Blown motors, Rod Bearing failure S65 Registry.

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by s85e90

Not really?

I can build an aftermarket block, built ls7 for cheaper than a BMW> Yes the ls7 is expensive in the ls world, but again not relative to a BMW m3 engine.

Makes sense because most vette/M3 owners buy a bare short block engine to rebuild as a diy project when they need a new engine.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

You got schooled, LS7's aren't cheap ... depends on where you shop? Hahahaha

here is one from chevy for a mere $16k http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...gines/ls7.html

and an even cheaper one at $14k http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...4098/overview/

And you can get a Ford 5L coyote engine for $7k and the high performance road runner version in the boss 302 for $12k. http://www.domestic**********/showth...om-Ford-Racing

How the hell can BMW keep a straight face and ask a whopping $25k for an S65?

[pbonsalb]

I bought the wrong car. I should have gotten a 4 door Vette or Stang. How often do you replace engines in your car?

[JPH704]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I bought the wrong car. I should have gotten a 4 door Vette or Stang. How often do you replace engines in your car?

Only on Thursdays

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

Makes sense because most vette/M3 owners buy a bare short block engine to rebuild as a diy project when they need a new engine.

Ones who have a clue do. I don't think you get it.

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by Petros

here is one from chevy for a mere $16k http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...gines/ls7.html

and an even cheaper one at $14k http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...4098/overview/

And you can get a Ford 5L coyote engine for $7k and the high performance road runner version in the boss 302 for $12k. http://www.domestic**********/showth...om-Ford-Racing

How the hell can BMW keep a straight face and ask a whopping $25k for an S65?

M tax. Sadly you can see the M tax passing aaway and being validated that we are overcharged based on the e46 car in some cases. Now that the new demogrpahic is younger w/ less money (so to speak) they kind of set the market on what they're willing to pay.

Kind of like price gouging by vendors really, no? You're charged an amount that people think you're willing to pay based on seeing your financial condition of what you drive.

[PerfM5]

Add my '08 to the casualties. Spun bearing on cylinder 1 and scored the crank. New OEM engine approved thanks to 3rd party warranty.

Work being performed at PitStop Motor Tuning in Glendale, CA.
Contact me if you have any questions.

[SilentAttack]

How many miles?

[Aubie4Pres]

Originally Posted by PERFM3

Add my '08 to the casualties. Spun bearing on cylinder 1 and scored the crank. New OEM engine approved thanks to 3rd party warranty.

Work being performed at PitStop Motor Tuning in Glendale, CA.
Contact me if you have any questions.

Which warranty company?

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by Petros

here is one from chevy for a mere $16k http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...gines/ls7.html

and an even cheaper one at $14k http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...4098/overview/

And you can get a Ford 5L coyote engine for $7k and the high performance road runner version in the boss 302 for $12k. http://www.domestic**********/showth...om-Ford-Racing

How the hell can BMW keep a straight face and ask a whopping $25k for an S65?

That's because the new S65 is around $18k and the new engine is not going to install itself.

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by s85e90

Ones who have a clue do. I don't think you get it.

You're one of those guys who dont know when they're wrong, every forum got one. They keep arguing till they wear you out.

Both engines are expensive,long block vs long block, I understand you could built an LS7 from a bare block blah blah...

I wouldn't call the LS7 cheap, it's as dumb as sayin the M4 is cheap because there are cars that cost 10 grand more.

You went from the LS7 is cheap period, to cheap in comparison, to cheap if I build it from an aftermarket bare block. Lol

[PandaM3]

Originally Posted by PERFM3

Add my '08 to the casualties. Spun bearing on cylinder 1 and scored the crank. New OEM engine approved thanks to 3rd party warranty.

Work being performed at PitStop Motor Tuning in Glendale, CA.
Contact me if you have any questions.

Which 3rd party warranty do you have? Curious what the process is in case it ever happens... My car has a Maxcare warranty from Carmax.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

That's because the new S65 is around $18k and the new engine is not going to install itself.

are you talking about a brand new engine or a remanufactured one? I remember reading a remanufactured engine is around $16k or so.

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

You're one of those guys who dont know when they're wrong, every forum got one. They keep arguing till they wear you out.

Both engines are expensive,long block vs long block, I understand you could built an LS7 from a bare block blah blah...

I wouldn't call the LS7 cheap, it's as dumb as sayin the M4 is cheap because there are cars that cost 10 grand more.

You went from the LS7 is cheap period, to cheap in comparison, to cheap if I build it from an aftermarket bare block. Lol

I'm tired of going back and forth and yes sometimes I come off as I dunno maybe ? arrogant? I dunno, but more hard headed. Yes I'm right. I know the Ls7 is one of the most expensive of the Ls based motors; however, I thought it was assumed that yes, relative to replacing a BMW s65 it's much cheaper.

And can you source an aftermarker block for the s65? Ever price a set of pistons for an s65 versus an Ls7? (BTW I have also had a z06 so I know what I'm talking about).

Long block to long block, while still real expensive by any means, an Ls7 is gonna be cheaper than a s65 from BMW, but we're all enthusiasts on a forum, so I think you're silly for thinking someone would go right to the dealer and pay for a motor. Salvage yards are still wanting some coin for a used ls7 too, but I could build one from BETTER aftermarket parts including the block for a whole lot less than what it would cost to build/rebuild. an s65



Used prices for junkyard

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

Makes sense because most vette/M3 owners buy a bare short block engine to rebuild as a diy project when they need a new engine.

Yes, most real car guys build better stuff when the OEM shit breaks.

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

You got schooled, LS7's aren't cheap ... depends on where you shop? Hahahaha

Yes, depends on where you shop.. You go to the GM parts counter and I will build a dart block based 427 that'll handle well over 1000 hp and be much cheaper to boot.

I'm sorry I came off that way or was miscontrued ? You gotta remember that a majority here will pay the dealer to change the oil (not that there's anything wrong w/ that)

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by s85e90

M tax. Sadly you can see the M tax passing aaway and being validated that we are overcharged based on the e46 car in some cases. Now that the new demogrpahic is younger w/ less money (so to speak) they kind of set the market on what they're willing to pay.

Kind of like price gouging by vendors really, no? You're charged an amount that people think you're willing to pay based on seeing your financial condition of what you drive.

For the most part with the new cheap aftermarket stuff, you get what you pay for. Those who still care about their e46's are still paying for the good stuff.

It's not "M tax"-- its the amount of development required to make something better than BMW did (not easy), without making the car significantly worse in some other way, combined with low volume of sales (due to smaller production runs of M cars vs others) to spread that cost over (along with lower economies of scale in production).

If you want easy/big gains from the aftermarket, get a car that's not well optimized from the factory that they sold in high volume

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by Obioban

For the most part with the new cheap aftermarket stuff, you get what you pay for. Those who still care about their e46's are still paying for the good stuff.

It's not "M tax"-- its the amount of development required to make something better than BMW did (not easy), without making the car significantly worse in some other way, combined with low volume of sales (due to smaller production runs of M cars vs others) to spread that cost over (along with lower economies of scale in production).

If you want easy/big gains from the aftermarket, get a car that's not well optimized from the factory that they sold in high volume

While I understand this to a point, I'm getting tired of hearing R&D costs. What kind of R&D goes into making a jig for a Lambo Gallardo muffler setup that makes it cost $5,000?

To an extent, yes we're dealing with a limited market; however, I have also been around the other M forum for quite some time and am seeing now that the new breed of owners (whether they are cheap kids or not, most are cause the cars are now affordable) are not willing to pay M tax pricing and prices are dropping.

Why is a tune for an e46 $500 versus over $1,000 for the e9x? Why is an aftermarker oil cooler $ 1,000. Wheres the R&D in larger bar/plate oil cooler. I'm 99% certain no one is loosing sleep at the drawing board developing oil coolers. The point I was making is simply that the more expensive/niche the car is = the greater the cost of the A/M parts. Is some of this due to R&D? Maybe.. Most is a simple equation of economies of scale.

People will charge what people are willing to spend. And it's worked thus far.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by s85e90

While I understand this to a point, I'm getting tired of hearing R&D costs. What kind of R&D goes into making a jig for a Lambo Gallardo muffler setup that makes it cost $5,000?

To an extent, yes we're dealing with a limited market; however, I have also been around the other M forum for quite some time and am seeing now that the new breed of owners (whether they are cheap kids or not, most are cause the cars are now affordable) are not willing to pay M tax pricing and prices are dropping.

Why is a tune for an e46 $500 versus over $1,000 for the e9x? Why is an aftermarker oil cooler $ 1,000. Wheres the R&D in larger bar/plate oil cooler. I'm 99% certain no one is loosing sleep at the drawing board developing oil coolers. The point I was making is simply that the more expensive/niche the car is = the greater the cost of the A/M parts. Is some of this due to R&D? Maybe.. Most is a simple equation of economies of scale.

People will charge what people are willing to spend. And it's worked thus far.

Most of the cheaper stuff is copies or copies of copies of existing stuff, often produced in China. Not people doing R&D, not the best stuff. I'm still running a $1000 tune and installed a $1000 oil cooler last month (because, in fact, there's a large range of effectiveness of oil coolers).

I think a more accurate assessment is that as the car gets older, a lower category of copycat and crappier products comes to the forefront, that there's no market for when the car is owned by people with the money to afford the good stuff.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by Obioban

Most of the cheaper stuff is copies or copies of copies of existing stuff, often produced in China. Not people doing R&D, not the best stuff. I'm still running a $1000 tune and installed a $1000 oil cooler last month (because, in fact, there's a large range of effectiveness of oil coolers).

I think a more accurate assessment is that as the car gets older, a lower category of copycat and crappier products comes to the forefront, that there's no market for when the car is owned by people with the money to afford the good stuff.

sorry but your argument is just fanboyism and elitism. there is no doubt build quality, R&D, and economies of scale do apply to pricing for aftermarket parts. But there is also an element of price gouging that no one can deny. Manufacturers and vendors like to charge what they think the market will bear. And the price and status of the car is an indication of how much disposable income you have and therefore how much you are willing to pay for a certain part. Take test pipes for example. For an M3 they cost $400 or so. You can get a similar part for a Mustang for only $150. Why is that? What is the R&D involved? All you do is just take a few measurements, cut and weld some steel pipes, and make sure it fits properly. Heck, if I had the tools and skill, I could make my own test pipes in my garage.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Petros

sorry but your argument is just fanboyism and elitism. there is no doubt build quality, R&D, and economies of scale do apply to pricing for aftermarket parts. But there is also an element of price gouging that no one can deny. Manufacturers and vendors like to charge what they think the market will bear. And the price and status of the car is an indication of how much disposable income you have and therefore how much you are willing to pay for a certain part. Take test pipes for example. For an M3 they cost $400 or so. You can get a similar part for a Mustang for only $150. Why is that? What is the R&D involved? All you do is just take a few measurements, cut and weld some steel pipes, and make sure it fits properly. Heck, if I had the tools and skill, I could make my own test pipes in my garage.

Price gouging implies someone is getting rich, yes? Do you know any BMW tuners outside of Dinan that have made it rich? If not, they're charging what's needed to make it work.

If you had the tools and the skill, there's lots of things you could make

Test pipes are also a fairly isolated example as you're bypassing a requirement that BMW had to meet (emissions) instead of improving the part.

That said, if you there's a market for cheap parts for new BMW's... Go do it! You'll make it rich if you're correct

[///M Power-Belgium]

DAMN !!!
Another one bites the dust,with video link on this page => http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1043224