Class Action Lawsuit for Rod Bearing issue, LETS FINALLY DO THIS

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by s85e90

While it could be dangerous, it's foreshadowing and no one pays for what "potentially could happen" I'm amazed at some of the replies here.

I know one thing...and for sure .
If this would be happend with you .... in your car while driving 135 mph ,you would be also amazed and probably even more..
Most of us would be in shock and for a long time .
And I'm sure you would not speak this way , just like nothing happend .

If this blown S65 had spit some oil on the tires or brakes when it blew , and while driving 135 mph ..Do you see it ?
Hope you know now how dangerous this situations actually can be !
And I really hope it never happens with one of us .

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

I know one thing...and for sure .
If this would be happend with you .... in your car while driving 135 mph ,you would be also amazed and probably even more..
Most of us would be in shock and for a long time .
And I'm sure you would not speak this way , just like nothing happend .

If this blown S65 had spit some oil on the tires or brakes when it blew , and while driving 135 mph ..Do you see it ?
Hope you know now how dangerous this situations actually can be !
And I really hope it never happens with one of us .

You keep missing the point. You keep saying "if" "if" "if". Think about that. Life is full of ifs. Companies don't pay to mitigate "what if" scenarios that may never materialize.

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by s85e90

You keep missing the point. You keep saying "if" "if" "if". Think about that. Life is full of ifs. Companies don't pay to mitigate "what if" scenarios that may never materialize.

Ford played that game with the Pinto and look at what it cost them. One death from an engine failure could cost them more than a bearing recall.

[maloo]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

Ford played that game with the Pinto and look at what it cost them. One death from an engine failure could cost them more than a bearing recall.

Agree. Good point.

More recently, the CEO of Fiat had to learn the hard way that our legal system isn't like it is in the rest of the world. This is a case that could have probably been settled for $10 million but Fiat decided to roll the dice:

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...uit-/25245703/

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

Ford played that game with the Pinto and look at what it cost them. One death from an engine failure could cost them more than a bearing recall.

What did it cost them? They are making record money. You run a business and should know the formula that businesses are aware of these problems, but (and this is true) if the cost of paying lawsuits from the wrongful deaths is < the cost of the recall campaign it ISN"T done. Again, you're also speculating here. You're statement is also wrong. Even though the recall part that would've fixed the Pinto was only pennies, the cost of the recall campaign was in fact LESS than paying wrongful death settlements.


No one recalls something for a "what if" scenario. How can you guys even argue this is beyond me. As far as I know, no one has been killed (God Bless) driving their M3 from rod bearing failure.

Read that last sentence again. This forum has gotten ridiculous

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by s85e90

What did it cost them? They are making record money. You run a business and should know the formula that businesses are aware of these problems, but (and this is true) if the cost of paying lawsuits from the wrongful deaths is &lt; the cost of the recall campaign it ISN"T done. Again, you're also speculating here. You're statement is also wrong. Even though the recall part that would've fixed the Pinto was only pennies, the cost of the recall campaign was in fact LESS than paying wrongful death settlements.


No one recalls something for a "what if" scenario. How can you guys even argue this is beyond me. As far as I know, no one has been killed (God Bless) driving their M3 from rod bearing failure.

Read that last sentence again. This forum has gotten ridiculous

It cost them more money than it would have to fix the defect. Whether their business is successful now is not relevant.

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

It cost them more money than it would have to fix the defect. Whether their business is successful now is not relevant.

No you're wrong.


"One might wonder how Ford Motor Company did not spiral to the ground and cease to exist after so many deaths were caused by their faulty product. Ford used a calculation called a Cost/Benefit analysis to justify their actions in not recalling all of the Pinto’s from 1971 to 1976. This Cost/Benefit analysis weighed both the cost and the benefit to society and to Ford Motor Company if they were to recall every car that was defective. If the numbers turned out in Ford’s favor, that is, if the cost outweighed the societal benefit, they were justified in not recalling the Pinto’s because they would be spending more money than what would affect society. At the time, NHTSA valued a human life to be worth about $200,000 based on the following terms:

Future productivity losses = Direct: $132,000 and Indirect: $41,300,
Medical Costs = Hospital: $700 and Other: $425,
Property Damage = $1,500,
Insurance Administration = $4,700,
Legal and Court Fees = $3,000,
Employer Losses = $1,000,
Victim’s pain and suffering = $10,000,
Funeral = $900,
Assets = $5,000,
Miscellaneous = $200.

The total value of human life per fatality was $200,725. Rounding the number down, Ford came up with a Cost/Benefit analysis. The benefits accounted for 180 burn deaths prevented, 180 serious burn injuries prevented, and 2,100 burned vehicles prevented. If those numbers are multiplied for $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury, and $700 per vehicle, the final benefit, or amount of money Ford would have to pay if they did not recall any of their vehicles, to society was $49.5 million. Following is the Cost analysis for the recall of Fords Vehicles: 11 million cars, 1.5 million light trucks. For recall it would cost $11 per car, and $11 per truck. After the math was done, Ford would end up spending $137 million on recalls.[xi] As stated earlier, Ford was justified by not recalling their affected vehicles because the amount of money they would have to spend on recalls far outweighed the amount of money they would spend on compensation to customers for death, injury, or harmed cars. Although this may have saved Ford Motor Company a great amount of money, they also lost their good reputation as well as many consumer fans because of their choice not to recall the cars. Ford originally gave four reasons why they did not want to recall the Pinto. 1) Ford had based an earlier advertising campaign around safety, which failed. 2) The bad publicity involved with a recall would be too much negative publicity to overcome. 3) At the time of the product designs and crash tests, the law did not require them to redesign the fuel system. 4) It was customary in the automotive industry to place the gas tank between the rear axle and bumper.[xii] Ford eventually agreed to recall the Pinto on June 10, 1978. They sent out the recall notices on August 22, 1978.

Although Ford Motor Company failed greatly with the design of the Pinto in the 1970s, they made a comeback and eventually built up a good name for themselves. Today, they are one of the most successful American automotive producers."


As I stated before.. Every business has a cost analysis that says if a recall is cheaper than human life death settlements, then yes recall. If not and the cost is greater, than they leave it be.

People are mistaken now re: the Takata recall as the USA kind of TOLD Takata they were doing it.

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by maloo

Agree. Good point.

More recently, the CEO of Fiat had to learn the hard way that our legal system isn't like it is in the rest of the world. This is a case that could have probably been settled for $10 million but Fiat decided to roll the dice:

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...uit-/25245703/

This is American arrogance. The design of this vehicle predates the Fiat relationship with Jeep/Chrysler and Jeep has always maintained that it is cheaper to fix under warranty, than to engineer a solution to an existing problem. Jeeps and Chryslers are like bic lighters ... use them for a while, a few bowls, and just chuck'em.

[maloo]

Originally Posted by thekurgan

This is American arrogance. The design of this vehicle predates the Fiat relationship with Jeep/Chrysler and Jeep has always maintained that it is cheaper to fix under warranty, than to engineer a solution to an existing problem. Jeeps and Chryslers are like bic lighters ... use them for a while, a few bowls, and just chuck'em.

I don't disagree but right or wrong this was a dumb legal strategy to take this to a jury. Now the flood gates are open.

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by maloo

I don't disagree but right or wrong this was a dumb legal strategy to take this to a jury. Now the flood gates are open.

The only thing worthwhile from that article is that the dollar value placed on the human life was $ 120 million (If I recall). This changes the cost base analysis car companies as well as other companies use to figure if recalls are cost effective solutions.

This would make manufacturers more willing to do a recall. IMO the whole case is a little ridiculous. Most cars had this issue, and the Dodge trucks were worse with the tank mounted on the side.

[BPMSport]

You copied something from an article you found online: http://users.wfu.edu/palmitar/Law&Va...ett-pinto.html

I don't believe everything I read on the internet.

We can agree to disagree because I don't have time to argue on the interwebs.

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

You copied something from an article you found online: http://users.wfu.edu/palmitar/Law&Va...ett-pinto.html

I don't believe everything I read on the internet.

We can agree to disagree because I don't have time to argue on the interwebs.

Hence the quotes" " ... Of course I copied it from online. It's actually a widely known truth and actually an accepted business practice (as fucked up as it sounds). I'm not arguing. Your post was wrong plain and simple. That's all. I copied a post as who has the time to type all that. BTW check all the references online or in print regarding the Pinto case. It's been well studied/documented. You can pick and chose what to believe on the web and I agree, but this is real life. If you disagree, it's not us agreeing to disagree. You're wrong on the basis of not observing an accepted widely known fact.

[s85e90]

Of all the things to not believe on the web, did you not read the footnotes? Lol

[Rupes]

In typical Bimmerpost fashion, a great thread spirals downward into unrelated legal cases and opinions. No wonder BMW doesn't fear us and issue a recall. Their owners can't stay focused for more than 15 minutes to bring anything to fruition.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Rupes

In typical Bimmerpost fashion, a great thread spirals downward into unrelated legal cases and opinions. No wonder BMW doesn't fear us and issue a recall. Their owners can't stay focused for more than 15 minutes to bring anything to fruition.

You are correct !
To make things clear to focus , here is it again => http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1127039

[Scrippy]

Everyone is correct on separate statements. None of which coincide with each other unfortunately. I think a baseline issue is.......if you've experienced Rod bearing issues, your probably pissed off. If you haven't experienced an issue with Rod bearings, you think it's a bunch of hot air and paranoia. Unfortunately post 08 M3's this issue is completely sporadic. Cold driving and lack of warmup is probably main cause along with maintenance of oil. This is a REAL issue with the manufacturer though. If you cannot get 100,000 on original bearings......there is a clear defect. Do we not all agree 100,000 miles is a conservative number to expect from ANY passenger vehicle regardless of vehicle class. The fact it's a sports car does not exclude it from basic assumed reliability by customers. I had to do mine at 40,000! I am the 2nd owner so who knows what homeboy did before me. All I know is all the other components of my car are in working order and show no signs of track use.....no scratched up brake assembly bolts, no scratched brake line breeders, blue paint on all engine bolts has not been compromised. So my car is a FACT that engine bearings are shitty and defective! I have videos of before and after to prove all and my fucked up 40,000 mile bearings on hand!!!!

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Scrippy

Everyone is correct on separate statements. None of which coincide with each other unfortunately. I think a baseline issue is.......if you've experienced Rod bearing issues, your probably pissed off. If you haven't experienced an issue with Rod bearings, you think it's a bunch of hot air and paranoia. Unfortunately post 08 M3's this issue is completely sporadic. Cold driving and lack of warmup is probably main cause along with maintenance of oil. This is a REAL issue with the manufacturer though. If you cannot get 100,000 on original bearings......there is a clear defect. Do we not all agree 100,000 miles is a conservative number to expect from ANY passenger vehicle regardless of vehicle class. The fact it's a sports car does not exclude it from basic assumed reliability by customers. I had to do mine at 40,000! I am the 2nd owner so who knows what homeboy did before me. All I know is all the other components of my car are in working order and show no signs of track use.....no scratched up brake assembly bolts, no scratched brake line breeders, blue paint on all engine bolts has not been compromised. So my car is a FACT that engine bearings are shitty and defective! I have videos of before and after to prove all and my fucked up 40,000 mile bearings on hand!!!!

i dont expect a Lamborghini v12 engine or v10 to last 100k miles without problems. I expect a Toyota corolla to last over 100k miles without any problems.

high performance engines , specially high revving ones are more extreme engines. They run so much harder, and need a lot more care.

[Scrippy]

Originally Posted by Ezio

i dont expect a Lamborghini v12 engine or v10 to last 100k miles without problems. I expect a Toyota corolla to last over 100k miles without any problems.

high performance engines , specially high revving ones are more extreme engines. They run so much harder, and need a lot more care.

Way to go Apples to Oranges! Neither a Camry or an M3 is anywhere close to a Lambo. Way to reach though. Let's stay bellow 90g's bud.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Scrippy

Way to go Apples to Oranges! Neither a Camry or an M3 is anywhere close to a Lambo. Way to reach though. Let's stay bellow 90g's bud.

I think people have said many times on here that the s65 and s86 are near exotic type engines

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by Ezio

i dont expect a Lamborghini v12 engine or v10 to last 100k miles without problems. I expect a Toyota corolla to last over 100k miles without any problems.

high performance engines , specially high revving ones are more extreme engines. They run so much harder, and need a lot more care.

I would bet that a much higher % of M3s are driven harder than Toyotas.

IMO, the real problem is BMWs effort over the years to make low maintenance car. At least a problem for us enthusiasts.

But if they made a car today that required maintenance like an E30 M3 (the one that everyone wants BMW to make?) then everyone would be crying bloody murder and complaining why their car is so expensive to maintain. And then sue BMW.

Careful what you (or we) ask for.

[regular guy]

I think the correct metric for comparison is naturally aspirated horsepower per liter. That puts the entire conversation on comparable terms. At 120 horsepower per liter and 9000 rpm redline, how many s2000 motors do you see with rod bearings that look like ours, and how many hudreds of thousands of miles do they last with great looking bearings?

Cold start and driving like an idiot are common to all cars, brands, and engines. So according to the theory above, at least how I read it, all car engines should suffer the same fate as the s65.

[Scrippy]

Originally Posted by Ezio

I think people have said many times on here that the s65 and s86 are near exotic type engines

Yeah, I'm gonna say no. The M3 is a nicer Corvette, Mustang, Camaro. I could buy a Boss Mustang and smoke my or anyone's M3 all day. Exotic is exotic and production numbers and cost are the real factors. Don't get me wrong, I love BMW's but they are not on the level of Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, Masaratti, or many more. So this god damn motor shouldn't have the issues people are having. It is capable on a track but not a race car.