2014 GT3 vs. 2011 E92M3 (pending)

[Triple M]

Originally Posted by FTS

I wish I could understand any of the logic behind any of the sw programming, I don't and I do not believe anyone outside of few at Porsche AG does either. However, I suspect that if any braking is applied to the outside front, assuming the computer thinks you are about to oversteer uncontrollably, it computes that more weight would shift to the front outside, unloading the rear, where it is needed more. I am just guessing here, I have no clue what the heck it does.


i think insurance is a great idea without a doubt, but which region of PCA enforces this? I have been with the PCA for 10 years, I have been a national-level instructor for 4 years and I have never heard of this.

Las Vegas PCA. What I meant was they enforce fire suit for all advance drivers.

[FTS]

I am sorry I misunderstood; however, fire suite thingy, again, first time I am hearing. Good for them I guess.

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by FTS

I am sorry I misunderstood; however, fire suite thingy, again, first time I am hearing. Good for them I guess.

Yeah, PCA Las Vegas is the only west coast PCA group that requires fire suits for the advanced group drivers. All the other PCA groups that I've run with (SD, OCR, GGR, Diablo) did not have that requirement.

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by mastek

Fixed.
Otherwise, all the pro GT3 Cup Cars and RSR cars would have nannies.

The car will be able to go faster with nannies off that's why the pros have them off. Hell, no matter how smoothly I drive when I'm going 9/10 the nannies will blip on every now and again which slow me down a bit. Sure I can probably squeeze another 1+ second out by driving flat out with the nannies off but there's little upside and a lot more downside to turn them off for me. That being said, I do occasionally turn the nannies off and slow down. The car turns into a completely different animal with them off and the scary factor goes up 10x by trying to go flat out. My point was that a computer can react a lot quicker than any human.

[mastek]

Originally Posted by USCTrojanMan29

The car will be able to go faster with nannies off that's why the pros have them off. Hell, no matter how smoothly I drive when I'm going 9/10 the nannies will blip on every now and again which slow me down a bit. Sure I can probably squeeze another 1+ second out by driving flat out with the nannies off but there's little upside and a lot more downside to turn them off for me. That being said, I do occasionally turn the nannies off and slow down. The car turns into a completely different animal with them off and the scary factor goes up 10x by trying to go flat out. My point was that a computer can react a lot quicker than any human.

I know what your point was....I am claiming that is incorrect.
Pro drivers will catch the car before the slide happens.
They are a total different human then the rest of us. Kinda like the difference between shooting hoops w ur buddies and then going to an NBA game.

I say keep the nannies on....like you said .....your not winning anything....and why risk the car for an HPDE. Having said that, it's what turns me off about driving Porsches and Ferraris at the race track....ive driven both and at the limit ..it is like you say ....the scary factor goes up 10x and you need a ton of seat time to get comfortable there. Thats why i think the M3 platform, along with a few others (Miata, S2000, even small Formula cars) are funner to drive and more rewarding when you get to the limit rather then punishing.

However, the 991GT3 is a totally different animal then all the others. I hear that this car is basically an automated track star....and anyone can yield great lap times up to 9/10ths .....and if a Pro drives it....it breaks records. Thats what i hear anyway.
I almost traded my F10 in for one.....but then the practicality fairy kicked me in the ballz and asked me where i would put 3 passengers and luggage picking up from the airport.

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by Triple M

Totally agree. Crashes (Which I've seen my fair share of at HPDE) are things that most people like to assume doesn't happen. There s a reason why pca enforces first it for advance drivers. I love the it's the beginner and intermediate guys who always crash. Other than a few pro racers on here most of us are gentleman racer at best (heck that's what they told me st skip barber a while back. Lol). Funny a few pro race teams use "race ABS", and "race traction control". My first time at any new track I always have the nannies on until I'm comfortable or just want to get silly sideways. Nannies off all the time for me = trailer

By the way was that your Orange M3 the BMW CCA event at Spring Mountain back in December? I wanted to ask you which exhaust you have on your M3. It sounded like an Akra but couldn't tell if you have the Evo or GT4 (or another) mid-pipe.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by mastek

I know what your point was....I am claiming that is incorrect.
Pro drivers will catch the car before the slide happens.
They are a total different human then the rest of us. Kinda like the difference between shooting hoops w ur buddies and then going to an NBA game.

I say keep the nannies on....like you said .....your not winning anything....and why risk the car for an HPDE. Having said that, it's what turns me off about driving Porsches and Ferraris at the race track....ive driven both and at the limit ..it is like you say ....the scary factor goes up 10x and you need a ton of seat time to get comfortable there. Thats why i think the M3 platform, along with a few others (Miata, S2000, even small Formula cars) are funner to drive and more rewarding when you get to the limit rather then punishing.

However, the 991GT3 is a totally different animal then all the others. I hear that this car is basically an automated track star....and anyone can yield great lap times up to 9/10ths .....and if a Pro drives it....it breaks records. Thats what i hear anyway.
I almost traded my F10 in for one.....but then the practicality fairy kicked me in the ballz and asked me where i would put 3 passengers and luggage picking up from the airport.

I personally love the challenge of mastering car control. If I bought a GT3, my goal would be to be fast in that car with the nannies off. I'm not there yet which is why I'm driving the M3 and it is very easy to keep in check at the limits. I'd rather drive a slower car with nannies off than a faster car with nannies on, but that's just me.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

I personally love the challenge of mastering car control. If I bought a GT3, my goal would be to be fast in that car with the nannies off. I'm not there yet which is why I'm driving the M3 and it is very easy to keep in check at the limits. I'd rather drive a slower car with nannies off than a faster car with nannies on, but that's just me.

Me too, although to each their own

I track my '02 E46 M3 with all nannies off. It teaches me car control.

I do not track the '13 E92 M3, with or without nannies. I can't replace the car if I crash, so it isn't a matter of insuring it.
It would no doubt crush the times I do on my E46 M3 even with nannies, but I'm going to the track to learn car control.

Now I'm thinking of getting a F80 for a future track car. If I go that route you can be sure it'll be without nannies.

[mastek]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Me too, although to each their own

I track my '02 E46 M3 with all nannies off. It teaches me car control.

I do not track the '13 E92 M3, with or without nannies. I can't replace the car if I crash, so it isn't a matter of insuring it.
It would no doubt crush the times I do on my E46 M3 even with nannies, but I'm going to the track to learn car control.

Now I'm thinking of getting a F80 for a future track car. If I go that route you can be sure it'll be without nannies.

A proper setup e46m3 can be faster then an e9xm3. Weight? More refined go fast bits available?
There are certain tracks that the e46m3 owns faster track records then e9xm3.

The F80 is fail at the track so far. A guy brought one to the track couple weekends ago and it sat in the paddock for most the day = overheating.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by mastek

A proper setup e46m3 can be faster then an e9xm3. Weight? More refined go fast bits available?
There are certain tracks that the e46m3 owns faster track records then e9xm3.

The F80 is fail at the track so far. A guy brought one to the track couple weekends ago and it sat in the paddock for most the day = overheating.

No doubt with enough mods a E46 M will be faster than a E92 M, but in reasonably stock examples it is not even close.

Bigjae and Kaiv both track both platforms and say as much.

The F80 track performance is really a question. If it doesn't perform due to overheating I will get a DCT E9X for track duty

[Triple M]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

By the way was that your Orange M3 the BMW CCA event at Spring Mountain back in December? I wanted to ask you which exhaust you have on your M3. It sounded like an Akra but couldn't tell if you have the Evo or GT4 (or another) mid-pipe.

Yessir it was. It's GT4

[Triple M]

Originally Posted by mastek

A proper setup e46m3 can be faster then an e9xm3. Weight? More refined go fast bits available?
There are certain tracks that the e46m3 owns faster track records then e9xm3.

The F80 is fail at the track so far. A guy brought one to the track couple weekends ago and it sat in the paddock for most the day = overheating.

Makes you wonder why BMW is not running the S55 in their current DTM platform. I told people who bought them to hold off, but couldn't wait. S65 forever, bearing issues or not!

[OC3]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

I personally love the challenge of mastering car control. If I bought a GT3, my goal would be to be fast in that car with the nannies off. I'm not there yet which is why I'm driving the M3 and it is very easy to keep in check at the limits. I'd rather drive a slower car with nannies off than a faster car with nannies on, but that's just me.

If you're of that mindset, I wouldn't wait. One of my track buddies (he's on this forum) used to track his E90 M3 on MDM, wanting to go DSC off, but didn't quite make that decision. Then, (due to the M3 overheating too frequently) he switched to a 996 GT3, which of course has no nannies (and, thereby, forcing him to control that car himself), and he has immediately clicked with that car and his driving ability just escalated thereafter.

I believe it was because he was ready (to turn nannies off and that it's not about lap times, but rather, controlling the car yourself thru corners) - i.e. his mindset was in the right place. And, it turns out, he has instinct for car control.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by OC3

If you're of that mindset, I wouldn't wait. One of my track buddies (he's on this forum) used to track his E90 M3 on MDM, wanting to go DSC off, but didn't quite make that decision. Then, (due to the M3 overheating too frequently) he switched to a 996 GT3, which of course has no nannies (and, thereby, forcing him to control that car himself), and he has immediately clicked with that car and his driving ability just escalated thereafter.

I believe it was because he was ready (to turn nannies off and that it's not about lap times, but rather, controlling the car yourself thru corners) - i.e. his mindset was in the right place. And, it turns out, he has instinct for car control.

Yea I'm really interested in it. I love drifting in 911's in simulators, but not sure how that translates to the real car. Cars like the m3 and lotus Elise are pretty realistic so I'm assuming I'll be able to adjust to a rear engine pretty quickly based on how I handle them in a sim. But until I drive a real one like that...

[surlynkid]

I must be pathetic. I put mine on a skid pad, and I still could not get that back end to move. It just kept pushing. It almost sounded like something was rubbing up front. It was weird. The M3 is another story. That back end will move all over with ease.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by surlynkid

I must be pathetic. I put mine on a skid pad, and I still could not get that back end to move. It just kept pushing. It almost sounded like something was rubbing up front. It was weird. The M3 is another story. That back end will move all over with ease.

You can't just add throttle as its pushing it will push harder. Have to shift weight forward on the brakes so they set then throttle to unsettle back end. Slower into the cone or whatever your using as pivot point.

[FTS]

Originally Posted by surlynkid

I must be pathetic. I put mine on a skid pad, and I still could not get that back end to move. It just kept pushing. It almost sounded like something was rubbing up front. It was weird. The M3 is another story. That back end will move all over with ease.

You are not alone

[OC3]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

Yea I'm really interested in it. I love drifting in 911's in simulators, but not sure how that translates to the real car. Cars like the m3 and lotus Elise are pretty realistic so I'm assuming I'll be able to adjust to a rear engine pretty quickly based on how I handle them in a sim. But until I drive a real one like that...

Only one way to find out.

I've seen your videos, you're ready. More than ready.

Besides, a car is a car is a car. It's all about feeling the slide right away, managing weight transfers, quick steering, etc.

Do eet!

[OC3]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

You can't just add throttle as its pushing it will push harder. Have to shift weight forward on the brakes so they set then throttle to unsettle back end. Slower into the cone or whatever your using as pivot point.

Indeed. To make the rear end light, which makes it prone to swing.

Or, just be liberal with throttle.

[CalSE]

I have no problem with the E92M DSC off at BRP. I've spun a few times already, and they were all (thank God) pretty uneventful except for the sand box that I create inside my M each time.

I am going to attempt starting with the GT3 nannies off at BRP during an Open Test Day when there is limited to no traffic. I will slowly decrease my lap times until I start to feel the limits of the GT3 or my life preservation limits.

First target practice lap time will be 2:30ish.

[surlynkid]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

You can't just add throttle as its pushing it will push harder. Have to shift weight forward on the brakes so they set then throttle to unsettle back end. Slower into the cone or whatever your using as pivot point.

That is a lot of rear weight to move forward.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by surlynkid

That is a lot of rear weight to move forward.

Your right it is but principal is the same in any car. You could try 100 lb springs up front so it really moves forward.