Blown motors, Rod Bearing failure S65 Registry.

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

If multiple manufacturers spec the Mobil 1 0W40 that means the oil is a good product and is not just recommended because of some silly marketing deal. For a manufacturer to recommend a "single oil and grade" for all climates and seasons and for that oil to be specific to BMW M smells of a marketing agreement if you ask me. Even if they recommended it for the track and recommended a different oil more suited to the street/winter/cooler climates I would be better able to understand the rationale of using the 10W60.

Yeah but from a guy who claims to be very knowledgeable and builds engines stating well if x uses it it must be good is just a dumb statement. I have no doubt that it's partly marketing but that explains the castrol relationship only not the actual oil weight. Just like any other car with an oil label on the cap prob gets kick backs to the oil companies. I remember when the Evo came out the oil cap said Mobil 1 recommended, just like the P cars, etc. etc. etc. This still doesn't have any meaning as to why BMW specd running something like a 10 60.

The 10 60 was originally only listed after the whole e46 debacle. It was at this time that BMW started mandating the 10 60 after all the motors started eating rod bearings.


Makes me wonder.... Maybe some of the higher ups are not smart at all at BMW... Like really just clueless and after all the old bearings failed, some guy just said, let's run thicker oil to get in all the crevices and stay there (I know backwards logic) and that's how it started. Who knows? We probaly never will. But 10 60 is an odd weight.

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by s85e90

Yeah but from a guy who claims to be very knowledgeable and builds engines stating well if x uses it it must be good is just a dumb statement. I have no doubt that it's partly marketing but that explains the castrol relationship only not the actual oil weight. Just like any other car with an oil label on the cap prob gets kick backs to the oil companies. I remember when the Evo came out the oil cap said Mobil 1 recommended, just like the P cars, etc. etc. etc. This still doesn't have any meaning as to why BMW specd running something like a 10 60.

The 10 60 was originally only listed after the whole e46 debacle. It was at this time that BMW started mandating the 10 60 after all the motors started eating rod bearings.


Makes me wonder.... Maybe some of the higher ups are not smart at all at BMW... Like really just clueless and after all the old bearings failed, some guy just said, let's run thicker oil to get in all the crevices and stay there (I know backwards logic) and that's how it started. Who knows? We probaly never will. But 10 60 is an odd weight.

First off, I don't claim to be anything other than a guy who builds engines and that I have relevant experience.

Second, I didn't say the oil is good because certain manufacturers use it, I say the oil is good because of the base stock, additive pack, VI#, and great cold flow yet good hi-temp stability. If the manufacturers of some of the best engines in the world with much higher outputs and some with even higher redlines than the S65...... Fitted in cars that arguably are more purpose built for track duty than the M3....... Spec the M1 0W40, that only solidifies my endorsement of it.

I love my M3 and S65 V8 but the 10W60 oil made no sense to me from day one, especially on a car that "most" people daily drive. Also the fact that the only oil that is (was) approved for use is an engine oil with a BMW part number that you have to pay a premium for from a dealer is just plain silly. You can go downtown to Autozone/Walmart and buy oil for a $300K Porsche GT2 or $150K GT3RS but gotta get oil for your $70K M3 from the dealer only and pay twice as much for it. If that don't smell like a marketing agreement than I don't know what does!

[SenorFunkyPants]

Castrol and BMW work together to develop the 10W60 oil for use in certain M engines and continue to recommend it for some 12 years. The specific property of this oil that is desired is its high film strength which comes at some cost - financial and in decreased efficiency.
The apparent attraction of Mobil 1 is that it is cheaper, a little bit thinner and lots of manufacturers use it.
So lets change from an oil in constant development for this engine to a generic one customized for no one. An oil with a lower film strength that will be thinner at high temps and at a lower pressure.
What could possibly go wrong?
Well there is the rise in iron shown in uoas and a rise in oil consumption.
But apart from that.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Castrol and BMW work together to develop the 10W60 oil for use in certain M engines and continue to recommend it for some 12 years. The specific property of this oil that is desired is its high film strength which comes at some cost - financial and in decreased efficiency.
The apparent attraction of Mobil 1 is that it is cheaper, a little bit thinner and lots of manufacturers use it.
So lets change from an oil in constant development for this engine to a generic one customized for no one. An oil with a lower film strength that will be thinner at high temps and at a lower pressure.
What could possibly go wrong?
Well there is the rise in iron shown in uoas and a rise in oil consumption.
But apart from that.

There is also a significant decrease in bearing wear metals and those who have tested it have proven oil pressure to remain in the acceptable range

[SenorFunkyPants]

AIUI film strength is in part also a function of oil pressure.
Note also that lowering the oils viscosity not only reduces the film strength but also the film thickness.

[Obioban]

Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable running a thinner oil without an oil pressure gauge to verity that I'm not losing oil pressure in my climate with my driving cycle. And I'd want to keep it for, say, when I'm at VIR on a 104 degree day. Too much possible consequence.

... Which is why I'm running m1 0w-40 in the m5, which was originally speced with both 5w-30 and 10w-60, but am sticking with tws in the m3, which was only ever speced with 10w-60, until I get an oil pressure gauge.

I do believe M1 to be a superior oil to tws, but not necessarily a better oil for the specific engine for all use. The M engines, particularly the s54, are very highly stressed, non typical usage cycle engines.

[V1.47fan]

How I feel after reading this whole thread.

[JPH704]

thread makes me want to dump my car.
2007.5+ 997 sounding better every day...

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

How I feel after reading this whole thread.

It seems you like big boobs !

[Helmsman]

Na, think he miss his mam....

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Na, think he miss his mam....

Jesus Nik ! I'm

[JYTsky]

got a engine replaced by the dealer under warranty.. 2011 e92 m3 @ 36k miles.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by JYTsky

got a engine replaced by the dealer under warranty.. 2011 e92 m3 @ 36k miles.

Bearing failure ?

[M33DDIE]

My engine was replaced by the BMW dealer I bought it from 200 miles before I bought it. Only found out after I bought it. When I rang to find out why they told me it was using too much oil. Am I correct in saying that the later engines have modified parts? If so the engine in my car was fitted in November 2012, here's the warranty bill! £13k that's without the VAT (20% tax) and it'll be near cost price too!


image by marriotteddie, on Flickr

[aus]

Interesting we're starting to see more Euro/Aussie engines now.

.

[swifty]

Originally Posted by M33DDIE

My engine was replaced by the BMW dealer I bought it from 200 miles before I bought it. Only found out after I bought it. When I rang to find out why they told me it was using too much oil. Am I correct in saying that the later engines have modified parts? If so the engine in my car was fitted in November 2012, here's the warranty bill! £13k that's without the VAT (20% tax) and it'll be near cost price too!


image by marriotteddie, on Flickr

Can you define what they mean by it's using too much oil. How much was too much in your case?

[M33DDIE]

Originally Posted by swifty

Can you define what they mean by it's using too much oil. How much was too much in your case?

I'm not really sure. It was the owner before me that had the engine changed. He only owned it about 8 months and I think that he gave it back to the dealer when the engine needed replacing. The car had only done 150 miles in 6 months on the new engine by the time I bought it, I think all those miles where done by the dealer.

I never knew it had a new engine until a few months after I bought it. I wasn't best pleased because I had asked for a run down on the history of the car before I purchased it and the engine was never mentioned.

On the invoice there is some labour for removing a piston so I assume there was an issue with a piston and they obviously decided that it needed a new engine. My car only had 35k miles on the clock and its an 08 car, looking at the service history the car was serviced on time but about 2 years between each service so I don't think it was loved by an enthusiast!

I suppose its a good thing that I have a 6 year old car with a 10000 miles 2 year old engine! I also managed to get another years warranty out of them for not being honest with me. So far touch wood I've had no issues with the car, I was thinking of going for more power but I think I'll continue with the warranty instead. I worries me about the cost of repairs, especially when it has been so reliable so far, that will come to an end one day for sure.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Sounds like some sort of piston ring failure that scored the bore.
I wouldn't be at all unhappy with having a new engine although the dealer not telling you about it was very poor indeed.

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Sounds like some sort of piston ring failure that scored the bore.
I wouldn't be at all unhappy with having a new engine although the dealer not telling you about it was very poor indeed.

Sounds like scuffed piston to me.

[M33DDIE]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Sounds like some sort of piston ring failure that scored the bore.
I wouldn't be at all unhappy with having a new engine although the dealer not telling you about it was very poor indeed.

Yeah I know. To make things worse my car was booked in to get the bonnet sprayed due to a defect and some old lady drove into it (well so they say) and it needed a new front bumper and a mirror. They did a right shite job and nothing matched, I wrote a letter to their DP outlining the issue along with the engine change, told them I would reject the car if they didn't sort the paint and the warranty. They ended up giving me a car for a month and sprayed the whole front end! I have no stone chips at all now and the paint is perfect. The fact it has a new engine doesn't bother me now but if I had known about it before I bought the car I can't say whether I would have bought it or not! Maybe I would of because it was the only one about with the spec I wanted (CIC, DCT etc) In fact my car is the first M3 with the later CIC, my chassis is PY38093 (build date 01/09/2008) PY38092 has the older CCC.

[swifty]

Seems like the new corvette Stingrays are having similar issues...

"LT1 small-block V-8 introduced with the C7 lunched itself at 6000 miles, necessitating a complete replacement under warranty ...GM pinned tentative blame on a piece of metal debris (likely from a bad oil filter) that worked its way into the oiling system and wrecked a connecting-rod bearing, which created even more debris that damaged the engine’s bottom-end. Given the LT1’s tight tolerances and high-performance design, it didn’t take much to upset its workings. We’ve heard of a few similar accounts throughout the Stingray community and GM says it’s aware of the issue and is analyzing its manufacturing process for a root cause."

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...-update-review

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by M33DDIE

Yeah I know. To make things worse my car was booked in to get the bonnet sprayed due to a defect and some old lady drove into it (well so they say) and it needed a new front bumper and a mirror. They did a right shite job and nothing matched, I wrote a letter to their DP outlining the issue along with the engine change, told them I would reject the car if they didn't sort the paint and the warranty. They ended up giving me a car for a month and sprayed the whole front end! I have no stone chips at all now and the paint is perfect. The fact it has a new engine doesn't bother me now but if I had known about it before I bought the car I can't say whether I would have bought it or not! Maybe I would of because it was the only one about with the spec I wanted (CIC, DCT etc) In fact my car is the first M3 with the later CIC, my chassis is PY38093 (build date 01/09/2008) PY38092 has the older CCC.

Silverstone can be quite a hard colour to match - especially on a bumper if its anything like as hard as on a white car. Mine is an early 2009 MY as well, registered late Sept 2008.
I've had mine 5.5 years and still loving it as much as day 1 (especially the DCT which is brilliant).