Track forum general chit chat.

[okusa]

Originally Posted by dogbone

So----you're saying you switched out the PS reservoir for a POS reservoir?

Sort of. I think I inadvertently switched out one POS reservoir for another!

[chamba002]

Weighed my 18x10.5 volks, less than 20lbs
[IMG]Untitled by Chamba, on Flickr[/IMG]

Then I got fresh meat... Nitto NT05 275/35/18
[IMG]Untitled by Chamba, on Flickr[/IMG]

[admranger]

Originally Posted by okusa

The problem I'm having is I'm now getting mid corner understeer on sweepers (turns 1 and 2 at WSIR and riverside and sweeper at BRP) at the limit. I've played with suspension settings but I haven't figured it out yet.

You can try some things to get rid of mid-corner understeer, but of all the problems to have, this is the best one (e.g., the car works everywhere else).

Have you checked to make sure you're not bottoming out the front outside shock on the corner? You can put a zip tie on the shock piston at the piston/body interface and then after a session you'll see how far up the piston towards your strut bearing it ends up. If you bottom out you'll hit the bump stops and increase your spring rate. Voila', push.

Too much front tire pressure (or, too little rear tire pressure) and maybe too much front roll stiffness (where's your roll bar at? your springs up front seem soft, maybe too soft given you're running aero -- the zip tie trick will tell you if you're too soft) can also be part of the problem.

Hope this gives you some ideas that you hadn't had a chance to try yet.

Your time at big Willow was very impressive. Having mid-corner understeer would be annoying through turns 1 and especially 2 (that corner takes forever...).

[roastbeef]

ok, i got one for you veterans... sunday was my first track day running race pads (ferodo dsuno) in my essex ap bbk/stainless lines). i'm running oem rear calipers/rotors/lines with ferodo ds2500 hybrid pads in the rear. castrol srf fluid.

sometimes if i'm on the brakes hard, i feel like one of the front wheels bites a little harder than the others. the car gets a little unsettled because of the bias and the power up front, but sometimes it feels or sounds like one of the front tires up front starts to screech, but i don't feel abs interference (i try to avoid abs, obviously). are you guys screeching and borderline activating abs?
the change from the ds2500's up front to the dsuno's wasn't as drastic as i though it would be. don't get me wrong, the brakes felt great- very consistent, firm pedal, etc. i was expecting a little more bite, but i don't know how much better it can get without activating abs.

[okusa]

Originally Posted by admranger

You can try some things to get rid of mid-corner understeer, but of all the problems to have, this is the best one (e.g., the car works everywhere else).

Have you checked to make sure you're not bottoming out the front outside shock on the corner? You can put a zip tie on the shock piston at the piston/body interface and then after a session you'll see how far up the piston towards your strut bearing it ends up. If you bottom out you'll hit the bump stops and increase your spring rate. Voila', push.

Too much front tire pressure (or, too little rear tire pressure) and maybe too much front roll stiffness (where's your roll bar at? your springs up front seem soft, maybe too soft given you're running aero -- the zip tie trick will tell you if you're too soft) can also be part of the problem.

Hope this gives you some ideas that you hadn't had a chance to try yet.

Your time at big Willow was very impressive. Having mid-corner understeer would be annoying through turns 1 and especially 2 (that corner takes forever...).

Wow that is some great insight!

I spoke with Casey at Racewerkz tonight and he offered much the same response. He definitely wants me to up my front springs from 550 to 650 and bring the front sway down to the lowest setting. He also suggested a little toe out up front (I run 0 currently) and then lowering my compression and rebound settings (I was nearly at full stiff in the rear and 2 clicks softer up front).

I will also try your zip tie trick as the instant feedback would be great.

Your tire pressure suggestion is great too. I run 295 square TDs but always start them all at the same psi.

Thanks for the compliment on the lap time. Makes me wonder what I could run there with fresh tires (my TDs were on day 3) and no understeer.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by elim11

@m3number86 redpriest What group are you guys running on Sat May 28,2016 for Autoclub

Green maybe red.

[DASm3]

Came across this website when ordering new track pads. Thought I would share considering I've never seen pricing this low for some of these pads, especially the pfc01's for the ST60's. I know they've been replaced by the 11's but most vendors are still selling them for $580+. Pagid yellows are also $40 cheaper than anywhere else I've seen.

Specifically looking at ST60 caliper size.

http://www.tmengineering.net/brakes/...ucts/pads.html

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by okusa

Wow that is some great insight!

I spoke with Casey at Racewerkz tonight and he offered much the same response. He definitely wants me to up my front springs from 550 to 650 and bring the front sway down to the lowest setting. He also suggested a little toe out up front (I run 0 currently) and then lowering my compression and rebound settings (I was nearly at full stiff in the rear and 2 clicks softer up front).

I will also try your zip tie trick as the instant feedback would be great.

Your tire pressure suggestion is great too. I run 295 square TDs but always start them all at the same psi.

Thanks for the compliment on the lap time. Makes me wonder what I could run there with fresh tires (my TDs were on day 3) and no understeer.

Hence was wondering about the low spring rate up front. Let us know how your new setup feels!

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

ok, i got one for you veterans... sunday was my first track day running race pads (ferodo dsuno) in my essex ap bbk/stainless lines). i'm running oem rear calipers/rotors/lines with ferodo ds2500 hybrid pads in the rear. castrol srf fluid.

sometimes if i'm on the brakes hard, i feel like one of the front wheels bites a little harder than the others. the car gets a little unsettled because of the bias and the power up front, but sometimes it feels or sounds like one of the front tires up front starts to screech, but i don't feel abs interference (i try to avoid abs, obviously). are you guys screeching and borderline activating abs?
the change from the ds2500's up front to the dsuno's wasn't as drastic as i though it would be. don't get me wrong, the brakes felt great- very consistent, firm pedal, etc. i was expecting a little more bite, but i don't know how much better it can get without activating abs.

How's your braking technique? Are you just slamming on them? Should be a slower firm progressive press of the pedal. This might help.

[///Mobbin]

Originally Posted by DASm3

Came across this website when ordering new track pads. Thought I would share considering I've never seen pricing this low for some of these pads, especially the pfc01's for the ST60's. I know they've been replaced by the 11's but most vendors are still selling them for $580+. Pagid yellows are also $40 cheaper than anywhere else I've seen.

Specifically looking at ST60 caliper size.

http://www.tmengineering.net/brakes/...ucts/pads.html

Those are some great prices, thanks for sharing!

I'm curious, can you skip bedding on PFC01's like you can on 08's w/o issue?

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

How's your braking technique? Are you just slamming on them? Should be a slower firm progressive press of the pedal. This might help.

I'm definitely not jabbing the pedal. Pressure is a smooth onset until I'm done braking, but sometimes the tire squeal or perceived tire slip causes me to back off.

[dbyrd]

Originally Posted by DASm3

Came across this website when ordering new track pads. Thought I would share considering I've never seen pricing this low for some of these pads, especially the pfc01's for the ST60's. I know they've been replaced by the 11's but most vendors are still selling them for $580+. Pagid yellows are also $40 cheaper than anywhere else I've seen.

Specifically looking at ST60 caliper size.

http://www.tmengineering.net/brakes/...ucts/pads.html

Definitely, great pricing for the PFCs, thanks, Daniel! I'm going to try Carbotech ST-12 for the front and ST-10 for the rear next. I've run the Pagids and like them just fine, but more expensive than the Carbotechs. I'm running Stoptech SR34s in the front now and I doubt I'll get more than 4 days out of them.

Hope to see you at TWS next month and in the garage at COTA in June!

[///Mobbin]

Originally Posted by dbyrd

Definitely, great pricing for the PFCs, thanks, Daniel! I'm going to try Carbotech ST-12 for the front and ST-10 for the rear next. I've run the Pagids and like them just fine, but more expensive than the Carbotechs. I'm running Stoptech SR34s in the front now and I doubt I'll get more than 4 days out of them.

Hope to see you at TWS next month and in the garage at COTA in June!

Bummer on the SR34s, that was going to be my next stop but the cost savings doesn't work out if they don't last. The ST-40 PFC-01 price on that site is pretty amazing so I may try those next.

Ya'll enjoy COTA this summer and come back in November, I plan to be there then!

[Kong Sheng Han]

I just realized my shoulder is higher than the top of my seat, causing my harness to go slightly up to reach my shoulder. Is this what leads to spine compression? During a recent 50 or so mile trip, I used the harness and my lower back was hurting after the trip; I assumed it was because I don't have lumbar support.

[okusa]

As promised, here is an overlay from 4/10/16 at Big Willow. The data is highly correlated in that:

1. both cars are supercharged E90s.
2. both cars went out together in the first session of the day, did the same number of warm up laps and then did two consecutive hot laps.
3. All hot laps were sub 1:30 (fastest of 1:27.5 and slowest of 1:29.4.

The blue lines are from the car (2009) with all OEM cooling units.

The grey lines are from the car (2011.75) with a CSF radiator, CSF DCT cooler and M24 oil cooler.

Many people have questioned why CSF has never posted real data rather than making useless claims about to how their units are X% "more efficient than OEM." I think the AIM data provides the answer.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by okusa

As promised, here is an overlay from 4/10/16 at Big Willow. The data is highly correlated in that:

1. both cars are supercharged E90s.
2. both cars went out together in the first session of the day, did the same number of warm up laps and then did two consecutive hot laps.
3. All hot laps were sub 1:30 (fastest of 1:27.5 and slowest of 1:29.4.

The blue lines are from the car (2009) with all OEM cooling units.

The grey lines are from the car (2011.75) with a CSF radiator, CSF DCT cooler and M24 oil cooler.

Many people have questioned why CSF has never posted real data rather than making useless claims about to how their units are X% "more efficient than OEM." I think the AIM data provides the answer.

So oem is cooler lol

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by Kong Sheng Han

I just realized my shoulder is higher than the top of my seat, causing my harness to go slightly up to reach my shoulder. Is this what leads to spine compression? During a recent 50 or so mile trip, I used the harness and my lower back was hurting after the trip; I assumed it was because I don't have lumbar support.

Yep

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by okusa

As promised, here is an overlay from 4/10/16 at Big Willow.

The blue lines are from the car (2009) with all OEM cooling units.

The grey lines are from the car (2011.75) with a CSF radiator, CSF DCT cooler and M24 oil cooler.

Many people have questioned why CSF has never posted real data rather than making useless claims about to how their units are X% "more efficient than OEM." I think the AIM data provides the answer.

I can chime in on this one since the Blue line is my car. I would find it difficult to find a better DIRECT comparison than this. To add to okusa's notes about the setup:

-Both cars are trailered to the track
-Both cars are supercharged with the same Vortech unit and have intercoolers.
-Both cars are DCT.
-Both cars have the same EAS-designed misting system that spray the same coolers.
-Both cars have the same splitter and wing
-Both cars have same JRZ suspension
-Both cars have the same AP Racing calipers and pads
-Both cars have AIM Solo DL's tied into the CAN bus
-It was the first session of the day for both cars
-We went out on track together
-We did the same number of warm up laps following each other
-The lap shown in the picture is the first hot lap of the day for both of us after the two warm up laps. (this means the 3rd lap of the day for both cars.)
-Our times were within 1.9 seconds of each other, with the faster time coming from the OEM cooled car which is showing lower temps.

The main differences in this situation are that my car is lighter because it's gutted/caged, so that should make it easier on my car. But, my car had grippier tires, so that should make it harder on my car. And I did run 1.9 seconds faster, which should also make it harder on my car because I was pushing higher speeds. So any potential ease from the lighter weight is generally being offset by the fact the tires had more grip and my time was almost 2 seconds faster.

Anyway, I agree with okusa's conclusions. You really do have to wonder why my OEM-cooled car ran cooler…….

[nholmes]

That data is pretty awesome. I guess I wasted $850.

[nholmes]

Originally Posted by CalSE

1M PS reservoir upgrade is useless. PS fluid still all over the place.

I kinda regret doing this now lol

At least I still have my original PS reservoir.

[okusa]

Originally Posted by nholmes

I kinda regret doing this now lol

At least I still have my original PS reservoir.

Since it's not vented I'm now wondering whether it's actually harmful for the system. Anyone have any insight?

[redpriest]

What do you guys make of this article?

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...Radiators.aspx

Yost ran this kit on the E92 race car so I'm not sure what to think. Do you think they ran cooler simply because the radiator was old?