Dyno too rich VT2-625 .

[Weyne Masters]

I'm a Brazilian customers and a couple moths ago I bought the VT2-625 for M3 e9x,so after my first Dyno section we had 520WHP(too LOW) STD temperature was 95F and the altitude 100ft,the Dynojet .
So the boost pressure was 8PSI,
Fuel ratio was 11,03 /11,17 on read line
Fuel grade 95 AKI
So the mechanics ask me if it's possible to set little beat lean,around 11,79 ,and remanning on safety zone?
So they believe around 11,79 a car may push more HORSE power.

[JEllis]

520 WHP is not horrible for that kit and conditions. Certainly not worth decreasing your safety margin but I will let the dyno experts chime in.

[8k3]

What was the SAE result? That corrects for conditions. If that car is running hot (and 95 air temp is a bit hot out) it may run a bit rich. 520hp when very hot (don't know what your IAT was) isn't too bad at all. You aren't going to make a ton more power going from 11.17 to 11.79 I don't think, target is just under 12

[Sered]

Originally Posted by Weyne Masters

I'm a Brazilian customers and a couple moths ago I bought the VT2-625 for M3 e9x,so after my first Dyno section we had 520WHP(too LOW) STD temperature was 95F and the altitude 100ft,the Dynojet .
So the boost pressure was 8PSI,
Fuel ratio was 11,03 /11,17 on read line
Fuel grade 95 AKI
So the mechanics ask me if it's possible to set little beat lean,around 11,79 ,and remanning on safety zone?
So they believe around 11,79 a car may push more HORSE power.

520whp on a dynojet is about what you should be making on a 625 kit. You're not going to be able to lean out your car without a re-flash. Target AFRs are around 12 to 12.5:1; you may be running richer because its so hot and the DME is targeting richer AFR for that reason.

[MFL]

If i were you, i'd set up bmwlogger and see what your AFR's are actually reading.

[LIMITLESS_M3]

The S65 seems to be natively running too rich ratios but yet, it takes a long time for the oil to reach normal operating temperature in street driving. Isn't that a design choice contradiction (engine running too rich most of the time, even when it doesn't need it) ?

[bigjae1976]

Most tuners will err on the side of rich in s/c'd applications. Also could be an indication of the knock sensors saving the engine by dumping fuel.

I'd investigate...maybe see what the knock sensors are doing. Running rich is, by no means, a totally safe thing.

[Sered]

Originally Posted by LIMITLESS_M3

The S65 seems to be natively running too rich ratios but yet, it takes a long time for the oil to reach normal operating temperature in street driving. Isn't that a design choice contradiction (engine running too rich most of the time, even when it doesn't need it) ?

Uh the S65 runs 14.7:1 in normal driving. You shouldn't be going WOT unless the oil temps are warmed up.

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Most tuners will err on the side of rich in s/c'd applications. Also could be an indication of the knock sensors saving the engine by dumping fuel.

I'd investigate...maybe see what the knock sensors are doing. Running rich is, by no means, a totally safe thing.

There are no knock sensors, it uses a different system. You can see the result of knock or false knock by watching the ignition timing.

[Weyne Masters]

How could I know the engine timing ?

[8k3]

Originally Posted by Weyne Masters

How could I know the engine timing ?

Data logging via obd2, tools like Bavarian Technic can do it

[Weyne Masters]

How about to use meth?

[8k3]

Originally Posted by Weyne Masters

How about to use meth?

No exactly easy to set up. If you are looking for power a single nozzle might not make any power. It isn't a bad tool perhaps to lower IAT but I haven't experimented myself.

See Longboarder's attempt here
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=875549

You seem to have just installed your kit. Run good fuel, try to avoid very high concentrations of ethanol fuel, run 93 or better if you can and enjoy it. 520hp is a lot of wheel power

[Weyne Masters]

My car has decats, and I realy apwant to tunning the AFR up to 11,9,and after that think about to meth,I realy Want to goof up to 580wrp,it's realy easy to find 95AKI gas around me.
Last Friday I sent a email to ESS Software department,and asked to lean the software may be the car goes up to 560WRP with new AFR.

[Sered]

Target afr is already in the 12:1 range. If it's running rich then I'd guess it was because it was so hot and the DME reacted that way.

[Weyne Masters]

i Understand BUT i made a research in wwe.s65Dyno.com and i realized the best DynoChart, i mean the other VT2-625 with similar conditions, hardware DA ant TEMP the had 12.1 and 80 WRP more then my.so that's reason i belive ESS HAS esome trimjng to do AND get the AFR TARGET,.

[Sered]

Originally Posted by Weyne Masters

i Understand BUT i made a research in wwe.s65Dyno.com and i realized the best DynoChart, i mean the other VT2-625 with similar conditions, hardware DA ant TEMP the had 12.1 and 80 WRP more then my.so that's reason i belive ESS HAS esome trimjng to do AND get the AFR TARGET,.

AFR isn't going to yield much power.

Your gains will come from ignition timing. Those dynos you see on that website are usually done in lower temps (under 75degF ambient). This is at least 20degF cooler temps ambient and probably 30-40degF cooler IATs. The IATs are one of the major factors the DME uses to calculate how much ignition timing to pull.

I reinterate, 520whp in 95degF heat (which means your IATs were probably around 125degF) is a good run.

Most VT2-625 kits dyno around 520-550whp in 'normal' weather. I'd chat with ESS first about what they think as this isn't some japanese car from 1990 that you can just lean out and expect good gains. You're not going to get 80whp on top of 520whp without a major boost increase and better ignition timing. It will NOT happen.

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by Sered

Uh the S65 runs 14.7:1 in normal driving. You shouldn't be going WOT unless the oil temps are warmed up.


There are no knock sensors, it uses a different system. You can see the result of knock or false knock by watching the ignition timing.

I've yet to see one single s65 running that lol...maybe idle or at cruising in close loop per happs but undering any load it's no where near 14s.

[Sered]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

I've yet to see one single s65 running that lol...maybe idle or at cruising in close loop per happs but undering any load it's no where near 14s.

The car runs in closed loop 100% of the time. Under light load mine hits 14-14.7:1. There is no open loop functionality in this car that I know of except maybe in limp mode or something.

You shouldn't be doing anymore than light load until the car warms up (ie. the oil comes up to temp). Which kind of flies in the face of your previous statement about the car running rich while the oil is warming up (it doesn't and the only condition that could cause that is too much load before it warms up).

[sales@ESSTuning]

The VT2-625 is designed to make on average around 530 whp in ideal conditions "70 deg ambient". You can gain or lose 10-15 whp on these cars quickly depending on ambient temp. The software AFR target is around 11:9 near redline for ideal conditions. If you dyno the car in 90+ deg ambient the ECU will add additional fuel to keep the motor safe on it's own. There is a reason this is done. We will not force the ECU to run a lean tune as this can not only compromise the safety of the motor it will not net you any real additional power. If you think you can gain 40 whp by running the car a little leaner you are mistaken. Running these cars lean when supercharged has no advantage other than risking the motors safety. If you want some additional power in 90+ deg temps I would suggest running high octane race fuel 98+ AKI unleaded.

[Weyne Masters]

We did all test with oil temp around 100 Celsius,so the engine was in exact temperature.
Ok I wondering to have more WHP ,and the environment temperature is during day is around 90 F during night 76F soo,WHAT CAN I DO TO MATCH A GOL(600WHP)?

1 Methanol injection ?
2 killer Chiler?

[Sered]

Originally Posted by Weyne Masters

We did all test with oil temp around 100 Celsius,so the engine was in exact temperature.I talked to others tuner and every one are seeing,the car is to rich.

Then the other tuners are stupid and running their mouth about a platform they know nothing about. Tell them to stick with what they know.

Your oil temperature is NOT your intake temperature. IATs are your intake temperature after being cooled by the intercooler. The fact the 'tuners' don't know this speaks volumes about their supposed expertise. Your IATs were probably around 125degF or higher. You're not going to reach peak power unless you're around 100degF.

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by Weyne Masters

We did all test with oil temp around 100 Celsius,so the engine was in exact temperature.I talked to others tuner and every one are seeing,the car is to rich.

Can you name the other tuner?