EDC and Servotronic stopped working

[Rajmun340]

so they said they will call a regional engineer immediately to come to their dealer to look at my car, then the next day i'm told he won't be there until 1 month later.

[Helmsman]

Yeah, have kind of similar reaction here. What the tool doesnt see doesn exist...
I hope my dealer will have a puma case opened in the next week.

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by rantarM3

Regarding EDC not working, have you guys tried listening to the servos mounted atop the dampers to see if they make a sound when changing EDC settings? I have not tried this myself and have no idea if the servo motors make an audible noise when operating but it might be worth a shot. If they do make a sound, maybe there's something broken between the servo motor and the gearing that turns the adjusters on the dampers (e.g., maybe the gear somehow got stripped). Just throwing this out there to try and help.

Hi rantar, i just tried listening to clicks while someone pressed the EDC button. I tried with both the engine running and my ear as close as possible from the front two strut towers and also with the engine off but with all electrical system up (you have to press twice on START without pressing the brake pedal, then EDC button light switch works). In both cases i heard no clicks. Cycled through EDC comfort, normal, sport a few times.
Could you try on your car ?

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Yeah, have kind of similar reaction here. What the tool doesnt see doesn exist...
I hope my dealer will have a puma case opened in the next week.

Getting nowhere with the dealer. Very displeased by them trying to get out at every turn and fix nothing. Now I also found out i have cupped tires which i read is due to either bad shocks or bad tires. It's not the tires they're high-end Conti tires. I think it is the shocks, not the electronic. The electronic gets no feedback from shocks if they fail, and therefore no error codes is generated. Dealer did not even verify alignement and they probably never even removed wheels to inspect the shocks for leaks Been there twice already and it's a 45 min drive for me each way, so 3 hours total. I have the car back and it's not fixed.

[Helmsman]

Hey Joe, chatted with my dealer today. They have established a "puma" i.e. direct contact with BMW. WW data base checked, with NO similar issue found. Guys leaving for vacation now so next action will be end of July. As currently no clue they may on my suggestion start with re programming the module.
Even if my insurance will kick in and cover after $500 I don't look forward to them potentially taking the freaking car apart before they find the issue. Maybe.

That nobody else have had this issue on a system in production since 2008 is really strange. Been trying to convince myself that my EDC does work, to the point I'm checking tire pressure to see if I'm fooling myself. But no, the car has the same bloody stiffness regardless of mode...

Anything from your side yet?

Cheers

[rantarM3]

Originally Posted by JoeM3SSII

Hi rantar, i just tried listening to clicks while someone pressed the EDC button. I tried with both the engine running and my ear as close as possible from the front two strut towers and also with the engine off but with all electrical system up (you have to press twice on START without pressing the brake pedal, then EDC button light switch works). In both cases i heard no clicks. Cycled through EDC comfort, normal, sport a few times.
Could you try on your car ?

I tried as best I could without a second person and did not hear anything. When I get a chance, I'll try with someone going through the EDC stages and my listening under the hood. I looked at some pictures of the components and there may not actually be a motor that changes the modes but it is hard to tell from what I found (see: http://billswebspace.com/M3HRSpringInstallation).

On a side note, have you tried disconnecting the battery for say 30 minutes or so, and then reconnecting? If it is a software error I'd guess that letting all the control units fully power down and reboot might correct the issue. No?

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by rantarM3

I tried as best I could without a second person and did not hear anything. When I get a chance, I'll try with someone going through the EDC stages and my listening under the hood. I looked at some pictures of the components and there may not actually be a motor that changes the modes but it is hard to tell from what I found (see: http://billswebspace.com/M3HRSpringInstallation).

On a side note, have you tried disconnecting the battery for say 30 minutes or so, and then reconnecting? If it is a software error I'd guess that letting all the control units fully power down and reboot might correct the issue. No?

You can forget about trying to hear a click. Today i found the following tech note below that describes the EDC system in the E60, and it is a continuous adjustment, there are no discrete settings that you could hear switching. The EDC-K module drives all 4 solenoids in each shock with a variable DC current limited to 2 amps. It adjusts those currents continuously based on :

- road conditions
- selected edc mode
- DSC data
- 3 horizontal acceleration sensors, vertical acceleration sensors
- software maps
- "wear characteristics of each shock" (see last page)
- ...

“running time memory” in the EDC control unit must be reset if a shock is replaced."

"Current control of the solenoids stops below three mph" so we cannot test the current in the solenoids with the car parked.

%$#! adaptive software is probably used in programming EDC. I hate anything adaptive in a car's drivetrain.

I did not have that tech note information when i went to the dealer. He entirely reprogrammed my EDC-K module with the exception that he did not erase the time memory.

The dealer warned me that if we erase the time memory in the edc the tool would not return the setting to factory but to values based on the shocks running time. I am not sure what he was afraid of.

My car still feels permanently somewhere in between sport and normal. Not quite as stiff as how i remember sport when it worked but definitively not comfort.

then there is the servo steering mode showing no difference either. The servo uses an Electro Hydraulic concerter which is a solenoid that moves the valve in either position. For the shocks it is not an external part it is built inside the shocks.

My dealer only looked at the issue from an electronics point of view, found nothing, reprogrammed all but DSC. They did not bother to even look at possible leaks from shocks. That and erasing the EDC memory is what they have not tried.


http://thebimmerpub.com/pdf/2012/10oct/Earth-Shocks.pdf

[Helmsman]

Hey Joe, for sure the dampers are adaptiv, the idea and advantage with the system (where ZCP also is in Sport).
Apparently the dealer have an adapter which they put in between the damper and connector, will be doing this to check if there are any signals coming throught. Which probably not is the case, hard to believe all 4 dampers should have gone. From here I guess the module will be changed next. Will only find out end July.

Cheers

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Hey Joe, for sure the dampers are adaptiv, the idea and advantage with the system (where ZCP also is in Sport).
Apparently the dealer have an adapter which they put in between the damper and connector, will be doing this to check if there are any signals coming throught. Which probably not is the case, hard to believe all 4 dampers should have gone. From here I guess the module will be changed next. Will only find out end July.

Cheers

i saw that adapter cable part number in the tech note, i wonder why my dealer's foreman didn't try that. I even asked him if he could connect to each damper to test them individually and i had not even read that note. He said he couldn't do that. I guess that's lack of know how.

[Helmsman]

My guy said the interface is control signal only with no feedback from the damper. If so in theory something could be broken in the signaling although the EDC module still believe things are fine. Hence testing that signal is the next step.

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

My guy said the interface is control signal only with no feedback from the damper. If so in theory something could be broken in the signaling although the EDC module still believe things are fine. Hence testing that signal is the next step.

It depends on how the EDC driver analog circuit is implemented. But yes there is no logical feedback from the damper to the EDC-K module. The only electrical part in the damper is the solenoid, there is no intelligence or internal sensor. But the EDC is driving a PWM current through each solenoid. That current has to loop back to the EDC module negative supply. Usually this kind of driver can detect an electrical fault (short overcurrent or open in the coil).

There is the possibility that BMW didn't exploit the PWM driver fault detection in its software implementation and that the drivers part of the EDC board has failed. If no current goes to the coil, that's proof. But EDC automatically turns off < 3 mph. Unless there is a test mode ?

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

My guy said the interface is control signal only with no feedback from the damper. If so in theory something could be broken in the signaling although the EDC module still believe things are fine. Hence testing that signal is the next step.

Helmsman, Any update ??

cheers

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by JoeM3SSII

Helmsman, Any update ??

cheers

Hey Joe,

nope updates I'm afraid. Now scheduled for next dealer stop first week of August, don't believe much will happen before.
Still fiddling with the EDC back and forth as I simply can't grasp it went down, as one of the two in the whole bloody world...
Speaking about that, met with a mate over lunch who had his F10 520 AC breaking down. While the dealer said they "never seen that issue", he went to an indy who siad it is a very common issue on that model - wtf...

You, whats next step?

Cheers

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Hey Joe,

nope updates I'm afraid. Now scheduled for next dealer stop first week of August, don't believe much will happen before.
Still fiddling with the EDC back and forth as I simply can't grasp it went down, as one of the two in the whole bloody world...
Speaking about that, met with a mate over lunch who had his F10 520 AC breaking down. While the dealer said they "never seen that issue", he went to an indy who siad it is a very common issue on that model - wtf...

You, whats next step?

Cheers

no progress at all. no results. Car is no longer with the dealer.

[BzsBimmer]

Joe,
Would swapping of the EDC module with a different one work?

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by BzsBimmer

Joe,
Would swapping of the EDC module with a different one work?

That's a great idea in theory but finding another EDC module for a swap test is not easy. Also, it seems from the printout I received from the foreman who reprogrammed my EDC-K software that EDC-K gets a unique part number programmed by ECU.

But yes, i highly suspect the EDC module analog side drivers. The edc E60 tech note said it's a PWM (pulse width modulation) drive.

[Helmsman]

I actually bumped into a guy recently on a M meet who had converted his ZCP to a track car taking the complete suspension out (lift out engine and gear box for the chassies rebuild, serious guy). Offered me to buy the module. Will have that as a back up should BMW not solve it in August when scheduled to go back. However I'd be damned if they can't so holding the trigger.
Also not sure if a sinple swap is possible or if re-initiating would be required i.e. back to these grand dealers...

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

I actually bumped into a guy recently on a M meet who had converted his ZCP to a track car taking the complete suspension out (lift out engine and gear box for the chassies rebuild, serious guy). Offered me to buy the module. Will have that as a back up should BMW not solve it in August when scheduled to go back. However I'd be damned if they can't so holding the trigger.
Also not sure if a sinple swap is possible or if re-initiating would be required i.e. back to these grand dealers...

Helmsman. The odds are low that you can just swap the EDC-K module without reprogramming it. I have ISTA/P logs printouts from the reprogramming of my EDC-K. Two reasons for that : the EDC-K module is programmed through the ECU. And second, the ECU seems to assign a part number to EDC-K when done programming. If you swap another module, the ECU will immediately know and it may well suspend EDC operation and go to failsafe mode.

In the logs there is a line :

Control Unit Action Result/fault code status Hardware index Part number prog. ECU old Part number prog. ECU new

EDC-K Program P successful MAN 43 678xxx 678xxx

[Rajmun340]

Helmsman, how many miles do you have on your tires ? The reason i ask is that new tires thread gives additional cushion but tires with more wear (or tires with uneven wear) may increase road feel. I wonder if that may make it more difficult to detect the difference between edc comfort and sport. just a thought.

what is very perplexing is the servo. why would that also not work anymore with no error codes. I cannot find an answer.

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by JoeM3SSII

Helmsman. The odds are low that you can just swap the EDC-K module without reprogramming it. I have ISTA/P logs printouts from the reprogramming of my EDC-K. Two reasons for that : the EDC-K module is programmed through the ECU. And second, the ECU seems to assign a part number to EDC-K when done programming. If you swap another module, the ECU will immediately know and it may well suspend EDC operation and go to failsafe mode.

In the logs there is a line :

Control Unit Action Result/fault code status Hardware index Part number prog. ECU old Part number prog. ECU new

EDC-K Program P successful MAN 43 678xxx 678xxx

You can switch to another EDC module. As long as it's from the same variant E9x, it should work fine. The software is the same across all the platforms, there are variations in coding depending on options and style.

Not sure what you mean by EDC is programmed through the ECU... All body modules are programmed via OBD and go through the junction box. The "part number" can refer to the software version.

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

You can switch to another EDC module. As long as it's from the same variant E9x, it should work fine. The software is the same across all the platforms, there are variations in coding depending on options and style.

Not sure what you mean by EDC is programmed through the ECU... All body modules are programmed via OBD and go through the junction box. The "part number" can refer to the software version.

That would be good. but you are using the conditional "should", have you actually successfully swapped a module without reprogramming ?

What i meant is inferred from the ISTA/P report that shows several modules were reprogrammed through OBD and each has an old and new value with the label : "prog ECU old", "prog ECU new". I guess you're right those must be software versions. I am not sure what "ECU" means in that context, if it is DEM then what does DEM has to do with upgrading modules ?

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by JoeM3SSII

That would be good. but you are using the conditional "should", have you actually successfully swapped a module without reprogramming ?

What i meant is inferred from the ISTA/P report that shows several modules were reprogrammed through OBD and each has an old and new value with the label : "prog ECU old", "prog ECU new". I guess you're right those must be software versions. I am not sure what "ECU" means in that context, if it is DEM then what does DEM has to do with upgrading modules ?

Prog ECU old/new simply refers to the software version it had before programming and the software version flashed to it afterward.

Yes I have, and it appeared to work fine. I programmed it a week or so afterward.

What is DEM?