67k rod bearings replaced!

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

Mpower, I wouldn't use engine noise as too much of an indicator of your bearing health. So much noise on here gets attributed to bearings but in reality most people never hear anything before failure, unless it is right before the failure. A properly seated bearing will not make a noise no matter the wear until it either gets thin enough to cause the rod to knock or it unseats and starts chattering before it spins. Either way, if you can hear it, it is usually too late. If you are worried, don't wait, especially if you notice a difference in the engine characteristics.

What's your oil report look like?

Personal I think 90-95 % of the people don't recognize S65 alarm noises or just don't care because I heard that too... when one was blown after I said take it to your BMW/Dealer ASAP and ended up with a black hole !
He was crying after it blew like a little child , and I said now it's too late...

I receive lots of S65 videos and the last 3 days from @SkypirateX...location US , And I heard a loud ticking noise in his PM video and for me personal it's not bearing ticking but like we hear a lot the ticking noise from the heat shield that's what BMW/Dealers are saying in the US ...But I never saw a fix of it when the heat shield was removed ?
And even that loud...Yes it's really loud, even that noise is his BMW/Dealer in the US not recognizing because they say it's the valve train noise, but sounds nowhere like my vave train .

In other words NEVER trust our BMW/Dealers because they really s@ck and if something happens the bill is for us , so they have time... !
So no choise is left and I trust only MY ears .
And I start to think also that this forum has a lot more knowledge than most BWM/Dealers do, because we can share S65 ticking, rattle or abnormal noises of the S65 , not to forget all the threads full of pics from bearing shit and BMW/Dealers have nothing...know nothing...even hear nothing because all is just normal for them !

Blackstone ? I never did , because my S65 was running just perfect ...never I heard suspicious noises , but now with my oil consumption and running rough at high rpm's I start to think otherwise and probably will take a oil sample on next oil change .
But think Blackstone proves nothing because I saw a few times a perfect Blackstone report and 2 weeks later ended up with BF ?
In other words...When something is wrong with my S65 I will probably know it before my BMW/Dealer because they know it only when it's too late..

Sad part of all this shit is the existance of all the bearing threads on here wich is proof that our S65 has a serious Worldwide problem !
So I'll go only with my ears and hope nothing else is required..

Of course I wish you the best of luck with yours .

[Sered]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

What do you know about the 335I? Have you owned one? Let me educate you bro. First of all the oem HPFP is ok for at least 50K miles, if you run 8lbs of boost like you should.

BMW did a recall because they were suffering for it and it was a defective part failing while in warranty. Notice how that's not the case anymore. The latest model HPFP units are pretty damn reliable.

Waterpumps were the same way. They go out like clockwork at about 60k miles.

My car was still going strong at 68k miles when I traded it in on my M3 (had a replaced HPFP and waterpump). Yup maintenance goes a long way, but it won't stop a defective part from failing. So you're implying that M3s fail due to lack of maintenance? You really can't be this stupid. MY point on the N54 was the motor itself isn't having any bearing issues despite significantly higher bearing load. Somehow you missed that and are equating a failing component (HPFP) with a failing engine assembly part (a bearing); that in itself tells me you're talking WAY above your knowledge base on cars. I'd suggest you sit out while the adults discuss things.

Well then they should all go buy a new C7 corvette. Just don't be surprised if your car doesn't even make it to 10K miles. Turns out making engines with tight tolerances on the bearings isn't easy. Car and driver randomly picked one out, and their engine blew at 6K miles. I just had a track day last week where one blew, and out of the total 6 6 total C7 vettes there, another one was there on a replaced motor. Yet go to their forums, and they're not crying or throwing childish hissy fits like you see on here. And if I had a dime for every time someone used "other car manufacturer's engines" as an argument on here.

LOL. Pointing out another engine that has bigger issues in no way diminishes 'lesser' issues that another car has. Leave the childish bs reasoning behind. Perhaps this is why you 'just don't get it' ? Makes a lot of sense now. You've now 'taken ownership' of your position on the bearing issue and you take it as a personal insult when people bash on the S65 motor. If I had a dime when someone made this argument... well I wouldn't have much money because only kids would say it and I don't talk to many kids about complex topics.

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

Ok so I won't address your N54 comment because at this point, you're just insulting the legacy of our motor. But I will address this slip up comment that you posted. Ok, so I find it funny that most of you hardcore supercharged M3 guys (you know the ones that post all the airport run way videos, and are the most respected members on here), don't change your bearings after supercharging. Instead you just supercharge the car, and rely on babying it for the motor to last. Yet, 9 out of ten times in these pre-supercharger bearing picture threads, you chime in, to support the guy doing it, and join in one side of the argument, and bash all the N/A guys on oem bearings.

IMHO, this is hypocrisy.

LOL. The legacy of your motor? It's another BMW that did recalls along with the S54 cars. It was an example. Didn't mean to hurt your little feefees. I guess you fail at reading comprehension; not surprising considering the level of your argument in the previous paragraph was 'someone has it worse therefore we don't have a real problem'.

Most supercharged cars change bearings either before or during. Trust me, I know a tad about supercharging S65s. About 10 installs under my belt with countless assists over email and plenty of trouble diagnosis on them. (15 years in 'the game' doesn't hurt either, can you even change your own oil?) I've seen enough of each to know its a problem with non-supercharged cars too but supercharging it does exacerbate the problem (which too-tight clearancing of bearings would have those EXACT symptoms).

You may want to look up what the word hypocrisy means. It's settled that bearing clearances are way too tight in this motor and its mostly accepted that the oil for the motor makes the problem worse, especially when the car is driven under 10 miles at a time after cold starts. Either way, bearings aren't supposed to look like that except maybe at 200-300k miles on normal production engines. I'd give it leeway since it is a performance motor, but too many cars have destroyed their engines or are about to. Ignoring this is just willful ignorance.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Personal I think 90-95 % of the people don't recognize S65 alarm noises or just don't care because I heard that too... when one was blown after I said take it to your BMW/Dealer ASAP and ended up with a black hole !
He was crying after it blew like a little child , and I said now it's too late...

I receive lots of S65 videos and the last 3 days from @SkypirateX...location US , And I heard a loud ticking noise in his PM video and for me personal it's not bearing ticking but like we hear a lot the ticking noise from the heat shield that's what BMW/Dealers are saying in the US ...But I never saw a fix of it when the heat shield was removed ?
And even that loud...Yes it's really loud, even that noise is his BMW/Dealer in the US not recognizing because they say it's the valve train noise, but sounds nowhere like my vave train .

In other words NEVER trust our BMW/Dealers because they really s@ck and if something happens the bill is for us , so they have time... !
So no choise is left and I trust only MY ears .
And I start to think also that this forum has a lot more knowledge than most BWM/Dealers do, because we can share S65 ticking, rattle or abnormal noises of the S65 , not to forget all the threads full of pics from bearing shit and BMW/Dealers have nothing...know nothing...even hear nothing because all is just normal for them !

Blackstone ? I never did , because my S65 was running just perfect ...never I heard suspicious noises , but now with my oil consumption and running rough at high rpm's I start to think otherwise and probably will take a oil sample on next oil change .
But think Blackstone proves nothing because I saw a few times a perfect Blackstone report and 2 weeks later ended up with BF ?
In other words...When something is wrong with my S65 I will probably know it before my BMW/Dealer because they know it only when it's too late..

Sad part of all this shit is the existance of all the bearing threads on here wich is proof that our S65 has a serious Worldwide problem !
So I'll go only with my ears and hope nothing else is required..

Of course I wish you the best of luck with yours .

I would disagree with you about blackstone. Sure a couple cars have had issues that didn't show as high wear metals in a blackstone report, but there are far too many factors at work to say that because blackstone didn't see an increase in wear metals, the test is useless. Perhaps whatever actually caused the failure in those cases was different in some way. Engines blow for all kinds of reasons outside of bearing failure. Blackstone will absolutely, 100% detect excess metals in their tests. That's all you can ask. If you see high lead and copper you know wear is taking place, but the absence of these metals isn't a guarantee against failure and there is no way an oil analysis can detect every failure. It doesn't mean it's not a valuable tool. It takes 10 minutes to drain a small amount of oil out and send it off. I wouldn't own this car without doing it.

[joneffingvo]

It's funny because the rod bearing issue reminds me of an issue C63 08-2011 (i had a 2009) guy's were facing with faulty head bolt's in M156 engine. Where the coolant and oil would mix and guys were blowing motors. Some people had problems and some didn't. However this was a WELL KNOWN problem which Mercedes quickly fixed in the 2012+ cars, but never issued a recall for guys that had the older models.

http://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w2...-problems.html

[marksae]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

I would disagree with you about blackstone. Sure a couple cars have had issues that didn't show as high wear metals in a blackstone report, but there are far too many factors at work to say that because blackstone didn't see an increase in wear metals, the test is useless. Perhaps whatever actually caused the failure in those cases was different in some way. Engines blow for all kinds of reasons outside of bearing failure. Blackstone will absolutely, 100% detect excess metals in their tests. That's all you can ask. If you see high lead and copper you know wear is taking place, but the absence of these metals isn't a guarantee against failure and there is no way an oil analysis can detect every failure. It doesn't mean it's not a valuable tool. It takes 10 minutes to drain a small amount of oil out and send it off. I wouldn't own this car without doing it.

Yeah, the Blackstone analysis reports are the most convenient tool most people have to gauge the health of their engine. While it's not 100% fool proof, it's definitely better than nothing. IMO, it's a great tool for monitoring the metal content trend of the engine.

The guy that had his engine fail after a good blackstone report bought his car used and only had one report. So there was no trend established. Perhaps previous reports would have identified an issue if he owned the car longer. We don't know.

As more guys are swapping out their bearings, we are slowly gaining insight into how the Blackstone reports are correlating with the bearing conditions.

Right now, I don't plan on changing my rod bearings on my 2009 until my lead count starts increasing. I'm hoping that by the time I need to change them, a solution will be found.

[tdott]

Originally Posted by Sered

BMW did a recall because they were suffering for it and it was a defective part failing while in warranty. Notice how that's not the case anymore. The latest model HPFP units are pretty damn reliable.

Waterpumps were the same way. They go out like clockwork at about 60k miles.

My car was still going strong at 68k miles when I traded it in on my M3 (had a replaced HPFP and waterpump). Yup maintenance goes a long way, but it won't stop a defective part from failing. So you're implying that M3s fail due to lack of maintenance? You really can't be this stupid. MY point on the N54 was the motor itself isn't having any bearing issues despite significantly higher bearing load. Somehow you missed that and are equating a failing component (HPFP) with a failing engine assembly part (a bearing); that in itself tells me you're talking WAY above your knowledge base on cars. I'd suggest you sit out while the adults discuss things.




LOL. Pointing out another engine that has bigger issues in no way diminishes 'lesser' issues that another car has. Leave the childish bs reasoning behind. Perhaps this is why you 'just don't get it' ? Makes a lot of sense now. You've now 'taken ownership' of your position on the bearing issue and you take it as a personal insult when people bash on the S65 motor. If I had a dime when someone made this argument... well I wouldn't have much money because only kids would say it and I don't talk to many kids about complex topics.



LOL. The legacy of your motor? It's another BMW that did recalls along with the S54 cars. It was an example. Didn't mean to hurt your little feefees. I guess you fail at reading comprehension; not surprising considering the level of your argument in the previous paragraph was 'someone has it worse therefore we don't have a real problem'.

Most supercharged cars change bearings either before or during. Trust me, I know a tad about supercharging S65s. About 10 installs under my belt with countless assists over email and plenty of trouble diagnosis on them. (15 years in 'the game' doesn't hurt either, can you even change your own oil?) I've seen enough of each to know its a problem with non-supercharged cars too but supercharging it does exacerbate the problem (which too-tight clearancing of bearings would have those EXACT symptoms).

You may want to look up what the word hypocrisy means. It's settled that bearing clearances are way too tight in this motor and its mostly accepted that the oil for the motor makes the problem worse, especially when the car is driven under 10 miles at a time after cold starts. Either way, bearings aren't supposed to look like that except maybe at 200-300k miles on normal production engines. I'd give it leeway since it is a performance motor, but too many cars have destroyed their engines or are about to. Ignoring this is just willful ignorance.

Goodluck on your fight to get a recall done. You clearly know everything.

[joneffingvo]

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=*******

rod bearing?

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by marksae

Yeah, the Blackstone analysis reports are the most convenient tool most people have to gauge the health of their engine. While it's not 100% fool proof, it's definitely better than nothing. IMO, it's a great tool for monitoring the metal content trend of the engine.

The guy that had his engine fail after a good blackstone report bought his car used and only had one report. So there was no trend established. Perhaps previous reports would have identified an issue if he owned the car longer. We don't know.

As more guys are swapping out their bearings, we are slowly gaining insight into how the Blackstone reports are correlating with the bearing conditions.

Right now, I don't plan on changing my rod bearings on my 2009 until my lead count starts increasing. I'm hoping that by the time I need to change them, a solution will be found.

Black stone should be a reasonable indicator for the early models that had lead bearings. Apparently no lead after mid 2010.

[Amirsm3]

Originally Posted by joneffingvo

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=*******

rod bearing?

could be a bunch of things, tbh.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by Sered

BMW did a recall because they were suffering for it and it was a defective part failing while in warranty. Notice how that's not the case anymore. The latest model HPFP units are pretty damn reliable.

Really? Which part number? Get specific guy. We've seen ALL fail, including the latest ones on the F80/82

Originally Posted by Sered

Waterpumps were the same way. They go out like clockwork at about 60k miles.

Mine went out at 88K miles, and my car was run at the track beginning at 38K miles. The average life expectancy for the 335I electronic, stand alone, map based water pump is 80K miles. Just exposing your ignorance here.

Originally Posted by Sered

My car was still going strong at 68k miles when I traded it in on my M3 (had a replaced HPFP and waterpump). Yup maintenance goes a long way, but it won't stop a defective part from failing. So you're implying that M3s fail due to lack of maintenance? You really can't be this stupid.

Childish insults don't go over well with me, or the moderators. I'm implying that changing your oil whenever the oil analyzer sez it's done, i.e dealership planned obsolescence (look up this term to better educate yourself), is a bad idea for you.

Originally Posted by Sered

MY point on the N54 was the motor itself isn't having any bearing issues despite significantly higher bearing load.

You are exposing your ignorance on engines. The rpm redline on the N54 is 6,800rpms. The rpm redline on the S65 is 8,400rpms. BIG DIFFERENCE, in terms of "bearing load"

Originally Posted by Sered

Somehow you missed that and are equating a failing component (HPFP) with a failing engine assembly part (a bearing); that in itself tells me you're talking WAY above your knowledge base on cars. I'd suggest you sit out while the adults discuss things.

No, you missed my point, because of your poor reading comprehension skills. I'm equating a failed engine component (bearings), with a failed turbo component (bearings), and trying in vein to make you realize, that high oil change intervals, are bad for bearings.

Originally Posted by Sered

LOL. Pointing out another engine that has bigger issues in no way diminishes 'lesser' issues that another car has. Leave the childish bs reasoning behind. Perhaps this is why you 'just don't get it' ? Makes a lot of sense now. You've now 'taken ownership' of your position on the bearing issue and you take it as a personal insult when people bash on the S65 motor. If I had a dime when someone made this argument... well I wouldn't have much money because only kids would say it and I don't talk to many kids about complex topics.

Your just new to these arguments guy. If I had a dime for every time some childish troll, came on here to compare other cars to the E9X M3 like you just did, I'd be rich. It's just poetic justice that guys like you are now getting a taste of your own medicine with other car companies making bearings with tight tolerances, now seeing failure rates much, much higher than BMW.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by Sered

LOL. The legacy of your motor? It's another BMW that did recalls along with the S54 cars. It was an example. Didn't mean to hurt your little feefees. I guess you fail at reading comprehension; not surprising considering the level of your argument in the previous paragraph was 'someone has it worse therefore we don't have a real problem'. .

Again, terrible reading comprehension skills. I was referring to the N54, not the S65. You're crapping on that engine's legacy by continuing to bring up distorted facts about it.

Originally Posted by Sered

Most supercharged cars change bearings either before or during. Trust me, I know a tad about supercharging S65s. About 10 installs under my belt with countless assists over email and plenty of trouble diagnosis on them. (15 years in 'the game' doesn't hurt either, can you even change your own oil?) I've seen enough of each to know its a problem with non-supercharged cars too but supercharging it does exacerbate the problem (which too-tight clearancing of bearings would have those EXACT symptoms)

You didn't change yours though, so what's your point?

Originally Posted by Sered

You may want to look up what the word hypocrisy means. It's settled that bearing clearances are way too tight in this motor and its mostly accepted that the oil for the motor makes the problem worse, especially when the car is driven under 10 miles at a time after cold starts. Either way, bearings aren't supposed to look like that except maybe at 200-300k miles on normal production engines. I'd give it leeway since it is a performance motor, but too many cars have destroyed their engines or are about to. Ignoring this is just willful ignorance.

Again, are these "normal production engines" high rpm redline, race engines? and thanks for your theory on bearing failure which is nothing you can't read on this forum from regular folks. You claim to be a mechanic, who has installed countless superchargers, but it's still no excuse for terrible reading comprehension skills, which last time I checked, was at least taught in High School. This combined with your childish insults will now earn you a big ignore from me, so don't bother typing up a troll response, as it will never again be responded to.

[Doc Oc]

other car companies making bearings with tight tolerances, now seeing failure rates much, much higher than BMW.
--------
Mind quantifying this?

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

other car companies making bearings with tight tolerances, now seeing failure rates much, much higher than BMW.
--------
Mind quantifying this?

I'm done with this bearing cat fight thread. Look up the C7 corvettes, and new Ford mustangs, and do your own research.

[squartus]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

Well first of all, I bought the car at 95k miles, but so much for paying attention to detail. Since then more than a year ago, I've put 25K miles, and 7 full track days in the advanced group. We're not talking going to the drag strip just once like you, circuit racing is something different entirely.




Firstly, It's You're a troll, not your a troll, and secondly, a quick search on the 10 or so glorious threads you've started reveal nothing interesting or diverse at all, the highlight of which is: "Noobie at the dragstrip, need some advice" No threads on Maintenance, Tracking, or even just basic install advise on the supercharger. Nothing whatsoever. And you're calling me a troll?

So lets see, you Troll me on my grammar "didn't take long" who with a valid response does that anyway??
2nd you claim I'm a troll because I do not start new threads on information thats pinned and plastered all over the forums? Why would I?? Other than being a self important ass.
Hell I even gave my review on the DSS carbon fiber drive shaft I installed on a current DS thread. Which Im pretty sure was the first on an e92 M3 since mine was the first made and shipped.
Oh and Troll me for asking for Drag Strip advice?? Iv never launched at one, I have no issue asking for advice when I am not familiar with something. Nothing wrong with being humble, something you should make yourself very familiar with.
Exactly what IS your problem with people having bearing wear and blown engines?? Does it affect you on a personal level, have you talked yourself into a corner so you have no choice but to continue spouting nonsense? Just do everyone on the bearing threads a favor and stop, last thing your doing is helping anyone.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

I'm done with this bearing cat fight thread. Look up the C7 corvettes, and new Ford mustangs, and do your own research.

I was just wondering how you determined they were blowing up at a much faster rate? Give us some data, as you are always asking for. Otherwise it is just kindergarten, as you say.

[chris719]

Just ignore Killerfish. He's a troll. All you really need to know to identify that fact is that is he's a N54 HPFP denier as well! Not even a paid shill from BMW would defend that part. They failed in the thousands on completely stock cars with some well under 30k miles.

Are there any moderators here? All this guy is doing is thread crapping since he doesn't agree with the mounting evidence. Probably doesn't want to see his resale value go down.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by joneffingvo

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=*******

rod bearing?

Tomorrow => Tuesday september 8 he needs to return to his BMW/Dealer and probably we will know more because he said I'll update my thread with news about my S65 .