Dinan DCT Tune Review

[grantmax]

Originally Posted by Brooklyn Mark

anyone?

+1 for DCT vs Dinan software differences. Maybe we can get Benvo to weigh in.

Re: Alex and the GTS DCT software - I can say that while I didn't like a few things about the GTS software after having Alex add it to my car, none of them had to do with Alex or his workmanship. In fact, I have been debating making a post about my thoughts on the GTS software to detail the "other" reviews but have held off because I don't want to burn Alex.

[BPMSport]

We often find quite a few hidden errors from flashing that would get transferred to BMW after a session is completed on cars we've seen that previously had DCT software flashed. These include PT/CAN errors amongst others. Whenever we flash a car we ensure that these types of things are cleared into deep levels of the control unit. It's important to be as stealth as possible, clearing fault codes only is not sufficient in my opinion.

There are also a host of issues regarding software levels and certain situations that may render a control unit corrupted, but 9.8/10 times this would be recoverable.

I personally think that the DINAN software is pretty reasonably priced, and if I was an end user and didn't go with a tuners offering, that would likely be my choice. I'm not sure what's changed or what it is but it's clearly an improvement over stock. My E90 is 6MT - so I'm stuck with my left foot for now

[M3-S65]

Originally Posted by MFL

Considering that the GTS tune is an OEM program for the same transmission in a M3 GTS and the Dinan is 3rd party and is not warrantied past 50k miles. That guy that doesn't warranty his work doesn't have to because he's programming something that has already been vetted and warrantied by the OEM.

Let it be known, if the Dinan program causes your transmission go tits up and BMW hears word of it, they're likely going to defer you to Dinan for the repair bill. Full transmission replacement on these things run north of 4 figures from the dealership and Dinan won't warranty them past the new factory 4yr/50,000 mile warranty.

The GTS tune is good to go with my CPO warranty. It costs less and I'll bet the differences between them aside from the obvious price delta is marginal at best.

Your point 1...FALSE
This has been discussed, this is not OEM for our cars. It is OEM for a
GTS which is basically a race car with a roll cage and no back seats that BMW can state has a different overall set up that allows for the more aggressive and faster shifts...not our cars. If it was OEM we could all wander into BMW and request they put it on...try it. They wont do it...

Your second point...False
Dinan warranty starts at the time of install goes for two years. Also to the end of your OEM warranty.

Your point 3...Lower probability, your argument regarding Dinan's program and BMW referring you back to Dinan is plausible. However, at least you have that...and the relationship with BMW and their agreement to handle Dinan products in their warranty make this a low probability. Since this program is honored by BMW during a regular warranty period, their is a higher probability of them accepting it and servicing your DCT...

However, the unknown guy option is a higher probability of refusal regarding servicing your transmission. Why? because first their is speculation that it is not even the true OEM GTS program. Even if it was they could still refuse... Secondly, it was not installed by BMW and if it is not installed by BMW they can refuse simply based on the fact that they did not install it which opens up many avenues for their escape and refusal to service your DCT... like it was installed incorrectly, not appropriate for a regular M3 ...etc etc.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by M3-S65

Your point 3...Lower probability, your argument regarding Dinan's program and BMW referring you back to Dinan is plausible. However, at least you have that...and the relationship with BMW and their agreement to handle Dinan products in their warranty make this a low probability. Since this program is honored by BMW during a regular warranty period, their is a higher probability of them accepting it and servicing your DCT...

I suspect BMW just sends the repair bill to Dinan. That's how Stasis works with Audi.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by ///M Ryder

I know a few people subscribed to another thread, but that thread has been locked so I had to create a new one for the review.

So here are my thoughts. After getting the software loaded, I had a 50 mile (45 of that on the freeway) drive to test this out. As you all know by now, it does default to D2 just like the other tunes on the market. As I was pulling out of the shop the first thing I notice is how smooth the gear changes are in S4, (this is my normal setting). The next thing I noticed was how quick the gear changes were, (now I didn't think it was possible to change gears any quicker). Now as I weave my way to the on ramp, I encounter a small traffic jam......this was good news because I could now test the 3-2 and 2-1 down shift. All I can say is . There is absolutely and I mean no bucking when downshifting. When you downshift to 1st gear it feels really smooth.

Now that I am on the freeway I can open things up a little and run through some gears. As I stated earlier, the gear changes are instant when you pull the paddle. The rev matching, (throttle blip) is instant as well. Once I was in a clearing I decided to test the "Escape Gear", (accelerator floored and pull the downshift paddle). This was probably the biggest surprise......it immediately found 4th gear with no delay. This alone is worth the money. The next test was to load things up with the (M)agic button and see what this tune was really about. I will say this......if you are someone that likes that brut kick in the azz feeling, this tune is not for you. The shifts were lightning quick and non-violent. You can still feel the power of the gear change but it feels like all the power is still on the wheels and not in the tranny.

Last phase of my test.....picked up the CEO at the house and ran a few errands in rush hour traffic. I let her drive to the first destination so that I could feel the gear changes as a passenger. She opted to cruise in D3.....yeah I know...but anyway. The gear changes were so smooth, I found myself looking over a couple of times to see what gear she was in. Now keep in mind I'm running a full Dinan system. Heading back home I drove in S5 and the multiple downshifts were another great surprise. No delay in selecting a gear. You downshift and it follows......and this is all the way down to 1st. Once I was back at the ranch I had to test the instant reverse theory everyone looks for. If you are sitting still it is instant. If you are moving forward and select reverse, you still get the "conventional manual gearbox" <-------(this is how we will refer to you guys from now on ) feel. As for the memory....I left the car in S5 as my last setting and shut her down. Went back out to see what would happen and sure enough, she defaulted to D2 but my S setting was still S5. This is definitely better than the factory setting of maintaining the D settings.

All in all, this is a great upgrade compared to the factor software. And no I'm not a paid spokesperson for Steve and his mini empire. I'm just a guy that believes in Dinan products and have had great success with them............Phil

Don't mean to ignore your obvious improvement mate, but can't help wonder about these DCT tunes when reading about them as described sounds like the behavor of how they come OEM in Europe. Is it a modded SW, or simply a copy of the original...?

[Alex@Alpine]

Originally Posted by dpgfunk

I had the GTS DCT software loaded by Alex on my car and recently had my car tuned by a vendor on here. The tuner ran a check on my vehicle and found that Alex left a bunch of errors in the log without clearing it. The tuner also confirmed that the DCT software that was loaded on my car was NOT the OEM GTS software and was not able to identify what exactly it was. This didn't surprise me as I've read that most people were using a modified GTS DCT software to account for the differences in cooling between our vehicles and the GTS.

Not trying to blast Alex at all, but I really wish he would have done a cleaner job with the software upload - but you get what you pay for, right? So far no problems/issues with Alex's software and I do feel that the one provided by him is an improvement over stock. I simply bought into all the good reviews about his services and went to him without worrying about any potential issues - which was my own mistake. Just wanted to leave some food for thought out on the table for those who are considering his software vs. Dinan.

This is totally false, I do a FULL clear of all errors after every flash, and the software does not produce any errors period,

the vendor who supplied your tune/flash was just doing a bunch of negative information as usual

What is your order #

BTW, most of the people (vendors, if not all) got the GTS flash from me on this forum. I am not going to be play name games, but if vendor took the flash from me, and is bad naming me after, that is unbelievable.

[Alex@Alpine]

I generally do not comment on the forums as I always hate what it follows up to. I never advertised on the forums I do the GTS flash, I had customers who requested it and word of mouth spread.

I charge a fraction of what others charge for it so you can imagine what others are willing to say to kick me down.

This has to be the low of the low, clearing errors is 1. This is a MUST, or you will drive around with errors on your dash after the flash, when you clear errors on a BMW with factory tools, you do not have the choice of just clearing selected errors, you have to clear all of them!

So if someone is telling you that your vehicle was flashed, and errors remained from the flash, that is bogus.

I have done more DCT flashes then anyone on the forums, and I know a couple people who have had major warranty work done on their vehicles without a single issue, the many cars I have done, not a SINGLE person has had a issue or flagged by BMW, ZERO, I have done many BMW techs, BMW employees, salesmen, race cars, supercharged cars (I use a different flash for supercharged cars so they do not have the lag,) many vendors, and so on.

Cars across the world have the flash I provide.

I have no comments on the Dinan software, but if my memory is correct, I thought they stopped warrantying cars? It is the BMW dealership (a franchise) that resales Dinan software/hardware, not BMWNA or BMW Worldwide. A dealership is privately owned and franchised by BMW, if they decide they want to start selling X aftermarket parts, they can do some degree. I am almost certain Dinan is using the same exact GTS software as it is slipping across the vendor world.

[Jlm3]

Originally Posted by ///M Ryder

No....it's a stand alone tune..........Phil

Thanks!

[M3-S65]

Originally Posted by Alex@Alpine

I have no comments on the Dinan software, but if my memory is correct, I thought they stopped warrantying cars?

http://dinancars.com/warranty/

"If your vehicle is currently covered by the vehicle manufacturer’s new car limited warranty, Dinan products are warranted for the remaining term of the vehicle manufacturer’s new car limited warranty. The manufacturer’s new car warranty is limited to 4 years or 50,000 miles."

"Dinan Performance Products are warranted for a 2-year, unlimited mileage period from the date of original purchase. Dinan’s warranties are transferable when ownership of the vehicle into which the Dinan products were originally installed is sold."

[Alex@Alpine]

Originally Posted by M3-S65

http://dinancars.com/warranty/" rel="" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://dinancars.com.../warranty/</a>" rel="" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://<a href="http...ranty/</a></a>

"If your vehicle is currently covered by the vehicle manufacturer’s new car limited warranty, Dinan products are warranted for the remaining term of the vehicle manufacturer’s new car limited warranty. The manufacturer’s new car warranty is limited to 4 years or 50,000 miles."

"Dinan Performance Products are warranted for a 2-year, unlimited mileage period from the date of original purchase. Dinan’s warranties are transferable when ownership of the vehicle into which the Dinan products were originally installed is sold."

I stand corrected

...I still do not think they warranty the car like before, just the product they provided and if their authorized Dinan location believes that product effected anything else in the vehicle.

[maaicher]

Originally Posted by M3-S65

http://dinancars.com/warranty/

"If your vehicle is currently covered by the vehicle manufacturer’s new car limited warranty, Dinan products are warranted for the remaining term of the vehicle manufacturer’s new car limited warranty. The manufacturer’s new car warranty is limited to 4 years or 50,000 miles."

"Dinan Performance Products are warranted for a 2-year, unlimited mileage period from the date of original purchase. Dinan’s warranties are transferable when ownership of the vehicle into which the Dinan products were originally installed is sold."

I think what was being referred to was that Dinan products were once warrantied by most BMW dealers, however, this is no longer the case. The Dinan warranty, in addition to what you have posted, states that the vehicle needs to be brought to a Dinan authorized dealer to be covered by their own warranty (the Dinan warranty); this does not include BMW dealers. BMW dealers will in most cases (this is usually dependent on you having a friend at the dealer) never warranty a part that has been upgraded by anything other than a factory BMW part.

[maaicher]

I would also like to add that this thread was meant purely to be a +1 review for dinan by the OP. If anyone wants to turn this into pissing contest, they should take it to a separate section and create a new thread. There is no need to call on other vendors and force them to defend their own work in another vendors thread.

[///M Ryder]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Don't mean to ignore your obvious improvement mate, but can't help wonder about these DCT tunes when reading about them as described sounds like the behavor of how they come OEM in Europe. Is it a modded SW, or simply a copy of the original...?

Not sure how the DCT's behave across the water, but this is a great upgrade to the software for us. Now your question regarding the development of the software can best be answered by Dinan.

Originally Posted by maaicher

I would also like to add that this thread was meant purely to be a +1 review for dinan by the OP. If anyone wants to turn this into pissing contest, they should take it to a separate section and create a new thread. There is no need to call on other vendors and force them to defend their own work in another vendors thread.

+1........Vendor jabbing was never the intent of the thread. It was clearly a review that people were interested in reading. At the end of the day, you'll have a choice to tune or not to tune. You'll have a choice on who performs said tune. I just wanted to share my thoughts on the latest DCT tune available. I hope the review was helpful to some..............Phil

[MFL]

Originally Posted by M3-S65

Your point 1...FALSE
This has been discussed, this is not OEM for our cars. It is OEM for a
GTS which is basically a race car with a roll cage and no back seats that BMW can state has a different overall set up that allows for the more aggressive and faster shifts...not our cars. If it was OEM we could all wander into BMW and request they put it on...try it. They wont do it...

Your second point...False
Dinan warranty starts at the time of install goes for two years. Also to the end of your OEM warranty.

Your point 3...Lower probability, your argument regarding Dinan's program and BMW referring you back to Dinan is plausible. However, at least you have that...and the relationship with BMW and their agreement to handle Dinan products in their warranty make this a low probability. Since this program is honored by BMW during a regular warranty period, their is a higher probability of them accepting it and servicing your DCT...

However, the unknown guy option is a higher probability of refusal regarding servicing your transmission. Why? because first their is speculation that it is not even the true OEM GTS program. Even if it was they could still refuse... Secondly, it was not installed by BMW and if it is not installed by BMW they can refuse simply based on the fact that they did not install it which opens up many avenues for their escape and refusal to service your DCT... like it was installed incorrectly, not appropriate for a regular M3 ...etc etc.

1.
This IS OEM for our cars. There is nothing different with regard to the transmission on an M3 GTS.

2. The 2 year warranty is on the performance products, NOT on the fallout from anything they potentially damage past the original 4yr/50k warranty. IE if your strut tower brace cracks, they'll replace it within two years of purchase. There's a difference.

If BMW denies the claim, they don't send the bill to Dinan. That's on you to engage Dinan for reimbursement. They aren't buddies, they are two separate entities and they are also competitors in some way, hence BMW Performance Parts, Dinan even has their own aftermarket CPO warranty. Just because a private dealership may be a Dinan authorized dealer it doesn't mean that BMW and Dinan are playing tummy sticks in the back room.

3. BMW doesn't honor a damn thing from Dinan. There is no back channel agreement. Find one article anywhere directly from BMW or Dinan that says otherwise. BMW does defer to Dealerships for warranty decisions and Dinan Authorized dealerships are more lenient, but that's the extent of it.

[coloradoe92m3]

Actually gets tranny has beefed internals and more cooling hardware. So in my view its silly to run software. However I frankly don't think what's passing for gets software is actually gets. Its likely euro software slightly tweajes.




[
Q




UOTE=MFL;15783488]1.
This IS OEM for our cars. There is nothing different with regard to the transmission on an M3 GTS.

2. The 2 year warranty is on the performance products, NOT on the fallout from anything they potentially damage past the original 4yr/50k warranty. IE if your strut tower brace cracks, they'll replace it within two years of purchase. There's a difference.

If BMW denies the claim, they don't send the bill to Dinan. That's on you to engage Dinan for reimbursement. They aren't buddies, they are two separate entities and they are also competitors in some way, hence BMW Performance Parts, Dinan even has their own aftermarket CPO warranty. Just because a private dealership may be a Dinan authorized dealer it doesn't mean that BMW and Dinan are playing tummy sticks in the back room.

3. BMW doesn't honor a damn thing from Dinan. There is no back channel agreement. Find one article anywhere directly from BMW or Dinan that says otherwise. BMW does defer to Dealerships for warranty decisions and Dinan Authorized dealerships are more lenient, but that's the extent of it.[/QUOTE]

[M3-S65]

Originally Posted by MFL

1.
This IS OEM for our cars. There is nothing different with regard to the transmission on an M3 GTS.

2. The 2 year warranty is on the performance products, NOT on the fallout from anything they potentially damage past the original 4yr/50k warranty. IE if your strut tower brace cracks, they'll replace it within two years of purchase. There's a difference.

If BMW denies the claim, they don't send the bill to Dinan. That's on you to engage Dinan for reimbursement. They aren't buddies, they are two separate entities and they are also competitors in some way, hence BMW Performance Parts, Dinan even has their own aftermarket CPO warranty. Just because a private dealership may be a Dinan authorized dealer it doesn't mean that BMW and Dinan are playing tummy sticks in the back room.

3. BMW doesn't honor a damn thing from Dinan. There is no back channel agreement. Find one article anywhere directly from BMW or Dinan that says otherwise. BMW does defer to Dealerships for warranty decisions and Dinan Authorized dealerships are more lenient, but that's the extent of it.

So you know for a fact that the GTS has no transmission differences at all compared to the OEM BMW M3? Cooling, internals, indirect components that support the higher performance shifts etc ??If it is the same and BMW will honor it as OEM and work on your transmission, how come we can't buy it as an option from BMW or have them install it?

You have valid points in regards to the 'true" coverage of Dinan and the risks if you get the tune and something happens that BMW can relate or try to relate back to the tune. In analyzing the Dinan warranty further it does appear to have many avenues for you to not be covered. However, in regards to the GTS tune and it being OEM..I have discussed the DCT tune with DCT tuners and they all state the same thing...if your worried about keeping your warranty on the DCT then don't get the tune.
It appears to me that the bottom line is if you don't want any problems at all with warranty coverage on your DCT that avoiding the tune is the best solution.

[Alex@Alpine]

Originally Posted by M3-S65

So you know for a fact that the GTS has no transmission differences at all compared to the OEM BMW M3? Cooling, internals, indirect components that support the higher performance shifts etc ??
If it is the same and BMW will honor it as OEM and work on your transmission, how come we can't buy it as an option from BMW or have them install it?

Plus the argument was against getting a tune from some "guy" versus Dinan. You have valid points in regards to the 'true" coverage of Dinan and the risks if you get the tune and something happens. However, in regards to the two options..getting a tune from Dinan or getting a tune from some guy. The Dinan tune still is less risky and will at least reduce the probability of being refused service on your DCT. Sure you have to get with Dinan but the lone programer? Nothing, no shop...your on your own. Your only recourse is to try to convince BMW that the GTS tune that they never installed on your car, that you can not you buy from them, and that they should service your DCT because the GTS tune that some guy installed is OEM.......good luck with that.

I understand all your concerns, I am not some guy, I have been a vendor on the forums for many years, and many years to come, this is my life, I have no other job, or other income, this is what supports my family and I would not danger it in anyway possible. This why certain things I do not do.

I can tell you this, for every 50 customers I do, I get one person who writes a review, so you can imagine I have done hundreds of cars without a single issue or problem, my wife's m3 ran it for 3+ years, many track cars, I flash for many big names with many track cars.

I can not back anything like Dinan can since they are a multi million dollar company, people always tell me "do you guarantee nothing will happen." And that is my only pet peeve, always gets to me, because no one can guarantee, they can only warranty at most. But my track record should speak for itself, but I truly do understand your concern and your point, and I agree with you.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by MFL

1.
This IS OEM for our cars. There is nothing different with regard to the transmission on an M3 GTS.

That's just not true.

The GTS has different cooling and stouter cluch packs. While it is the same basic transmission, it has been upgraded for the extra power and/or intended track use.


As for this whole GTS tune situation, here's my two cents. Like anything else, it's up to each owner to be an informed consumer. Ask questions and do your research, and don't blindly follow others' advice. It's a $75,000 machine, so when in doubt, air on the side of caution.

[RR-NYC]

Originally Posted by MFL

1. This IS OEM for our cars. There is nothing different with regard to the transmission on an M3 GTS.

2. The 2 year warranty is on the performance products, NOT on the fallout from anything they potentially damage past the original 4yr/50k warranty. IE if your strut tower brace cracks, they'll replace it within two years of purchase. There's a difference.

If BMW denies the claim, they don't send the bill to Dinan. That's on you to engage Dinan for reimbursement. They aren't buddies, they are two separate entities and they are also competitors in some way, hence BMW Performance Parts, Dinan even has their own aftermarket CPO warranty. Just because a private dealership may be a Dinan authorized dealer it doesn't mean that BMW and Dinan are playing tummy sticks in the back room.

3. BMW doesn't honor a damn thing from Dinan. There is no back channel agreement. Find one article anywhere directly from BMW or Dinan that says otherwise. BMW does defer to Dealerships for warranty decisions and Dinan Authorized dealerships are more lenient, but that's the extent of it.

I really think you are making a lot of assumptions in your response.

1. The GTS software is NOT OEM on US cars. If your car us a US market car, it was purchased through and warranties under BMW USA. It's not even an option (manufacturer or dealer installed), thus not covered under the BMW USA manufacturers warranty.

2. Dinan's warranty is, as with all warranties in the US, written in plain english. If you car is still under the 4 year/50,000 mile warranty, Dinan honors their parts for the for the entire term of your new car warranty. If you car is beyond that warranty period, they warranty their parts for 2 years, unlimited mileage.

As far as how warranties are handled, according to the Dinan website, it says "The Authorized Dinan Dealer will, without charge for parts or labor, repair or replace the defective Dinan component(s), as well as any original vehicle manufacturer’s component(s) that may have been directly affected by a Dinan component, using new or authorized remanufactured parts."

I don't see where I am responsible for chasing Dinan for reimbursement. I bought a used Dinan exhaust from a fellow member here and the ceramic coating is flaking off. The dealer who installed my DCT software is working with Dinan for a replacement exhaust. They have no skin in the game on this exhaust but since they are a Dinan dealer, they're working to get the exhaust replaced under warranty.

[M3-S65]

What I would like to know/see is if this tune makes a difference at the track or not. Smoother yes but any more effective at the track? Does anyone have real world proven improvements at the track after this?

I see a problem with the Dinan ending in two years too. If your BMW warranty ends too and you get a extended warranty with a good insurance company you are at the mercy of the tune on your car being blamed for the DCT problem. However, if you keep it OEM your golden. I modified all my past cars and went off warranty but those cars were around 30k and american with low priced parts and easy to work on engines and trannys ...this is 2x the cost engine is expensive and the longer we own them the more problems may occur....

[Alex@Alpine]

Originally Posted by M3-S65

What I would like to know/see is if this tune makes a difference at the track or not. Possibly smoother but maybe no more effective than the normal ??? Does anyone have real world proven improvements at the track after this?

I see a problem with the Dinan ending in two years too. If your BMW warranty ends too and you get a extended warranty with a good insurance company you are at the mercy of the tune on your car being blamed for the DCT problem. However, if you keep it OEM your golden. I modified all my past cars and went off warranty but those cars were around 30k and american with low priced parts and easy to work on engines and trannys ...this is 2x the cost engine is expensive and the longer we own them the more problems may occur....

BMW dealerships get paid full pop with aftermarket warranties, so they do not stress people with mods as much as they would if you where under a factory BMW warranty.

I can flash any car I flash back to stock without a trace or count left on the ECU. If in the case a issue arises you can have your DCT flashed back to stock without a single trace.

[M3-S65]

Originally Posted by Alex@Alpine

BMW dealerships get paid full pop with aftermarket warranties, so they do not stress people with mods as much as they would if you where under a factory BMW warranty.

I can flash any car I flash back to stock without a trace or count left on the ECU. If in the case a issue arises you can have your DCT flashed back to stock without a single trace.

This is a big positive, would be hard to get that secret service with Dinan.
Is there some kind of reflash back to OEM program that can be offered that would remove the GTS tune and reinstall the OEM DCT? Without having to bother you whenever we need to? Or in case you go missing etc etc..
For example.... I used to own a SRT4 you could buy a hand held tuner from Diablo and flash their tune. However, you could reflash back to stock when you needed to.
Now we are talking with something like that..

You could sell a reflash safety program that could be used by the client....and when people wanted to reinstall the GTS tune they would contact you and you could resell them the GTS tune. Your price is already way low, I would not mind paying for the complete tune again if I had access to a "safety OEM reflash" at anytime.