American Racing Header Results: Dynos Inside

[8k3]

I've always been in the pursuit of more power ever since I purchased this car. Thing is I'm not made of money, I'm an enthusiast and cars are my hobby. That said, I put money aside each month and buy what seems to be the best bang for the buck performance wise. I get a little carried away but needless to say when I heard that ARH offered headers on this platform I was VERY skeptical. Why? Because, like many of you, I know Supersprint etc, didn't seem to be able to make a marketable product. That said, IMG made some serious gains as did M33too. In speaking to Nick over at ARH, I came across a guy who was extremely passionate about his work. It was clear this wasn't some fly-by-night operation or was trying to pull a "let's try this iteration of headers in the field". According to what he said he ran many, many, iterations in development. Given his level of dedication, passion, belief, and other positive dyno results, I figured I'd give it a try.

My Car Pre Headers
VF 650 Supercharger
Macht Schnell Catless X-Pipe
Borla ATaC Rear


I currently reside in Boise Idaho and only have 91 octane available to me. That said below are the results to a dyno pull pre/post headers (apologize I wish I had more runs, the dyno operator had issues that day and ran it in **4-wheel drive mode**)


Boost on that run was around 6.5 which was low for that kit, granted headers will make you lose boost. I picked up around 22/19 hp/tq in the midrange and 10/7 hp/tq at 7940rpm (he didn't run it to max rpm). Very respectable gains over my fully catless xpipe/exhaust.

However, I felt there was more in this beast. Boost was down, power overall looked fairly low, even though the headers made a significant difference. So I talked to Nick and he recommend Roshan, the lead tuner and part owner, at Power Haus Perfomance. I got to say Roshan is just a encyclopedia of knowledge, this man knows ECUs and cars; just totally impressed me. It wasn't just the S65 MSS60 that he tuned right before my eyes either, Lambos, Audis, you name it. Hats off to him for excellent customer service too.

Anyway I digress. I brought my car over, he spent a good amount of time on it and found a small boost leak with the blowoff valve. After replacing it and retuning my DME, he ran it on his in-house Mustang dyno. I think the results speak for themselves. This is higher than any Mustang result in the S65 database.



That's a delta of ~70/40 HP/TQ! Granted I picked up more boost due to the leak but there is no doubt his tune made a improvement. Back to the headers, I am convinced, there is simply no way I would make 519whp on Mustang dyno without these headers. The delta seen in first dyno shows that anyway.

If you are supercharged I do completely believe these headers will make a substantial difference.

[Patrón]

badass, would be a killer on 93 or 100 octane!!!
even more impressive is that you had the MS catless system (which everyone keeps arguing that the headers only make power because of the cat delete....)

[8600RPM]

More useless data and waste of time. You fixed a boost leak. That is enough to account for a ton of hp change

[M3lbournE92]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

More useless data and waste of time. You fixed a boost leak. That is enough to account for a ton of hp change

I agree. Do a before and after, after you fixed the boost leak. Doesn't make sense to compare a dyno run when your car wasn't running right the first time lol

[Patrón]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

More useless data and waste of time. You fixed a boost leak. That is enough to account for a ton of hp change

Originally Posted by M3lbournE92

I agree. Do a before and after, after you fixed the boost leak. Doesn't make sense to compare a dyno run when your car wasn't running right the first time lol

the first dyno with the boost leak showed small gains and a low readline (the supercharger makes max boost between 8,000 and whatever redline the car is tuned for).

are you guys saying that the final dyno at PH is no different or un-impressive compared to the car with the "before" exhaust setup?

[8k3]

As Patron points out, the first dyno shows the delta of the headers under the same conditions. And boost leak or not on 91, I was still making 6.5lb.

[whats77inaname]

Can wait to see you run on 93 octane

[81bear]

Originally Posted by 8k3

As Patron points out, the first dyno shows the delta of the headers under the same conditions. And boost leak or not on 91, I was still making 6.5lb.

First off, thanks a bunch for taking the time out and running before and after dyno's! I've had a few boost leaks and they really effect performance.

I think the issue is, your first comparison (which is really the only comparison we can look at) shows a more modest gain of 22hp and 19hp at its greatest point (mid range). Though those results are definitely noticeable they aren't spectacular as similar gains have been had going from an Akra Evo system to the MRF x-pipe. And as I said earlier the second dyno graph without a doubt shows great numbers and good gains but they are heavily impacted by the repair of your boost leak.

Again, much respect for going through and dynoing before and after and I'm glad you found your boost leak so you can enjoy the kit the way it was meant to be enjoyed!

Edit: Added link to akra to mrf comparison dyno

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ight=mrf+xpipe

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by Patrón

badass, would be a killer on 93 or 100 octane!!!
even more impressive is that you had the MS catless system (which everyone keeps arguing that the headers only make power because of the cat delete....)

Any gains associated with ARH header systems are attributable to the following factors:

1. Primary cat delete
2. Relocation of the "X" merge closer to the headers
3. Larger piping
4. Long-tube header design

Note that the first three--and probably the most important three of the four--can be had without having to swap out the headers. Do just the first two on a blown car (such as with the MRF Velaforza x-pipe) and I bet that it would be within a couple of HP/TQ of the ARH system, but much less expensive, lighter, and far easier to install.

On an NA car, I bet just the first one (a primary cat delete) would be within 5 hp/tq of the ARH system.

[PorkchopExpress]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

More useless data and waste of time. You fixed a boost leak. That is enough to account for a ton of hp change

Douches gonna douche. There will never be enough data satisfy the anti-header organization of M3post. Lets just be honest and call it how it is.

[PorkchopExpress]

*edit: Actually, maybe call it Anti-header league? It sounds more official and the acronym is pretty boss. AHL, although then we may get called out by the real AHL... Oh well.

8k3, congrats on those pulls, your midrange power pick up looks pretty awesome, and just what you'd expect headers to do on *any* air pump... I mean engine.

[8k3]

Originally Posted by Hujan

Any gains associated with ARH header systems are attributable to the following factors:

1. Primary cat delete
2. Relocation of the "X" merge closer to the headers
3. Larger piping
4. Long-tube header design

Note that the first three--and probably the most important three of the four--can be had without having to swap out the headers. Do just the first two on a blown car (such as with the MRF Velaforza x-pipe) and I bet that it would be within a couple of HP/TQ of the ARH system, but much less expensive, lighter, and far easier to install.

On an NA car, I bet just the first one (a primary cat delete) would be within 5 hp/tq of the ARH system.

Speculation. Akra has one of the weirdest designs in that they include a H section. Not to mention MRF's xpipe is no longer in production. Why can't we simply accept this is yielding the highest HP for blown applications, data is showing this. No one is going to say headers will give you 70hp, but the fact I picked up 20+ hp/tq over being catless on a catless respectable xpipe (remember DLSJ5 ran the same MS Xpipe I did with his monster VT3 700) says a lot

[Haywood]

"OMG, this is totally biased...how much did they pay you to write this...their stuff is garbage..." - MFL

[8k3]

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

Can wait to see you run on 93 octane

Originally Posted by Patrón

badass, would be a killer on 93 or 100 octane!!!
even more impressive is that you had the MS catless system (which everyone keeps arguing that the headers only make power because of the cat delete....)

Thanks man. 93 was run on the second dyno at PowerHaus

Originally Posted by 81bear

Again, much respect for going through and dynoing before and after and I'm glad you found your boost leak so you can enjoy the kit the way it was meant to be enjoyed!

Thanks!

Originally Posted by PorkchopExpress

*edit: Actually, maybe call it Anti-header league? It sounds more official and the acronym is pretty boss. AHL, although then we may get called out by the real AHL... Oh well.

8k3, congrats on those pulls, your midrange power pick up looks pretty awesome, and just what you'd expect headers to do on *any* air pump... I mean engine.

LOL! Agree, AHL sounds cool to me. Some just want to disagree with data.

Thanks man!!

[Nick ARH]

8K3, I really appreciate you posting your results. Clearly the folks at Powerhaus know their way around these cars and I'm glad you made the trip to NJ. Quite a haul but it sure was worth it.

For what it's worth and based on the results of other blown applications, I believe power gains would've been closer to 30 RW or more had there not been an issue with the blow off valve.

Enjoy your M3 and if you have an opportunity to bolt up some drag radials, I'm sure we'd all love to see some high 10 sec time slips.

Nick

[Dave07997S]

I am definitely not in the AHL. However, I still haven't seen the data to justify the headers for us FBO normally aspirated guys. I'm still waiting for some dyno's to show up with proper data. So far the only dyno's I have seen are cars with FI, which I knew from the get go would see gains with larger headers.

Dave

[gouda-buddh]

Nice! Always good stuff to hear. Pushing the envelope.

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by PorkchopExpress

Douches gonna douche. There will never be enough data satisfy the anti-header organization of M3post. Lets just be honest and call it how it is.

Originally Posted by PorkchopExpress

*edit: Actually, maybe call it Anti-header league? It sounds more official and the acronym is pretty boss. AHL, although then we may get called out by the real AHL... Oh well.

8k3, congrats on those pulls, your midrange power pick up looks pretty awesome, and just what you'd expect headers to do on *any* air pump... I mean engine.

Yes. This exactly. A bunch of posters got up one morning, saw that a set of headers on the market were making big power, then called a meeting and conspired to smear the company for no reason. This is exactly what happened. It certainly isn't the case that people are reacting to the fact that nebulous marketing copy and bold claims seem to be substituting for actual, empirical evidence that these things do anything significant.

Originally Posted by 8k3

Speculation. Akra has one of the weirdest designs in that they include a H section. Not to mention MRF's xpipe is no longer in production. Why can't we simply accept this is yielding the highest HP for blown applications, data is showing this. No one is going to say headers will give you 70hp, but the fact I picked up 20+ hp/tq over being catless on a catless respectable xpipe (remember DLSJ5 ran the same MS Xpipe I did with his monster VT3 700) says a lot

Why are you focusing on the Akra? Why does everyone who tries to defend the ARH system focus on the Akra? Pick the cheapest cat-delete x-pipe on the market and start from there.

"Why can't we simply accept this is yielding the highest HP for blown applications, data is showing this."

Because we can't accept that this is because of the headers rather than the x-pipe design. Why can't you accept that there may be an easier, cheaper way to get an additional 20 hp on blown applications (or <4%) than dropping the front subframe to bolt on a set of heavy, expensive headers?

It's been how many months that these things have been on the market and still the only thing that can be said for them is that they add <4% power on a FI engine.

[M33too]

In my case they added 33 rwhp over a catless ti x-pipe setup but I'm running slightly more boost: 10 psi

That was without tuning either. In my eyes that's a great bump in power on a already high strung package.

8k3, the car must rip. I know anything over 510 whp on that mustang dyno and you have the capability of trapping 135 mph. Sorry I missed you, we were at the Gold Rush Rally event with our twin turbo gallardo. Enjoy the car. Keep good fuel in it and log those iat's.

[Harry Da Hamster]

I'm super confused. Or maybe i skimmed thru too fast. You have two M3's? One supercharged and one stock?

[8k3]

Originally Posted by Hujan

Yes. This exactly. A bunch of posters got up one morning, saw that a set of headers on the market were making big power, then called a meeting and conspired to smear the company for no reason. This is exactly what happened. It certainly isn't the case that people are reacting to the fact that nebulous marketing copy and bold claims seem to be substituting for actual, empirical evidence that these things do anything significant.



Why are you focusing on the Akra? Why does everyone who tries to defend the ARH system focus on the Akra? Pick the cheapest cat-delete x-pipe on the market and start from there.

"Why can't we simply accept this is yielding the highest HP for blown applications, data is showing this."

Because we can't accept that this is because of the headers rather than the x-pipe design. Why can't you accept that there may be an easier, cheaper way to get an additional 20 hp on blown applications (or <4%) than dropping the front subframe to bolt on a set of heavy, expensive headers?

It's been how many months that these things have been on the market and still the only thing that can be said for them is that they add <4% power on a FI engine.

Sarcasm isn't needed.
I for one do not focus on Akra but for whatever reason everyone and their brother wants to compare to Akra and MRF, which btw is not in production and also has very limited data (one, maybe two, cars?). When you are at nearly 150hp per liter it's going to be hard to pick up massive gains so 4-5% is actually a pretty decent number and that's over the existing catless xpipe, so that percentage is greater when starting off with something less

[FogCityM3]

The inability of people to be nice is dumbfounding. You can question and debate without being disrespectful and toxic. God forbid if people are like this with their families, acquaintances and colleagues.

Originally Posted by PorkchopExpress

Douches gonna douche. There will never be enough data satisfy the anti-header organization of M3post. Lets just be honest and call it how it is.