0W-40 vs 10W-60

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by dparm

Yep. Like I wrote in the other threads, these discussions make my head hurt. I'm flabbergasted.

This debate is more about the S85 and S65 engine design process than practical advise about which oil to use. I think most folks agree that between these choices there is not a lot of practical difference and both should be fine.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by swamp2

This debate is more about the S85 and S65 engine design process than practical advise about which oil to use. I think most folks agree that between these choices there is not a lot of practical difference and both should be fine.

Agreed, but as I've written before, it's pretty clear that people have dug their heels in and each side will never concede that they might be wrong or that there's even a middle-ground. "Keeping an open mind" just doesn't seem to be in the site's lexicon when it comes to this topic.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by dparm

Agreed, but as I've written before, it's pretty clear that people have dug their heels in and each side will never concede that they might be wrong or that there's even a middle-ground. "Keeping an open mind" just doesn't seem to be in the site's lexicon when it comes to this topic.

It is a truly polarizing topic and particularly open to speculation since BMW hasn't and likely never will share a single word about any aspect of the situation. However, again, with regards to oil choice I think it is a very small minority who believe that the original TWS 10W-60 is the "only" acceptable oil choice. Much of the rest of the debate specifically on BMWs design process should be grounded in what are known typical and best industry practices and these certainly include some level of matching of the engine to the oil. Thus again, I believe it is pretty well impossible that the design process for these motors did have much of the same.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by swamp2

It is a truly polarizing topic and particularly open to speculation since BMW hasn't and likely never will share a single word about any aspect of the situation. However, again, with regards to oil choice I think it is a very small minority who believe that the original TWS 10W-60 is the "only" acceptable oil choice. Much of the rest of the debate specifically on BMWs design process should be grounded in what are known typical and best industry practices and these certainly include some level of matching of the engine to the oil. Thus again, I believe it is pretty well impossible that the design process for these motors did have much of the same.

While BMW won't, a former Castrol engineer who developed the original TWS posts over at Bob Is The Oil Guy. I encourage people to go read what he has written.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by dparm

While BMW won't, a former Castrol engineer who developed the original TWS posts over at Bob Is The Oil Guy. I encourage people to go read what he has written.

Interesting, can you post a link?

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

Interesting, can you post a link?

Doug Hillary is the guys name

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by dparm

While BMW won't, a former Castrol engineer who developed the original TWS posts over at Bob Is The Oil Guy. I encourage people to go read what he has written.

Maybe a link to it ? Now i'm curious !

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Maybe a link to it ? Now i'm curious !

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...pics/3147943/1

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...pics/3147943/1

Interesting .... THX !

[W///]

Originally Posted by dparm

Agreed, but as I've written before, it's pretty clear that people have dug their heels in and each side will never concede that they might be wrong or that there's even a middle-ground. "Keeping an open mind" just doesn't seem to be in the site's lexicon when it comes to this topic.

Just read through the entire read. Dparm, what the hell is this Caterham guy talking about?:
"Are you talking about an M series BMW? No.
AFAIK dparm has yet to see oil temp's approaching 212F yet in his M3 which is why he mentioned he will report back after his up coming track day.
OVERKILL has never see oil temp's over 212F in his M5 and that including some hot laps at Mosport."

210F is the bloody operating temp.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by dparm

While BMW won't, a former Castrol engineer who developed the original TWS posts over at Bob Is The Oil Guy. I encourage people to go read what he has written.

I read the whole thread the other poster linked to. I found the entire thread rather non-enlightening. What was it in particular you found to be the opposite?

[FogCityM3]

Lots of reminiscing and storytelling on that oil thread (fun to read it its own right) but agree it was pretty content-lite.

[Amirsm3]

Originally Posted by W///

Just read through the entire read. Dparm, what the hell is this Caterham guy talking about?:
"Are you talking about an M series BMW? No.
AFAIK dparm has yet to see oil temp's approaching 212F yet in his M3 which is why he mentioned he will report back after his up coming track day.
OVERKILL has never see oil temp's over 212F in his M5 and that including some hot laps at Mosport."

210F is the bloody operating temp.

Maybe Caterham was thinking 210C instead of F. I denno, either way, shit was lols.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by dparm

Agreed, but as I've written before, it's pretty clear that people have dug their heels in and each side will never concede that they might be wrong or that there's even a middle-ground. "Keeping an open mind" just doesn't seem to be in the site's lexicon when it comes to this topic.

Arguing topics is what makes m3post interesting...you can hardly argue enthusiastically if you aren't committed to your position. It doesn't mean I wouldn't change my mind if successfully argued against, it just doesn't happen very often.
Anyway...I would be interested to know how the film strength of Mobil 1 0w40 compares to the Edge Pro 10W60. A high load point on the oil film occurs between the cam lobe and the valve buckets....its wouldn't be much of a benefit in using 0W40 if it gave better bearing wear but the valvetrain clattered like an old diesel 30K miles down the line.

[Obioban]

I hadn't considered the transition from TWS motorsport to TWS edge professional as a thinning to make it more S65/S85 specific. If so, you bastards! I want my S54 specific TWS motorsport back!

Anyway, actually contributing something: BMW is transitioning from Castrol to Shell as their oil partner, so things are about to get more interesting:

[SenorFunkyPants]

Wow...Castrol is going to be gutted about that.

[kawasaki00]

Pennzoil and Quaker State. LOL

[gatorfast]

Looks like the Pennzoil 5w-40 will be the future Euro oil of choice then for BMW. Still seems like the M1 0w-40 is the better overall oil based on my research though.

[W///]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Looks like the Pennzoil 5w-40 will be the future Euro oil of choice then for BMW. Still seems like the M1 0w-40 is the better overall oil based on my research though.

Well this should start a few more oil threads

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by W///

Well this should start a few more oil threads

No way man, i'm out of here ! Or wait.....we can always call Longwong !

[dparm]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Looks like the Pennzoil 5w-40 will be the future Euro oil of choice then for BMW. Still seems like the M1 0w-40 is the better overall oil based on my research though.

I would gladly use PU 5w40 in the M3. The new GTL basestocks are outstanding and give Mobil 1 0w40 a run for its money.


Also, as to the above post about BMW shifting to Shell: that is only for the BMW-branded oils, like High Performance 5w30 and whatever their LL04 (diesel) oil is called. Castrol TWS wouldn't be affected, if I read that right. However, there is Shell Helix Ultra 10w60 (aka Pennzoil Ultra)...so that might be a possibility.

BMW sources stuff from Castrol, Pentosin, and now SOPUS. I don't think this is a very big deal. Most owners won't know or care.

[G80indy]

Very interesting news