Who Tracks W/ Stock Susp.?????????

[Sebringjetta]

ok so i went to thunder hill on sat and ended the day happy as i had fun but was really unhappy w/ my times.... i came from a e46 m3 that was gutted, caged, lexan, coilovers, etc.... i ended up totaling that car at t-hill and have since bought my new e92 m3... i have since put 380/355 st bbk, kw sleeve over, 275 square nto1, recaro pp...and exhaust...

ok so i wanted to keep the m3 as close to stock as possible as i figured the cars limits stock was better then my driving skill.., i changed the tires as the conti sport contact 3 were like a drift tire, stock seats i was sliding all over the place, and bbk as i was eating through the oem frnt rotors...exhaust was for better sound so i dont count that and sleeve over for a little better look...so with all that said i averaged a 2:09 at t-hill in my e46 m3....on sat in my e92 my fastest lap was a 2:07 but that was my last session of the day and was getting pissed as i couldnt get a decent run and figured i would just push it one lap and threw everything out the window... that was the fastest lap i have ever ran at t-hill but my average was a 2:14... for the life of me i couldnt pick up anytime....im not sure if my nerves were keeping me back as the last time i was there i totaled a car, my lack of track time in this e92 or the brakes and tires are too much for the oem susp.....most will probably say all of the above... all day the car felt loose and it was as if i couldnt get a good feel for the susp....

i see people asking all the time about who tracks on oem brakes but who tracks on oem susp. and how good really is the oem susp....i can predict my brakes and tires for the most part but was guessing all day when it came to susp and body roll if that makes sense...

[will.c]

Not e9x but oem brakes and suspension w/ street tires here. I have to constantly be mindful of the weight transfer because it rolls around a lot, and manage brakes so that they don't overheat/vibrate. But no matter how close to the limit of the car I think I am, I'm probably not.

But sometimes I do wonder if the soft suspension and crappy brakes make things more inconsistent and hinder my learning curve... like when my brakes give up every few laps.

[leo95se]

i do. it blows. the car leans too much, rolls a lot, and doesnt settle well over transitions.

got a new susp sitting in my garage though. cant wait to get it on!

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by will.c

Not e9x but oem brakes and suspension w/ street tires here. I have to constantly be mindful of the weight transfer because it rolls around a lot, and manage brakes so that they don't overheat/vibrate. But no matter how close to the limit of the car I think I am, I'm probably not.

But sometimes I do wonder if the soft suspension and crappy brakes make things more inconsistent and hinder my learning curve... like when my brakes give up every few laps.

i would like to think the extra body roll would make you a better driver once you install a full CO susp......thats what im hoping...

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by leo95se

i do. it blows. the car leans too much, rolls a lot, and doesnt settle well over transitions.

got a new susp sitting in my garage though. cant wait to get it on!

funny you mention the transition issue as the bypass and turn 9 have some extreme changes....made me pretty nervous at times... that would be rebound correct?????????

[s4one]

I tracked my e92 m3 and the body roll is excessive. I have a track e46 m3 as well with GC coilovers 850r/650f springs and the e46 is way more nibble around the track.

I think if you get some neg camber on your e92 it will help a lot. My e92 is stock camber and my e46 is -3.3 front.

[pkimM3r]

Pretty sure pros could drive better times on stock suspension and brakes than some of us (or get real close).

Think randy pobst did a 1:43 at laguna seca in a stock m3.

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by s4one

I tracked my e92 m3 and the body roll is excessive. I have a track e46 m3 as well with GC coilovers 850r/650f springs and the e46 is way more nibble around the track.

I think if you get some neg camber on your e92 it will help a lot. My e92 is stock camber and my e46 is -3.3 front.

ya the body roll was bad

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by leo95se

i do. it blows. the car leans too much, rolls a lot, and doesnt settle well over transitions.

got a new susp sitting in my garage though. cant wait to get it on!

Leo what's sitting in the garage ?

SebringJetta,

I run with a stock setup. Except for front camber plates which was MUCH needed to eliminate the mid corner push. Car would turn in great and then wash off.

I am on the East Coast and as far as lap times are concerned, in my instructor run group I am able to run with some modified E46 M3s and do not consider them a threat at all.

Suspension is plenty adequate for track use. Do they blow? Well its hybrid. I too was frustrated when I got the car but managed my driving around the softness of this suspension (previously was tracking a Vantage GT4).

If its lap times you are after, the car with camber plates, RA1s or NT01s square is plenty fast. Every additional mods get you marginal gains.

I have decided to keep it stock for 2 reasons:

1) Compulsive OBSESSIVE mod disorder. Its better to me to lurk around forums dreaming day after the track than make it a track monster which is neither here nor there (too stiff for the street, too heavy for the track).

2) Value. Tires, brakes, camber plates you can see value both in terms of feel and lap times. The marginal $ spent on consecutive mods on these cars (already a motorsport pedigree), I personally cannot justify. If I want a faster car, I am going to get the new M3 next year.

Hope this helps. My 02 cents, stay stock until you get rid of that frustrating feeling and mastered the car. That itself would be a learning and you can then really decide what you want to do with your machine.

Cheers,

Lutfy

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by lutfy

Leo what's sitting in the garage ?

SebringJetta,

I run with a stock setup. Except for front camber plates which was MUCH needed to eliminate the mid corner push. Car would turn in great and then wash off.

I am on the East Coast and as far as lap times are concerned, in my instructor run group I am able to run with some modified E46 M3s and do not consider them a threat at all.

Suspension is plenty adequate for track use. Do they blow? Well its hybrid. I too was frustrated when I got the car but managed my driving around the softness of this suspension (previously was tracking a Vantage GT4).

If its lap times you are after, the car with camber plates, RA1s or NT01s square is plenty fast. Every additional mods get you marginal gains.

I have decided to keep it stock for 2 reasons:

1) Compulsive OBSESSIVE mod disorder. Its better to me to lurk around forums dreaming day after the track than make it a track monster which is neither here nor there (too stiff for the street, too heavy for the track).

2) Value. Tires, brakes, camber plates you can see value both in terms of feel and lap times. The marginal $ spent on consecutive mods on these cars (already a motorsport pedigree), I personally cannot justify. If I want a faster car, I am going to get the new M3 next year.

Hope this helps. My 02 cents, stay stock until you get rid of that frustrating feeling and mastered the car. That itself would be a learning and you can then really decide what you want to do with your machine.

Cheers,

Lutfy

thank you for the help!!!!!!!!!!

[Z K]

I ran the m3 with stock suspension at thunderhill before. The stock EDC suspension is way soft even on the "sport" setting. The problem is the lack of rebound on the stock shocks. When you hit a bump, it takes a while for the car to settle. Fast transitions feel vague and there are some sections where it feels like the car is floating... not very confidence inspiring. I am now running KW V3 and it is much better.

Was that 2:07 with the turn 5 bypass? That is fairly quick! I run about 2:17 in the stock M3 with KW V3 with the bypass track setup. I pulled a 2:09 over the top of 5 (no bypass) in my stock-ish Evo but that is not a direct comparison.

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by Z K

I ran the m3 with stock suspension at thunderhill before. The stock EDC suspension is way soft even on the "sport" setting. The problem is the lack of rebound on the stock shocks. When you hit a bump, it takes a while for the car to settle. Fast transitions feel vague and there are some sections where it feels like the car is floating... not very confidence inspiring. I am now running KW V3 and it is much better.

Was that 2:07 with the turn 5 bypass? That is fairly quick! I run about 2:17 in the stock M3 with KW V3 with the bypass track setup. I pulled a 2:09 over the top of 5 (no bypass) in my stock-ish Evo but that is not a direct comparison.

Ya the rebound over tue bypass and turn 9 was scary.... the float effect was bad....

ya bypass config!!!

[1MOREMOD]

Yeah my stock e90 suspension felt slow and had to wait for it to take a set. Also felt floaty and made quick transistions sketchy.

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Yeah my stock e90 suspension felt slow and had to wait for it to take a set. Also felt floaty and made quick transistions sketchy.

Glad Im not the only one then...

[FormulaMMM]

Stock suspension feels great to me on track... No experience behind the wheel with coilovers though. Probably a good thing.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Stock suspension feels great to me on track... No experience behind the wheel with coilovers though. Probably a good thing.

Its like everything else in life, once you know what your missing its very hard to go back to less.

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Its like everything else in life, once you know what your missing its very hard to go back to less.

Well put sir!!!!!

[yandy]

I run stock suspension with swift springs, yea, it has it's short comings and will eventually be replaced, but I don't find it too bad. I remember reading somewhere on this forum though about bad experiences at the track with the "kw sleeve-over". Not sure how true that is. Did you track before the sleeve-over kit?

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by yandy

I run stock suspension with swift springs, yea, it has it's short comings and will eventually be replaced, but I don't find it too bad. I remember reading somewhere on this forum though about bad experiences at the track with the "kw sleeve-over". Not sure how true that is. Did you track before the sleeve-over kit?

no sir...went right on when i bought the car

[Petros]

I track with the front suspension, and yes it's definitely too soft and the car is vague and unstable in fast transitions. Given that Sport mode on the EDC only holds the dampers at 75% of full stiffness, I wonder if someone like Benvo can tinker with the software and tune it to be firmer, like he did with the servotronic steering?

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by Petros

I track with the front suspension, and yes it's definitely too soft and the car is vague and unstable in fast transitions. Given that Sport mode on the EDC only holds the dampers at 75% of full stiffness, I wonder if someone like Benvo can tinker with the software and tune it to be firmer, like he did with the servotronic steering?

For non ZCP, you are better off with running in Normal mode and NOT Sport because comfort and normal are in the active setting. Sport mode makes the car jittery. Feels good but not the fastest.

Advantage of ZCP is that even the sport mode is active (all three modes vs 2 for the non ZCP). Its more to do with valving of the shock than anything else. Unless someone else can confirm its software related?

The above observations on nervousness at high speed is correct (but manageable).

Lutfy