E9x M3 LAP TIMES (Road Course)

[TheKosherStogie]

1:59:2 @ Buttonwillow C13
2013 BMW M3
Engine / Exhaust: stock with dinan muffler
Suspension: KW Clubsport 3 way
Brakes: Stoptech w/ porterfield R4 pads
Tires: Hankook Rs3 275 all around
No Aero

Went and got corner balance/Alignment at West End. Really transformed the car.
Cut 2.2 seconds from last week by corner balance/alignment and race pads (instead of shit street stoptech pads).



Almost lost it on bus stop...pretty solid drift

In Car Harry's Lap Timer Video - shows 1:59:4 (transponder read 1:59:2 and the Solo Timer)

Also another lap from the in the car but you can see my steering on a 2:01 lap

[tightie]

Killing it sam!

[USCTrojanMan29]

Awesome lap time, especially on RS3s. I can't wait to get out to BRP with the RS in Jan.

[1MOREMOD]

i didnt think you were supposed to shuffle your hands on the wheel like that but keep them in position and rotate. thats what i was taught but may be wrong?

[TheKosherStogie]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

i didnt think you were supposed to shuffle your hands on the wheel like that but keep them in position and rotate. thats what i was taught but may be wrong?

Nothing wrong with that. Sometimes you have to turn the wheel more than your hands allow or you'll end up with your hands crossed over each other (left on the right and right on the left) which can be uncomfortable, lack grip of the wheel as well. Shuffling is OK! Also watch some drift vids from inside the car

Originally Posted by USCTrojanMan29

Awesome lap time, especially on RS3s. I can't wait to get out to BRP with the RS in Jan.

Thanks. Will be good to see you out there!

[Malek@MRF]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

i didnt think you were supposed to shuffle your hands on the wheel like that but keep them in position and rotate. thats what i was taught but may be wrong?

The M3's steering rack is not fast enough to always allow for this. Sometimes the hands need to move.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by Malek@MRF

The M3's steering rack is not fast enough to always allow for this. Sometimes the hands need to move.

I only have one corner at each of the tracks that I have to move my hands and that is the slowest tightest turn at each. Only had watched first portion of video but seemed to be every turn. If it works for you then do it. Sometimes I pull my hands and cover my eyes, or no hand throttle steer with big oversteer situations.

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Sometimes I pull my hands and cover my eyes, or no hand throttle steer with big oversteer situations.

Funny but when I was learning to drift, I kept spinning out until I let go of the steering wheel...then it worked!

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Funny but when I was learning to drift, I kept spinning out until I let go of the steering wheel...then it worked!

Yep let the car sort the front end out a bit rather than fight it and get big tank slapper.

[bigjae1976]

Shuffle steering is fine but it is more challenging to be consistent, quick and smooth when needed. Plus, seeing that as an instructor makes me giggle.

I have never needed to cross my hands over unless the car is sliding or spinning...in an E9X M3 or an E46 M3...all slower steering non-ZCPs. I drive some pretty tight and slow corners.

[bigjae1976]

Oops

[TheKosherStogie]

I'll give it a different approach next time but seems to work very well for me, very very happy with that lap time, I think it's very solid for the mods.

I feel more precise and have more control when holding a big angle turn. Feels strange having my hand between my legs. Feel like I can make more micro adjustments to the steering.

[OC3]

Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD

Nothing wrong with that. Sometimes you have to turn the wheel more than your hands allow or you'll end up with your hands crossed over each other (left on the right and right on the left) which can be uncomfortable, lack grip of the wheel as well. Shuffling is OK! Also watch some drift vids from inside the car

That's because your arms are like Arnold Schwartznegger's! Twist them like pretzels, of course they're gonna be uncomfortable.

[TheKosherStogie]

Originally Posted by OC3

That's because your arms are like Arnold Schwartznegger's! Twist them like pretzels, of course they're gonna be uncomfortable.

😂😂😂😂Hahahah you just killed me. Im dying. Maybe that's why!

[Billj747]

Skip Barber teaches shuffle steering. If you're comfortable with it then don't change.

[TheKosherStogie]

Originally Posted by Billj747

Skip Barber teaches shuffle steering. If you're comfortable with it then don't change.

Can't argue with this man or skip barber. Thank you sir

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD

I'll give it a different approach next time but seems to work very well for me, very very happy with that lap time, I think it's very solid for the mods.

I feel more precise and have more control when holding a big angle turn. Feels strange having my hand between my legs. Feel like I can make more micro adjustments to the steering.

If it works for you...it works. But if you go with some groups...don't be surprised if you get a comment. A version of a BMWCCA instructor manual is very much against shuffle steering. Honestly, I don't think what you were doing is REALLY shuffle steering. Not a bad idea in a long constant arc to reposition your hands to comfortably hold the wheel. I wouldn't comment on it.

I would on this...

But if you have a DCT car...I would recommend against shuffle steering.

[Sleeper519]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

If it works for you...it works. But if you go with some groups...don't be surprised if you get a comment. A version of a BMWCCA instructor manual is very much against shuffle steering. Honestly, I don't think what you were doing is REALLY shuffle steering. Not a bad idea in a long constant arc to reposition your hands to comfortably hold the wheel. I wouldn't comment on it.

I would on this...

But if you have a DCT car...I would recommend against shuffle steering.

^^ I agree. It's funny how certain things get ingrained into you. I was taught (strongly) not to shuffle steer by the BMW instructors, so I do the 9 & 3 o'clock and, with the DCT, never release even in the hairpins. I think it gives me a clearer proprioception and muscle memory feel when i'm turning. Also helps when unwinding the wheel on corner exit. I remember doing the wet skid pad at the Performance Center M-School (which I think you HAVE to shuffle steer) and doing long continuous drifts around the circle, with Mike Renner giving me unmitigated shit about shuffle steering the whole time. Drifting requires that as well, you have to let the wheel slide back thru your hands quickly. The down side is that in a spin you lose track of how much wheel lock is already in and how much is left to give, even if you have the fancy little colored tape on the wheel.

To each his own though, whatever works best for you. But, that guy's technique in the video would not hold up on the race track.

[Billj747]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

That's what skip barber teaches and what I do:

DDGT3 - I do what you're doing. I wouldn't necessarily change. But stop hitting curbs in the esses.

[TheKosherStogie]

^thanks

Hahaha I hit too many but I thought u want to go over the last right one to be further over so when going around the last left exiting the straight that it would be good to further right so it's less of a turn? it upsets the car too much?

[Sleeper519]

Originally Posted by Billj747

That's what skip barber teaches and what I do:

DDGT3 - I do what you're doing. I wouldn't necessarily change. But stop hitting curbs in the esses.

Those 2 videos are completely different. Billy, in your video you only shuffle on the first 2 turns and then you're only 3&9 after 1:00. Great car control. The cop guy is moving his hands all over the place. Night and day different techniques.

[Billj747]

Originally Posted by Sleeper519

Those 2 videos are completely different. Billy, in your video you only shuffle on the first 2 turns and then you're only 3&9 after 1:00. Great car control. The cop guy is moving his hands all over the place. Night and day different techniques.

T1 had a big oversteer moment while T2 is a tight hairpin. Both of which required a lot of steering input like the low speed tight autocross that the officer was on in his video. Since my car was very loose, it needed very little steering input and a lot of 4wheel sliding and neutral steer -which meant I was not steering much. If the car was more balanced, I would have been shuffling more.

Shuffle steering keeps your torso more upright for big steering inputs. I mostly use it for tighter corners or moments of oversteer. I've seen people spin and even wreck from having their hands glued to 9&3 and running out of steering correction input. IMO shuffle steering is a good tool to have and use when needed.

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