Rod Bearings Pics From High Mileage 2011.75

[Ashley Schaeffer BMW]

So is the new m3post suggested maintenance oils changes every 3k and swap the bearings every 40k miles?

What happens if you are in the 99% that have a "good car" and you go and fuck it up by putting in different bearings?

Will be interesting to see the forum response when those engines start blowing in 20-30k miles.


This is what happens when guys buy too much car for them.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by Ashley Schaeffer BMW

So is the new m3post suggested maintenance oils changes every 3k and swap the bearings every 40k miles?

What happens if you are in the 99% that have a "good car" and you go and fuck it up by putting in different bearings?

Will be interesting to see the forum response when those engines start blowing in 20-30k miles.


This is what happens when guys buy too much car for them.

I was very worried about doing my car for that very reason. If my bearings came out spotless then I just fucked up a good thing. My fear disappeared when I saw copper exposed on every upper and all parting lines.

Your last sentence is laughable though. I've owned 5 different highly modified cars ranging in price up to 40k or so. This 414 hp 30k car should be a breeze....but it isn't. This is what happens when people won't pull their heads out of the sand even when dealers and Indy shops across the country are encountering the issue far more often than they should be. I've pumped ridiculous amounts of boost through Corvettes, Supra TT's, 300 turbos, and even a Ford lightning. Never once encountered a bearing issue nor ever even heard of one on any of the forums. Although engines blew here and there it was never attributed to rb's. Any level of bearing wear on a stock vehicle indicates a problem. It might be minor enough that the engine is never affected, or maybe goes 150k miles, or may be bad enough that an engine blows at 13k. That's why bearings have Babbitt, so if there is a problem it doesn't destroy your crank, but in a healthy engine their should be no metal to metal contact.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by Ashley Schaeffer BMW

So is the new m3post suggested maintenance oils changes every 3k and swap the bearings every 40k miles?

What happens if you are in the 99% that have a "good car" and you go and fuck it up by putting in different bearings?

Will be interesting to see the forum response when those engines start blowing in 20-30k miles.


This is what happens when guys buy too much car for them.

I've followed car forum culture for 15 years. Those type of guys never report back when things go wrong. They are just primarily on here to stroke their egos, and show off their setups.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

Your last sentence is laughable though. I've owned 5 different highly modified cars ranging in price up to 40k or so. This 414 hp 30k car should be a breeze....but it isn't. This is what happens when people won't pull their heads out of the sand even when dealers and Indy shops across the country are encountering the issue far more often than they should be. I've pumped ridiculous amounts of boost through Corvettes, Supra TT's, 300 turbos, and even a Ford lightning. Never once encountered a bearing issue nor ever even heard of one on any of the forums. Although engines blew here and there it was never attributed to rb's. Any level of bearing wear on a stock vehicle indicates a problem. It might be minor enough that the engine is never affected, or maybe goes 150k miles, or may be bad enough that an engine blows at 13k. That's why bearings have Babbitt, so if there is a problem it doesn't destroy your crank, but in a healthy engine their should be no metal to metal contact.

You just won't give it a rest? Keep on cross comparing vehicles with different engines, and ownership maintenance habbits. I'd love to see any of the above mentioned vehicles change oil every 15K miles, with 10W60, and keep running. Most of those cars won't even rev with oil that thick. I haven't seen a vette rev past 6,500 rpms, so what kind of bearing stress are you putting on that big block?

What's annoying is to read daily threads on bearing swaps, all in bold entitled: "High mileage!", when there are guys like myself on here with more than double the alleged "High Miles" And if it's not just a big cry for attention, then why not post your preventative maintenance move in the appropriate maintenance sub forum? Why come to the engine modification section, to scare up thread views from those looking to enjoy their car's performance?

[squartus]

Why brag about having a high milage M3 when you bought it with over 90k already on the car, its already past its "danger zone" if was going to blow it would of done it by now.
Now like most people with miles below 70k its a huge worry, you just dont know if your riding on borrowed time or not. How many pulled bearings with horried wear down through the copper with low miles do you need to see before you pull your head out of your ass and go hey.... Some of these cars engines are having some serious problems!!!

Mine sure was, saw the bearings with my own eyes. Ill take cold hard facts over some guy bashing people for being worried. Worried with good cause.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

You just won't give it a rest? Keep on cross comparing vehicles with different engines, and ownership maintenance habbits. I'd love to see any of the above mentioned vehicles change oil every 15K miles, with 10W60, and keep running. Most of those cars won't even rev with oil that thick. I haven't seen a vette rev past 6,500 rpms, so what kind of bearing stress are you putting on that big block?

What's annoying is to read daily threads on bearing swaps, all in bold entitled: "High mileage!", when there are guys like myself on here with more than double the alleged "High Miles" And if it's not just a big cry for attention, then why not post your preventative maintenance move in the appropriate maintenance sub forum? Why come to the engine modification section, to scare up thread views from those looking to enjoy their car's performance?

I posted in the engine modification section because swapping your stock bearings for VAC racing bearings is an engine modification. Seems appropriate to me.

And isn't jacking bearing threads and telling people what a waste of time it is to swap bearings (because your car is proof that it is unnecessary) done for attention? I'm 42 years old and don't give two shits what strangers on a car forum think of me. The only attention I'm interested in getting is from BMW.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by squartus

Why brag about having a high milage M3 when you bought it with over 90k already on the car, its already past its "danger zone" if was going to blow it would of done it by now.
Now like most people with miles below 70k its a huge worry, you just dont know if your riding on borrowed time or not. How many pulled bearings with horried wear down through the copper with low miles do you need to see before you pull your head out of your ass and go hey.... Some of these cars engines are having some serious problems!!!

Mine sure was, saw the bearings with my own eyes. Ill take cold hard facts over some guy bashing people for being worried. Worried with good cause.

What would really be funny is if the previous owners swapped the bearings before they bought their cars and now they are on here using them as an example of how well the stock bearings hold up to high miles.

[Icecreamfoo]

Originally Posted by Mr. Liu

Where is the information about exactly when the switch over to non lead bearings occured? My 2011 was built in June 2010 as a 2011 model, still trying to figure out if I have lead based or not.

oh right, 2011 was a much longer-than-usual model year (I was just reminded that myself after my swap). no definitive answer on exactly when production switch date is, but from past read/posts here I seem to recall people saying it was mid 2011. Gosh I hope I wasn't too far off base here

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

We should definitely drive the car and not let it rule is but also, something as easy as a inspecting/changing the bearings as a maintenance item could save your engine! God knows lots have failed, we have seen the photos/threads.

Anyhow, your statement of hearing the exhaust sound change because of an engine oil is laughable! That is impossible, you need to think about this rationally, you saw less lead from 0W40 but you are now running TWS again because of a change in exhaust sound that was all in your head. I think by reading your posts you actually are letting this get you crazier than the guys that just choose to swap their bearings for peace of mind and keep driving their cars.

I obviously am one of the believers that proper clearance on the rod bearings will rectify any issue the S65/S85 is having with accelerated bearing wear. One could either buy the VAC added clearance bearings, the WPC bearings or wait for the custom Clevite bearings that should be available in October and install them and ensure their engine lives a long life. Option two is they could come on here and hijack threads saying they are sick of this shit and people are all crazy but the risk of their engine blowing up is still there, and it is actually greater because they choose not to be proactive and listen to people that know engines who are trying to help them save theirs. Take your pick which one you want to be.

Look my friend. I appreciate your experience and your engine building knowledge. You may be right ... at the time of my swap back to TWS, I was having very rough idle as well as acceleration issues, and in fact it was noted by my service manager too. It continued for at least a couple of days, and the exhaust note was totally different. Then it all went. I think it was something to do with a bad batch of fuel or something else. I panicked and the obvious thing that came my mind was the major change I had made, that's swapping to M1. I may go back to M1 in the future. I just don't want to dump fresh TWS oil.

As I have claimed before I am no expert on any of these, and one who is also being swept by this whole BF. You may laugh all you want, at the end of the day it's my car and I made a judgement call based on what I had at hand. Period.

Just because you're an expert doesn't mean that you laugh at other's expense. Being faceless on the forum doesn't mean that you ridicule others. No offence.

[aussiem3]

I also think running TWS for longer periods will be good, given that it breaks down and the reduces the viscosity. If one is constantly changing oil, say every 6k km, the viscosity stays high and wear at start up, which is the main issue here, will be high too. So I think, leaving it for longer may minimize the wear given TWS is getting thinner. This applies only to those running TWS and not M1. Just a thought!

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by aussiem3

I also think running TWS for longer periods will be good, given that it breaks down and the reduces the viscosity. If one is constantly changing oil, say every 6k km, the viscosity stays high and wear at start up, which is the main issue here, will be high too. So I think, leaving it for longer may minimize the wear given TWS is getting thinner. This applies only to those running TWS and not M1. Just a thought!

You've been here way longer than me but I swear I read that the TWS shears very quickly, something like within the first couple hundred miles.

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

You've been here way longer than me but I swear I read that the TWS shears very quickly, something like within the first 500 miles.

I haven't come across that info to be honest. Isn't it good? At least it will be thicker than M1, and have a middle-level viscosity. Aren't we arguing about viscosity here to complement the clearance? So if TWS is way too thick when new, and if it shears, isn't it a win-win, rather than compromising with a way too thin M1? Look, I am no expert, just a theory, and I cannot claim originality of it. Someone I know associated with BMW raised it with me, hence I am putting it out there. People like Kawasaki can chime in.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by aussiem3

I haven't come across that info to be honest. Isn't it good? At least it will be thicker than M1, and have a middle-level viscosity. Aren't we arguing about viscosity here to complement the clearance? So if TWS is way too thick when new, and if it shears, isn't it a win-win, rather than compromising with a way too thin M1? Look, I am no expert, just a theory, and I cannot claim originality of it. Someone I know associated with BMW raised it with me, hence I am putting it out there. People like Kawasaki can chime in.

I'm certainly not the person to ask about that, I was just commenting on the idea of going longer because of shearing. A quick search netted this:

TWS 10w-60 can shear to 17.5 CSt at 100C within 50 miles of installation and will stay there for about 12k miles.

I imagine that's a good thing but I'd never run an oil even half that length of time. Most people I've spoken with outside of this forum think the oci is more of an issue than clearance, but who knows? That doesn't explain why some engines have issues very soon after being put into service.

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

I'm certainly not the person to ask about that, I was just commenting on the idea of going longer because of shearing. A quick search netted this:

TWS 10w-60 can shear to 17.5 CSt at 100C within 50 miles of installation and will stay there for about 12k miles.

I imagine that's a good thing but I'd never run an oil even half that length of time. Most people I've spoken with outside of this forum think the oci is more of an issue than clearance, but who knows? That doesn't explain why some engines have issues very soon after being put into service.

Exactly my point in a few post before. There is no definitive answer to this issue. Hence all the more reason to enjoy the car than worry about what may be.

I am no expert on anything when it comes to cars. This forum and the DIY section has educated me a lot. In fact my car hasn't seen the dealer since it came out of warranty. I do my oil changes, including the spark plug change. Hoping to do the TVA replacement soon. Money in my pocket is better than someone else's.

[Doc Oc]

My phone won't allow me to use the search function. What is the tva replacement? Or did you mean TBA?

[PerfM5]

OP I spun my bearing last year so this is near and dear to me. A bit of a background, my father and grand father were machinist and built / rebuilt engines my whole life. At no point were bearings considered a wear item in our family.

Word of advise to all the "experts" here: if you haven't experienced any issues with your M, please enjoy the hell out of it. Thats why we all get these cars and join these forums. We keep our community alive with our experiences and provide information to help others. Please don't get on the forum to knock others who are spending their hard earned money to do added preventative maintenance. If your car isn't acting up then great!

I've experienced all known E9x M3 issues:
Bad ICV - replaced under extended warranty
Spun 2 bearings / destroyed crankshaft - New 2013 crate motor thanks again to extended warranty!
Multiple suspension issues - replaced by extended warranty
A/C Blower motor fried - replaced by extended warranty
Multiple coil failed - all 8 replaced by extended warranty
May 2, 2015 extended warranty runs out... May 12 '15 bank 1 throttle actuator goes, Changed both for 2K - you gotta pay to play.

Even with all these issues i never gave up or became negative. It's a learning opportunity. At the end of the day my advise is get into something you can afford the maintenance on. (Just because you can buy a 996 911 turbo for $40K doesn't mean you should, but more importunely make sure you if you do you have the proper coverage!!!) I bought my 2008 M3 for 30K in 2013. Only reason I did was because it included an excellent extended warranty. My risk was minimal and I spent the rest of my money refreshing all the first owners neglect.

All work done at PitStop Motor Tuning in Glendale. Herb's the man! Even he was a bearing sceptic until this adventure..

Moral of the story. If you don't have anything valuable to add to a threat respectfully... STFU!

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

My phone won't allow me to use the search function. What is the tva replacement? Or did you mean TBA?

Throttle Valve Actuator. They are prone to failure, and I've been getting intermittent error codes. Time to change.

[Ashley Schaeffer BMW]

Originally Posted by PERFM3

OP I spun my bearing last year so this is near and dear to me. A bit of a background, my father and grand father were machinist and built / rebuilt engines my whole life. At no point were bearings considered a wear item in our family.

Word of advise to all the "experts" here: if you haven't experienced any issues with your M, please enjoy the hell out of it. Thats why we all get these cars and join these forums. We keep our community alive with our experiences and provide information to help others. Please don't get on the forum to knock others who are spending their hard earned money to do added preventative maintenance. If your car isn't acting up then great!

I've experienced all known E9x M3 issues:
Bad ICV - replaced under extended warranty
Spun 2 bearings / destroyed crankshaft - New 2013 crate motor thanks again to extended warranty!
Multiple suspension issues - replaced by extended warranty
A/C Blower motor fried - replaced by extended warranty
Multiple coil failed - all 8 replaced by extended warranty
May 2, 2015 extended warranty runs out... May 12 '15 bank 1 throttle actuator goes, Changed both for 2K - you gotta pay to play.

Even with all these issues i never gave up or became negative. It's a learning opportunity. At the end of the day my advise is get into something you can afford the maintenance on. (Just because you can buy a 996 911 turbo for $40K doesn't mean you should, but more importunely make sure you if you do you have the proper coverage!!!) I bought my 2008 M3 for 30K in 2013. Only reason I did was because it included an excellent extended warranty. My risk was minimal and I spent the rest of my money refreshing all the first owners neglect.

All work done at PitStop Motor Tuning in Glendale. Herb's the man! Even he was a bearing sceptic until this adventure..

Moral of the story. If you don't have anything valuable to add to a threat respectfully... STFU!

Or in other words..... Anything that hurts your precious feelings.

Lots of guys here have been driving M's a lot longer than "since 2013". I think you could learn a thing or two by reading more and posting less. The longevity of these "aftermarket" bearings haven't been tested yet. They could blow more engines than they save by messing with OEM standards. To call it preventative maintenance at this stage is a stretch. More like experimenting with your motor.

Moral of the story...... You don't know what you're talking about.

Do you own stock in the company pushing these bearings on the forum?

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by Ashley Schaeffer BMW

Or in other words..... Anything that hurts your precious feelings.

Lots of guys here have been driving M's a lot longer than "since 2013". I think you could learn a thing or two by reading more and posting less. The longevity of these "aftermarket" bearings haven't been tested yet. They could blow more engines than they save by messing with OEM standards. To call it preventative maintenance at this stage is a stretch. More like experimenting with your motor.

Moral of the story...... You don't know what you're talking about.

Do you own stock in the company pushing these bearings on the forum?

There are no other bearings for sale yet besides the VAC bearings, or OEM WPC treated bearings. Besides, even when the new added clearance clevite bearings do become available, no one will be getting rich off of them. There are only 400 sets being made in the beginning and after all of the legwork and testing is done there may be only $50 or $100 per set to be made. This may be hard for you to believe but these bearings were made as a service to the community nothing else, any profit will just compensate those involved in getting this off of the ground.

P.S.: BMW hardly has a good record with rod bearings. Does the E46 M3 recall ring a bell.

[PerfM5]

Originally Posted by Ashley Schaeffer BMW

Or in other words..... Anything that hurts your precious feelings.

Lots of guys here have been driving M's a lot longer than "since 2013". I think you could learn a thing or two by reading more and posting less. The longevity of these "aftermarket" bearings haven't been tested yet. They could blow more engines than they save by messing with OEM standards. To call it preventative maintenance at this stage is a stretch. More like experimenting with your motor.

Moral of the story...... You don't know what you're talking about.

Do you own stock in the company pushing these bearings on the forum?

Oh boy, we have another one with their head in the sand!!

This has nothing to do with owning stock or being compensated monetarily to promote a fictitious catastrophic failure. Nor is it about the solution provided by afterwork manufacturers. I sure as shit am not sponsored by any OEM!

I didn't buy my second M3 to modify the engine internals just for it to function on a daily bases. Point is bearings are not a wear item; PERIOD! Which you casually missed! Are you saying an engine needs to be torn down on a ____ mile increment? Are you kidding me? $2K plus bearing replacement is not an adder for standard maintenance, better yet $25K for a replacement long block is no joke! What is your point exactly? That all of us who experienced these issues are what... Crazy? making it up? causing the same issue? all have forced induction that are keeping it a secret?

I personally have experienced it all and kept it pretty quite for the most part. The point of these threads are to compare notes and hopefully someone from the factory is here to see what we're all experiencing. IT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED BY BMW.

I'm in the electronic industry, if any of my OEM's had 10% defect rate due to the same exact malfunction, there would have been a recall long ago!

[Scrippy]

OP they do look used. I have a 2011 build and I did mine as well. 70-80% of your bearing surface is scratched 180 degrees apart. Everyone here will say the S65 is loud and play it off but it is necessary service for these motors.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by Ashley Schaeffer BMW

Or in other words..... Anything that hurts your precious feelings.

Lots of guys here have been driving M's a lot longer than "since 2013". I think you could learn a thing or two by reading more and posting less. The longevity of these "aftermarket" bearings haven't been tested yet. They could blow more engines than they save by messing with OEM standards. To call it preventative maintenance at this stage is a stretch. More like experimenting with your motor.

Moral of the story...... You don't know what you're talking about.

Do you own stock in the company pushing these bearings on the forum?

So a guy whose had to replace his engine due to bf and comes from a family of engine builders doesn't know what he's talking about, but a guy whose never had his oil pan off does because his car is over 100k miles? As Chris Carter would say, c'mon man. It's not like he's quoting failure numbers or trying rile people up. Just reporting his experiences. I think, like me, he's pissed this had to be done on a stock or near stock vehicle.