Yes, another rod bearing thread

[FogCityM3]

yeah so did I obviously, sorry. The way I think about it, can spend $3,500-$4,000 for CPO extended warranty, which will probably be close to breakeven without any bearing issues on the other stuff that is known to go bad and happened to me (diff bolt, evap, struts, MP exhaust, several sensors, brake rotor replacement, pulley tensioner, bad headlight) and I have peace of mind where the only time I think about rod bearings is when one of these threads pop up. I don't bother with oil lab tests, changing to different oils, just do mid cycle oil changes and let the oil warm up and rev to my heart's content! At 100k miles may go with race proven Bimmerworld (treated) or Dinan rod bearing as part of a more comprehensive engine build.

Originally Posted by BzsBimmer

The title is misleading. I also though another motor went boom

[Doc Oc]

What's funny is that before I had a 2008 m3 I had a 2004 m3. It was really my wife's car so I didn't mod it and didn't get involved in any online discussions of it either. I never knew that they had bearing issues until just recently. We traded it in at 87k miles and never experienced any trouble. I drove the crap out of it and never did any extra maintenance. I didn't know, so I never worried and it never had a problem. Fast forward to the 2008 and I did very little research before buying. Once I got it home and fell in love, I knew we'd be keeping it so I got involved in the online community. Shortly thereafter I learned of the "bearing issue" and have been ultra paranoid since. Even though the e92 has far fewer bearing issues than the e46, I'm much more worried. Perception becomes reality quickly and honestly I wish I'd never heard the horror stories as I'd enjoy my car much more if that were the case.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

yeah so did I obviously, sorry. The way I think about it, can spend $3,500-$4,000 for CPO extended warranty, which will probably be close to breakeven without any bearing issues on the other stuff that is known to go bad and happened to me (diff bolt, evap, struts, MP exhaust, several sensors, brake rotor replacement, pulley tensioner, bad headlight) and I have peace of mind where the only time I think about rod bearings is when one of these threads pop up. I don't bother with oil lab tests, changing to different oils, just do mid cycle oil changes and let the oil warm up and rev to my heart's content! At 100k miles may go with race proven Bimmerworld (treated) or Dinan rod bearing as part of a more comprehensive engine build.

Warranties are rarely close to break even for the buyer.

[dreamspeed]

Originally Posted by Ezio

It's actually good for a engine to see redline here and there.

Exactly, things that don't get used tend to atrophy over time. I see hitting redline as clearing your throat.....I just happen to do that everyday.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by dreamspeed

Exactly, things that don't get used tend to atrophy over time.

I keep saying this to my wife.....doesn't help.

[tjsabec]

To all the people that say don't worry about it: come on now, sure it happens to a very small percentage of M3s... But what if it happens to me? My car is probably worth around $28k-$30k... If my engine explodes, what's it worth them? $10k? Any event that I can't control that has the ability to cost me $20k, I'm going to worry at least a little bit about it. Sure there are ways to mitigate this worry, but even if you change the bearings, it's not a lifetime fix, so the worry will come back if you drive enough.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by heart_doctor

I did do a search but I have a specific question. Has anyone suffered a catastrophic rod bearing failure on a car which has been driven conservatively. I have a 2011 E92 M3. 32,000 miles. It's my daily driver. It has never been started in winter. Barely if ever sees redline. And has never been to the track. I followed the breakin meticulously. No mods. No tunes. Completely stock. Is there anyone out there with a completely stock m3 who drives like I do have a catastrophic failure?

And I change oil every 7500 miles ...

When people post about catastrophic bearing failure, check their post count. If it's a total of 3 with the first post being: "hey dude nice wheels. Good luck with the sale", and the second being: "dude nice car! What wax are you using?", then the third being: "guys, yesterday, I was driving home and out of nowhere, my engine grenaded........" Don't believe it.

[TrevorM3]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

When people post about catastrophic bearing failure, check their post count. If it's a total of 3 with the first post being: "hey dude nice wheels. Good luck with the sale", and the second being: "dude nice car! What wax are you using?", then the third being: "guys, yesterday, I was driving home and out of nowhere, my engine grenaded........" Don't believe it.

lol


op doesn't redline, sell the car buddy. the 335 is more for you

[FogCityM3]

In general, that is true or else why would warranties exist, but they may be mis-priced in this case especially if you drive it hard (plan on 2 brake jobs at least to 100k miles). Especially if a higher % of engines fail due to rod bearings, like some the alarmists believe, the warranties may actually be very mispriced.

Not to mention what is the price for piece of mind...ie might be cheaper than therapy!

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Warranties are rarely close to break even for the buyer.

[Sandye90m3]

78K miles, and original rod bearing and I beat the living guts out of it. My buddy, has one with 110k miles, and drives it like he stole it. Sometimes, I'm convinced that he actually did steal it...

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by heart_doctor

I did do a search but I have a specific question. Has anyone suffered a catastrophic rod bearing failure on a car which has been driven conservatively. I have a 2011 E92 M3. 32,000 miles. It's my daily driver. It has never been started in winter. Barely if ever sees redline. And has never been to the track. I followed the breakin meticulously. No mods. No tunes. Completely stock. Is there anyone out there with a completely stock m3 who drives like I do have a catastrophic failure?
And I change oil every 7500 miles ...

On the balance of probabilities there is every reason to believe that your car can complete a high mileage without any engine problems.
Despite suggestions to the otherwise, running to the redline is not beneficial to long engine life. The highest loads on the bearings and reciprocating parts occur at max rpm...combine that with elevated oil temps to further increase risk.
Not that owners shouldn't run to the red line - its what the car was designed for, but I don't find much performance benefit in using the last 500 rpm.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

In general, that is true or else why would warranties exist, but they may be mis-priced in this case especially if you drive it hard (plan on 2 brake jobs at least to 100k miles). Especially if a higher % of engines fail due to rod bearings, like some the alarmists believe, the warranties may actually be very mispriced.

Not to mention what is the price for piece of mind...ie might be cheaper than therapy!

If a product is mis-priced, it rarely stays mis-priced for long. When I bought used in January of 2011, I wanted 3 years of warranty since I could not afford a major problem and did not know these cars well at the time. I bought a 2.5 year old car with cpo. I likely paid about $2k over market price for the cpo. I definitely did not get my money back. I had zero cpo repairs before cpo expired in mid 2014.

Still happy I had 3+ year without worry of major expense. That bought me some time to learn the car and how to DIY various projects for it. I did the rod bearings as preventative maintenance when the cpo expired.

[bradleyland]

Meanwhile, Yost racing completed 25 Hours of Thunderhill on stock internals.

OP, obviously we can't just wave our hands and get you to stop worrying about the issue, but you've got to approach it rationally. A few of things to keep in mind:

1) This is an internet forum. The population here represents a very small portion of the overall M3 ownership population.

2) As is the case with all outlets for frustration, the vocal minority is strong here. Again, I'm not saying you should ignore the issue, but I am saying you should approach it rationally, which requires that you evaluate the opinions you're hearing in context.

3) Based on the numbers we have, it is exceedingly unlikely that you'll experience bearing failure. I tabulated all the production numbers for the M3 (worldwide) the other day, and BMW sold around 60k M3s across the globe. Of the people who have experienced rod bearing failure, many were modded. You can hardly be surprised when someone running a supercharger pushing 50% higher than the designed horsepower rating of the engine grenades a motor. If there were 200 failures of stock engines, that would represent about 1/3rd of 1%. The numbers we have suggest that the failure rate is not that high.

4) Even if you are one of the people who experience failure, there's a reasonable chance that BMW will fix the car for you, provided you haven't modified it significantly. Since we're all reasoning from anecdotes here, there are examples of individuals who experienced rod bearing failure outside of the factory warranty, and BMW still replaced their entire engine. It is not in BMW's interests to have a reputation for exploding engines; especially the S65. Of course, if you drive in with obvious signs of modification, they're going to put you out on your ear.

5) No one has the real failure rates but BMW, and it's unlikely that we'll ever get that information.

There is no fail-proof method of preventing the issue, but there are things you can do to mitigate it. When you have your oil changed, you can send it off for a lab report. If there are elevated levels of zinc and lead, you can spend $2,400 on rod bearing replacement and save the motor.

There are members here who will chime in and point out that the oil test procedure isn't 100% effective. They're right. There is no 100% effective solution, but if you're shooting for 100% assuredness, you should sell your car immediately and move in to an underground bunker, because you have a better chance of being struck by lightning than you do buying a car that has a 100% chance of trouble-free operation.

Be rational about it. Do what you can to mitigate your risk, and enjoy your car.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

On the balance of probabilities there is every reason to believe that your car can complete a high mileage without any engine problems.
Despite suggestions to the otherwise, running to the redline is not beneficial to long engine life. The highest loads on the bearings and reciprocating parts occur at max rpm...combine that with elevated oil temps to further increase risk.
Not that owners shouldn't run to the red line - its what the car was designed for, but I don't find much performance benefit in using the last 500 rpm.

Couldn't agree more. Lots of short commutes can lead to a little gas in the oil, and thrashing the car around can help with that, but I'm always dubious when people say the car likes to see redline. I see lots of guys saying it'll help clear out deposits and "decarb" the engine but I don't see 8400 rpms being anymore beneficial than 7400. Just more heat and wear. Running some techron will help much more than tear-assing around at 8k.

[pbonsalb]

Even here, the fountain of internet hysteria, we will admit that probably at least 95% of M3 seem to be doing fine on original rod bearings. I still did mine and based on what I saw, I am happy I did though I probably could have run a few more years at the rate I drive.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Even here, the fountain of internet hysteria, we will admit that probably at least 95% of M3 seem to be doing fine on original rod bearings. I still did mine and based on what I saw, I am happy I did though I probably could have run a few more years at the rate I drive.

I'm sure you've posted it elsewhere but how many miles were on the original bearings?

[Thurman Murch]

Wrx's have rod bearing problems just like Porsche's have IMS bearing issues

A certain percentage of all engines will fuck up

I'm sure the F8x will have its own unique problems

If you enjoy your car and don't modify it outside of engineering standards, put good gas in it and change the oil with good oil at respectable intervals BMW will side with you. I have had them buy back two cars already. Yes i did have to provide fuel receipts.

With the economic downturn of 2008 and the skyrocketing fuel prices at the time, many owners probably shied away from driving the car the way it was intended as well as prevented would be buyers because of the implied doom. I mean the F8x doesn't really get that better mpg and I see them putting along and being babied. If you can't truly afford the car don't get it. Sometimes these stories get everyone rattled up but if you take car of your car, BMW will take care of you. It's like a rare infectious diseases, they want to figure out the diagnosis and improve on it.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

I'm sure you've posted it elsewhere but how many miles were on the original bearings?

61k. And I just helped someone else do them at 60k and his were worse.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

t I don't see 8400 rpms being anymore beneficial than 7400. Just more heat and wear. Running some techron will help much more than tear-assing around at 8k.

I wouldn't buy this car unless I appreciated the engine. This engine is made for very high rpm. If you are not into that, a 335i would be the better choice.

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by ||||||||||

I'm so tired of these rod bearing threads

This is such an overhyped issue, it's ridiculous people worry so much about it. OP: If you are so worried about it, either sell the car, or replace your rod bearings for peace of mind. Or, don't, and just enjoy the car. If you are unlucky enough to see a catastrophic failure, shit happens But I would say if you are banking on it, you should start playing the lottery, because your odds of both are probably about the same.

Anybody else notice that it's comments like this that always appear in any thread with anybody asking a legitimate question. These posts always seem to precede all others on the topic. These are the true hysteria posts in my opinion.

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by heart_doctor

I did do a search but I have a specific question. Has anyone suffered a catastrophic rod bearing failure on a car which has been driven conservatively. I have a 2011 E92 M3. 32,000 miles. It's my daily driver. It has never been started in winter. Barely if ever sees redline. And has never been to the track. I followed the breakin meticulously. No mods. No tunes. Completely stock. Is there anyone out there with a completely stock m3 who drives like I do have a catastrophic failure?

And I change oil every 7500 miles ...

Yes op there are cases of bone stock cars failing with 6000 miles or less. If you want to learn more about the topic, I suggest reading the full first page or two of the bearing wiki thread.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=892838

[IIAp3x]

Originally Posted by heart_doctor

I did do a search but I have a specific question. Has anyone suffered a catastrophic rod bearing failure on a car which has been driven conservatively. I have a 2011 E92 M3. 32,000 miles. It's my daily driver. It has never been started in winter. Barely if ever sees redline. And has never been to the track. I followed the breakin meticulously. No mods. No tunes. Completely stock. Is there anyone out there with a completely stock m3 who drives like I do have a catastrophic failure?

And I change oil every 7500 miles ...

My car spun a bearing and I had the engine replaced, but I still say drive the piss out of the car like it is meant to be driven... Occasionally hit the redline and stretch her legs...

Your chances are small that you have bearing issues... If it really worries you then just upgrade the bearings for $2500 and then drive the piss out of it without worry....