Stroker Kit or Supercharger for e92 M3? Cost for installation?

[brado]

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by Villanofun

Sorry, but why in the world do you need a supercharger to "drive your car around town"?

Because it's a lot of fun!!

[tightie]

Originally Posted by Villanofun

Sorry, but why in the world do you need a supercharger to "drive your car around town"?

I've been supercharged since 2009. I bought another M3 this year, drove it for one month being n/a and I really don't know how the f*&% every person does not have a supercharger.

This car sucks without it. Why the hell wouldn't you want your M3 to have another 100-150 wheel horsepower?

The real question is, have you driven or owned a sc'd m3?

[OM VT3]

Originally Posted by tightie

I've been supercharged since 2009. I bought another M3 this year, drove it for one month being n/a and I really don't know how the f*&% every person does not have a supercharger.

This car sucks without it. Why the hell wouldn't you want your M3 to have another 100-150 wheel horsepower?

The real question is, have you driven or owned a sc'd m3?

Couldn't have said it better even with an ess 650 kit I could have more power

[Villanofun]

Originally Posted by tightie

This car sucks without it. Why the hell wouldn't you want your M3 to have another 100-150 wheel horsepower?

Obviously having an extra 100-150 WHP would be great.

But you're willing to say that an M3 "sucks" without it? That makes you a complete tool.

[TrevorM3]

i'd rather power over "cool" factor in this case...


sooooo... supercharger.

[sales@ESSTuning]

I believe the M3 should have come factory equiped with a 4.4 or 4.6 motor as the 4.0 is a little lacking in power IMO compared to most modern sports cars. The Stroker motors do offer more TQ and a little more top end power that does improve the performance of the car but there is no comparison to a supercharger in terms of power and value if those are determining factors.

Given this was a manual M3 VS DCT M3 but you can still see how much more pull a 575 HP M3 with stock x-pipe has over a 4.6 stroker M3 with full exhaust.

[nullrouted]

Originally Posted by Villanofun

Obviously having an extra 100-150 WHP would be great.

But you're willing to say that an M3 "sucks" without it? That makes you a complete tool.

I don't know -- I think you may fall into the 'haven't ever ridden in/driven one' category he was talking about. I had the opportunity to ride along in an ESS-VT2-585 M3 before purchasing my E92 and I must say it does kind-of 'suck' compared to the VT2 car, even with the 'small' kit the power difference is truly breathtaking. My only hesitation now is whether to ride it out for another year or so until the M4 is out and upgrade that, or spend the money now and take pretty huge depreciation on the kit when I sell it for the M4 in a couple years.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by tightie

I've been supercharged since 2009. I bought another M3 this year, drove it for one month being n/a and I really don't know how the f*&% every person does not have a supercharger.

This car sucks without it. Why the hell wouldn't you want your M3 to have another 100-150 wheel horsepower?

The real question is, have you driven or owned a sc'd m3?

I disagree completely. I had a supercharger for about 10k miles and think this car is much better N/A, but I'm one of the rare few that prefer a balanced car over an overpowered one. I'd love a stroked M3, but for that kind of money I'd just get a faster N/A car out of the box.

[tightie]

Originally Posted by Villanofun

Obviously having an extra 100-150 WHP would be great.

But you're willing to say that an M3 "sucks" without it? That makes you a complete tool.

I'm a complete tool but yet, I was one of the first S65 owners on this forum. I was the first supercharged M3 in the United States and I was the first or one of the first lowered compression motor supercharged M3s.


I guess I have no idea what I'm talking about and your right, 350rwhp is better then 500,650 rwhp.

Originally Posted by radiantm3

I disagree completely. I had a supercharger for about 10k miles and think this car is much better N/A, but I'm one of the rare few that prefer a balanced car over an overpowered one. I'd love a stroked M3, but for that kind of money I'd just get a faster N/A car out of the box.

I respect your opinion, if a bolt on SC did not over heat on your track events, you wouldn't turn down your boost and have 50-150 rwhp? You would rather have the stock 350 rwhp?

I've tracked my m3 stock, it just doesn't have enough power in my opinion. I was at Auto Club Speedway yesterday, a extremely fast track. I actually used all 575 wheel on that track and actually wanted to go even faster but I don't have aero.

The tracks around here are all high speed, I actually can use the extra power a SC makes. If its a more technical track, (Buttonwillow) I agree, having that much power, is useless because your sliding around instead of putting the power down.

At the end of the day, I'm sure a bunch of people will agree that if the M3 had 100 rwhp from the factory, it would be the greatest of all time.

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by tightie

I'm a complete tool but yet, I was one of the first S65 owners on this forum. I was the first supercharged M3 in the United States and I was the first (lower compression) motor SC in the US also.

I guess I have no idea what I'm talking about and your right, 350rwhp is better then 500,650 rwhp.

[Villanofun]

Originally Posted by nullrouted

I don't know -- I think you may fall into the 'haven't ever ridden in/driven one' category he was talking about. I had the opportunity to ride along in an ESS-VT2-585 M3 before purchasing my E92 and I must say it does kind-of 'suck' compared to the VT2 car, even with the 'small' kit the power difference is truly breathtaking. My only hesitation now is whether to ride it out for another year or so until the M4 is out and upgrade that, or spend the money now and take pretty huge depreciation on the kit when I sell it for the M4 in a couple years.

Just the statement alone that the base M3 "sucks" warrants criticism. If the only theory is that it sucks when compared to a supercharged version, then you aren't really comparing apples to apples.

E.g., your GT3 sucks because I have a Koenigsegg.

Originally Posted by tightie

I'm a complete tool but yet, I was one of the first S65 owners on this forum. I was the first supercharged M3 in the United States and I was the first or one of the first lowered compression motor supercharged M3s.


I guess I have no idea what I'm talking about and your right, 350rwhp is better then 500,650 rwhp.

I will modify my previous statement. You are not just a tool, you are an idiot too. This response completely illuminates that considering that I couldn't have been clearer when I said that more horsepower is better than less horsepower. Not that I needed to state that. Because, you know, first grade math directs you to that conclusion.

Let me be the first to congratulate you (8 years late) on being the pioneer here. You are courageous and a great representative of all S65 owners to have ever walked on God's green earth. Thankfully, you discovered the supercharger, and further decided that the M3 was worthy of such a modification. Bravo, tightass, bravo.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by BMW Fanatic

WTF! LOL! ROFL!

Man oh man, this forum gets more obscene by the minute. Why would people pay $25,000+ for a NA stroker engine? Yes, everybody has their own opinions and in that case, I have mine too then...so let's go over this;
.

Do you understand you're essentially saying a $2 bottle of wine is better than a $100 one just because it gets you drunk faster?

Believe it or not, there are metrics beyond just speed when considering a vehicle. Take a moment and suck that in.

[BMW Fanatic]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Do you understand you're essentially saying a $2 bottle of wine is better than a $100 one just because it gets you drunk faster?

Believe it or not, there are metrics beyond just speed when considering a vehicle. Take a moment and suck that in.

Not at all. Don't assume what you think I am saying when what I am saying is written in clear black and white.

When it comes to this thread the base of the conversation lies in speed, power and reliability. To see somebody waste $30,000+ for something that doesn't perform as well as something that is less than $10,000, how can anybody justify that and not speak their mind?

I remember your build, you chose to get an individual colour and competition package but not something as common as nav...when it comes to resale you will have a hard time getting rid of that. Just like OP or anyone with a stroker will have a hard time of getting rid of their car. That's aside from what we are discussing anyhow.

Your opinion is yours and like I initially stated MINE IS MINE. For you to assume what you did and tell me 'Take a moment and suck that in.' just makes it clearer that you care only about what you say and do not have the courtesy to take in what others say.

[JEllis]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

I disagree completely. I had a supercharger for about 10k miles and think this car is much better N/A, but I'm one of the rare few that prefer a balanced car over an overpowered one. I'd love a stroked M3, but for that kind of money I'd just get a faster N/A car out of the box.

Interesting perspective. I feel, and have often read, that the M3s handling abilities outweigh its power. In that light, one could say that more power, within moderation, brings balance.

That being said, I was nothing but delighted with my M3s on track performance with an ESS VT1.

[Ezio]

there is for sure something to say about a n/a build. its give a more race car feel. loud, high revving n/a feel. but the gains are simply not there with the S65 IMO. if i was very very well off, and had other supercars in my garage i would love to do a n/a M3 build that was different from the rest. my M3 is my only sports car so i would get it as powerful as i could. so blower route will sound better to most people.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by JEllis

Interesting perspective. I feel, and have often read, that the M3s handling abilities outweigh its power. In that light, one could say that more power, within moderation, brings balance.

That being said, I was nothing but delighted with my M3s on track performance with an ESS VT1.

Most supercharged M3's are running slower track times than what an N/A (or even stock) M3 can do. The M3 is not an easy car for most to drive at 10/10th's stock so I'd say it has plenty of power. I'm not saying more power is bad, but it isn't sorely needed as people seem to make it out on this forum. I know there are guys on this forum who are running VERY fast on the track with their kits. But it takes a good driver to make good use of all the extra power. Most people here just won't be able to and slapping on a kit before you become an advanced driver only makes it harder for you to get there.

I ran faster track times once I removed my VT1 kit. Not because the supercharger made me slower, but because my driving was improving and the non-intercooled kit wasn't making much more power than N/A once it heatsoaked after a lap or two. And we are talking back to back track days. Went one weekend and ran a 1:44. Removed the kit and went again a few weeks later and ran a 1:43.

[ilikebmxbikes]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

Most supercharged M3's are running slower track times than what an N/A (or even stock) M3 can do. The M3 is not an easy car for most to drive at 10/10th's stock so I'd say it has plenty of power. I'm not saying more power is bad, but it isn't sorely needed as people seem to make it out on this forum. I know there are guys on this forum who are running VERY fast on the track with their kits. But it takes a good driver to make good use of all the extra power. Most people here just won't be able to and slapping on a kit before you become an advanced driver only makes it harder for you to get there.

I ran faster track times once I removed my VT1 kit. Not because the supercharger made me slower, but because my driving was improving and the non-intercooled kit wasn't making much more power than N/A once it heatsoaked after a lap or two. And we are talking back to back track days. Went one weekend and ran a 1:44. Removed the kit and went again a few weeks later and ran a 1:43.

But Bro, shouldnt your lap times with the SC be 30% faster with 30% more hp?

[Brian_VACsales]

IMO, people who buy S65 stroker kits and FI kits from us *never* cross shop. It's either one or the other for very specific reasons.

For a street car, a SC kit from a known company is the way to go 99% of the time. Our shop E92M3 has a VF620 and we wouldn't have done it differently in retrospect.

All of the S65 stroker kits we have sold went to track only clients. While the key components are 11k, the labor to build one and other necessary parts can put the actual cost well over 25k b/c you are doing an full engine overhaul.

I'm not saying a street stroker won't be awesome, but it's sheer bang for buck proposition is very low, ruling out most leads. We will develop a street tune soon just to have one for those who insist on S65 N/A goodness. Without doubt, a 530+ hp n/a S65 is just insane...

Now, Dinan has sold a bunch of street stroker kits, but their target buyer is quite different than what we typically see here on the forums. They are in a league of their own really when it comes to that niche...

We do have a lot of S14 strokers and S54 strokers on the street, but those cars have been around for ages.

[rev9k]

Originally Posted by Mike@VAC

IMO, people who buy S65 stroker kits and FI kits from us *never* cross shop. It's either one or the other for very specific reasons.

For a street car, a SC kit from a known company is the way to go 99% of the time. Our shop E92M3 has a VF620 and we wouldn't have done it differently in retrospect.

All of the S65 stroker kits we have sold went to track only clients. While the key components are 11k, the labor to build one and other necessary parts can put the actual cost well over 25k b/c you are doing an full engine overhaul.

I'm not saying a street stroker won't be awesome, but it's sheer bang for buck proposition is very low, ruling out most leads. We will develop a street tune soon just to have one for those who insist on S65 N/A goodness. Without doubt, a 530+ hp n/a S65 is just insane...

Now, Dinan has sold a bunch of street stroker kits, but their target buyer is quite different than what we typically see here on the forums. They are in a league of their own really when it comes to that niche...

We do have a lot of S14 strokers and S54 strokers on the street, but those cars have been around for ages.

you're right that cost is why you don't see them on the streets, but it's HIGHWAY ROBBERY to consider 14k in labor to build a motor.

[Brian_VACsales]

Originally Posted by hughs65e90

you're right that cost is why you don't see them on the streets, but it's HIGHWAY ROBBERY to consider 14k in labor to build a motor.

Who charges 14k labor? With a rebuild there is approx $1800 in new OEM parts...then all of the other parts necessary. Don't forget about, bearings, valvetrain, cams etc.

Again, DINAN has sold a bunch of street strokers...

[rev9k]

Originally Posted by Mike@VAC

IMO, people who buy S65 stroker kits and FI kits from us *never* cross shop. It's either one or the other for very specific reasons.

For a street car, a SC kit from a known company is the way to go 99% of the time. Our shop E92M3 has a VF620 and we wouldn't have done it differently in retrospect.

All of the S65 stroker kits we have sold went to track only clients. While the key components are 11k, the labor to build one and other necessary parts can put the actual cost well over 25k b/c you are doing an full engine overhaul.

I'm not saying a street stroker won't be awesome, but it's sheer bang for buck proposition is very low, ruling out most leads. We will develop a street tune soon just to have one for those who insist on S65 N/A goodness. Without doubt, a 530+ hp n/a S65 is just insane...

Now, Dinan has sold a bunch of street stroker kits, but their target buyer is quite different than what we typically see here on the forums. They are in a league of their own really when it comes to that niche...

We do have a lot of S14 strokers and S54 strokers on the street, but those cars have been around for ages.

Originally Posted by Mike@VAC

Who charges 14k labor? With a rebuild there is approx $1800 in new OEM parts...then all of the other parts necessary. Don't forget about, bearings, valvetrain, cams etc.

Again, DINAN has sold a bunch of street strokers...

to many on this forum this can be construed as saying @ 14K labor