Man Down! 2008 M3 Rod Bearing Failed

[IIAp3x]

Originally Posted by nthretourNAFTW

..And you can write two more pages if you like, it won't change the fact that you bought a used car with no visibility on how it was driven for 50k miles including most importantly break-in, just the previous owner's sale pitch with vested interest. Sorry but this matters, people pay factory price so as not to have to carry that risk along their ownership. There is nothing wrong in buying used as long as you are aware of the added risk versus lower price trade-off. Like most, i've had my used cars some good and some bad, some worse. It's the nature of that game.
All along you are implying that every first 50k miles of a car is the same no matter how it was driven. Sorry, that's denial.

Take any healthy car you listed, no matter how bulletproof (american pushrod, turbo, high strung NA, anything) a misguided driver can make a radical life expectancy change to its engine in less than 100 miles, just from behind the wheel, no mechanical foul play. It might be a guy the previous owner lent the car for an hour or maybe he himself was one of those adepts at "flooring the car during break in to get better piston ring seal for low oil consumption over the car's life". Don't assume that a zealous maintenance record is all that matters. Maybe it's a sign of trying to compensate for a car that went through more than what ordinary M3 goes through. Bottom line, it's used, you don't know. Just search the forum archives, it's not the irresponsible ignorant type you'd expect, some were advanced track instructors.

Yes, its true you never know who you are buying from... But I met the previous owner and genuinely liked the guy... Kind of a geeky computer IT guy in his mid 50's but loved cars and was a gear head, car-queer like all of us here... He wanted to buy the F80 M4...

The car honestly looks like it spent most of its days in the darkness of the garage... It is nearly flawless and looks new...

I'm not saying that you can't drive a clean car hard, but this car is one clean-gorgeous car inside and out... It's truly tragic this happened to such a good looking car...

I can say this... I really think that the previous owner loved this car as much as me...

[hayes180]

Okay so this actually came up a few weeks ago at a BMWCCA meet in Monterey and my friend who has a 10' E92 (mine 13 E92) ask the question to the DINAN reps about this. Big issue with the 08-10 S65 engines and apparently the issue was resolved by BMW starting with year group 10-13. My friend has about 47K on his right now and no issues so far. DINAN does Rod bearing replacements for 3K out the door and might be a good consideration to replace early than down the road with a new engine or hoping for goodwill from BMW. None the less it is something that he is going to keep an eye on and I hope that this doesn't happen to any one else down the road.

Recommendation if you have an 08-09 go for the rod bearing replacements early and have it checked out. 3K although not a small sum, is still better than the worst possible outcome: a new engine

[IIAp3x]

Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars

I agree with you. And granted there are cars with motors just as advanced, but OP forgets this engine design is already 10 years old counting design and planning phases. A V-8 that revs as high as ours was just not heard of in anything less than 100,000 at that time.

Really, because Audi and Maserati have been doing high revving V-8s for 12-13 years, but don't count them... under $100k

[MachinesWithSouls]

Originally Posted by IIAp3x

Really, because Audi and Maserati have been doing high revving V-8s for 12-13 years, but don't count them... under $100k

Please show me a Maserati even close to the base price of an M3 10 years ago. As far as Audi, the only motor I can think of is the RS4, which does not rev as high. Look up RS4 timing chain service and see how well they designed that motor.

I'm sorry you got stuck with the car, but when buying any car like this you take a chance, and this time you lost. I bought mine new and have been careful so my chances are less but still, it's possible I'll have issues too. What can we do?

[IIAp3x]

Originally Posted by hayes180

Okay so this actually came up a few weeks ago at a BMWCCA meet in Monterey and my friend who has a 10' E92 (mine 13 E92) ask the question to the DINAN reps about this. Big issue with the 08-10 S65 engines and apparently the issue was resolved by BMW starting with year group 10-13. My friend has about 47K on his right now and no issues so far. DINAN does Rod bearing replacements for 3K out the door and might be a good consideration to replace early than down the road with a new engine or hoping for goodwill from BMW. None the less it is something that he is going to keep an eye on and I hope that this doesn't happen to any one else down the road.

Recommendation if you have an 08-09 go for the rod bearing replacements early and have it checked out. 3K although not a small sum, is still better than the worst possible outcome: a new engine

agreed... When was the last time anyone saw pics of clean bearings removed from an E92 M3 that actually looked healthy?

[IIAp3x]

Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars

Please show me a Maserati even close to the base price of an M3 10 years ago. As far as Audi, the only motor I can think of is the RS4, which does not rev as high. Look up RS4 timing chain service and see how well they designed that motor.

I'm sorry you got stuck with the car, but when buying any car like this you take a chance, and this time you lost. I bought mine new and have been careful so my chances are less but still, it's possible I'll have issues too. What can we do?

Preventative maintenance is really the only choice... If I had known days before the bearings went south I would have gladly paid someone $3000 to replace them rather than replacing the whole engine... Current replacement cost is sitting at $19,500 and they are still waiting on a few other parts to price in the total estimate... I at least have a warranty to cover, hopefully if they don't screw me... I would hate to see someone come out of pocket for this...

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by IIAp3x

One thing to also note: in the last 5k miles, the car only burned about a 1/2 liter of TWS of which I topped off... In the 2 days prior to the knocking sound, the oil level dropped from MAX level to the half way mark in under 48 hours... That tells me that the bearing was likely spun or about to spin, as it was super hot and cooking the oil...

Our oil level indicator is absolute crap. Only trust this system when it sez to add a full quart.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by nthretourNAFTW

More output either by SC or tuning (canned or not) means more loading the engine to produce the extra output over a stock engine.

It's much more complicated than that. From the pictures of the failed bearings, some failed due to an obvious lack of lubrication (thick oem oil weight recommendation?), some got chewed up, indicating installation (production) issues- i.e incorrect tolerances, incorrect install-bolts too tight, etc.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

I have BMW's factory extended warranty, but it was denied because they did research and "found footage of my car racing at the track and that is considered abuse".

errr...how the heck did they discover that?

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by nthretourNAFTW

Ok, the OP replies on driving style bear no importance at all, the car was a 49K used car when he got it, only previous owner(s) really know what it really went through...Every speculation is possible. OP: "Just bought the car 2 months ago... I bought the car with 49k miles on it." I have read people saying there are B failure cases from original owners at low mileage who did everything right. But it's funny every time i read a thread on a B failure, the OP is not the original owner of the car, or if he is, that it was SC at some point, or you learn on page 13 that he was tracking the car, or participated in some driving "events".

+1! You simply cannot speak to the driving and maintenance habits of the previous owner. In my case I was lucky. I did some investigating, and even though my car had 95K miles at the time of purchase, it sat in the dealership for two years, during the recession, unsold, then some real estate guy bought it, and traveled for two years straight on the interstate with it, changing the oil with M1 10W40. The result was a fresh car inside and out that was just driven for two years straight.

Also, note that most of the hysteria is from guys posting on the general section or the engine section, with low post counts. Not one bearing failure thread on the track section, and our breed flogs cars.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Statistically (of the failures have been reported here) tracking and most definitely supercharging significantly increases your chances of bearing failure.
Its hardly surprising that the harder you work your engine the more likely the bearings are to fail.

WRONG! Guys in the track section change oil every 2-3 events, and have 0 bearing failures. It's the average gullible consumer who fell prey to the 15K mile oil change schedule, using molasses thick oem oil, that is posting about his failure, or rather, the dude that just bought the car after him. lol

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by nthretourNAFTW

For me the first condition of buying an M3 was to get it ordered straight from the factory into my hands or from an original owner who factory ordered it. It was one of the first decision i made when i got interested in the car.

Again, consider variances in production. Some bearings were measured and show the correct measurements, others not. This is the only thing that explains an engine that has lasted up to 170+K miles for some people, and <15K miles for others.

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by jaco

Let us know how it progresses! If it fairs well, i'll get my warranty through these guys.

Jaco P. was the greatest. But I doubt that's why you chose the name.

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

WRONG! Guys in the track section change oil every 2-3 events, and have 0 bearing failures. It's the average gullible consumer who fell prey to the 15K mile oil change schedule, using molasses thick oem oil, that is posting about his failure, or rather, the dude that just bought the car after him. lol

I'm guessing you don't know radiantM3 is an avid track guy...who suffered a rod bearing failure. I personally know of two other avid track guys who also suffered rod bearing failure. Then I've seen pictures of two more, also avid track guys with bearing failure.

[Ashley Schaeffer BMW]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

+1! You simply cannot speak to the driving and maintenance habits of the previous owner. In my case I was lucky. I did some investigating, and even though my car had 95K miles at the time of purchase, it sat in the dealership for two years, during the recession, unsold, then some real estate guy bought it, and traveled for two years straight on the interstate with it, changing the oil with M1 10W40. The result was a fresh car inside and out that was just driven for two years straight.

Also, note that most of the hysteria is from guys posting on the general section or the engine section, with low post counts. Not one bearing failure thread on the track section, and our breed flogs cars.

LOL @ "our breed". **cough**dork!!**cough** You do realize it's possible to track an M3 without posting in an obscure sub forum on the Internet, right?

Also there is more to preserving an engine than frequent oil changes.

[to///m]

Originally Posted by IIAp3x

One thing to also note: in the last 5k miles, the car only burned about a 1/2 liter of TWS of which I topped off... In the 2 days prior to the knocking sound, the oil level dropped from MAX level to the half way mark in under 48 hours... That tells me that the bearing was likely spun or about to spin, as it was super hot and cooking the oil...

This statement concerns me.

I think I read that you just recently changed your oil prior to this. So wouldn't the oil dropping from full to half pretty quickly after an oil change be normal and NOT indicate anything is wrong with your bearings.

I've changed the oil about 6 times since ive owned the car and every time the oil gauge goes from about max to half pretty quick, then it levels out and I maybe have to add another 1/2 liter before I change the oil again.

I just want clarification so people (and myself) just don't think because they are burning oil quickly its bearing failure...

[jaco]

Originally Posted by regular guy

Jaco P. was the greatest. But I doubt that's why you chose the name.

haha def not.

[davesaddiction]

Originally Posted by hayes180

Okay so this actually came up a few weeks ago at a BMWCCA meet in Monterey and my friend who has a 10' E92 (mine 13 E92) ask the question to the DINAN reps about this. Big issue with the 08-10 S65 engines and apparently the issue was resolved by BMW starting with year group 10-13. My friend has about 47K on his right now and no issues so far. DINAN does Rod bearing replacements for 3K out the door and might be a good consideration to replace early than down the road with a new engine or hoping for goodwill from BMW. None the less it is something that he is going to keep an eye on and I hope that this doesn't happen to any one else down the road.

Recommendation if you have an 08-09 go for the rod bearing replacements early and have it checked out. 3K although not a small sum, is still better than the worst possible outcome: a new engine

Nope.



This graph is of all failures (on M3post) except supercharged cars.
The X axis is stated year of manufacturer, oldest at zero (ordered by date of fail).
There was the bearing spec change to EU mandated lead free bearing at around mid 2010 most likely for the 2011 model change in August 2010.
Assuming all cars with a stated build date of 2011 have the new bearings then the change occurs on the graph with car 26.

Newer cars fail at around the same rate as older cars but at a lower mileage.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=136

[Genericuser1]

Sadly this is why I'll probably sell my car next fall. There will finally be new cars out that I want and I can't swing a $20k repair. If I wanted to blow $5-$6k on insurance I'd have just repaired my STI with a built block and no car payments.

By then I'll have had my dream car for a few years and then I'll just have to come back to reality.

[kb9uwu]

Originally Posted by Genericuser1

Sadly this is why I'll probably sell my car next fall. There will finally be new cars out that I want and I can't swing a $20k repair. If I wanted to blow $5-$6k on insurance I'd have just repaired my STI with a built block and no car payments.

By then I'll have had my dream car for a few years and then I'll just have to come back to reality.

next fall... think your bearings will make it that long?

[vsix]

Originally Posted by Genericuser1

Sadly this is why I'll probably sell my car next fall. There will finally be new cars out that I want and I can't swing a $20k repair. If I wanted to blow $5-$6k on insurance I'd have just repaired my STI with a built block and no car payments.

By then I'll have had my dream car for a few years and then I'll just have to come back to reality.

Sorry but if you really sell the car just because of fear, then also Burn all your clothes, because there is a chance you run into someone who come's to close and might get's strangled by your underwear and you will face a much higher lawsuit cost then with your M3.
Please don't post such B.S. telling people you will selling the car because you asume it could happen to you...
Jesus christ the way you act I bet you are the living paradise for any kind of seller/ dealer around the world.
Dude, even if your bearing's fail....you are nit automatically facing a bill of 20k!
Crankshaft and bearing might go down south...but not always the whole engine so there are alway's a billion other way's to get the car running, before you really need a complete new engine.
Man, just calm down, stay relaxed and freaking, by all mean's enjoy your car!
Believe me it's one of the best car's you can have on the market, even if it would be MY 2008!
Oh and if it happen to you, knowledge yourself and tackle the job on your own!
Get those bearing's for a couple of hundred buck's and just have fun and enjoy your life!!!!!!!!!

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by IIAp3x

agreed... When was the last time anyone saw pics of clean bearings removed from an E92 M3 that actually looked healthy?

There have been a bunch of threads here showing bearings slightly worn but by no means did they need replacement.