ESS 550 Kit.. Tuned by Mike Benvo

[chris s]

Originally Posted by jamze132

Where was it stated that Mike Benvo doesn't have SC experience? Where was it stated that he didn't have hands-on with the car?

You seem to assume a lot.

Assumption is the mother of all fuckups

For starters, OP is in florida, benvo is in Cali.

[jamze132]

Originally Posted by chris s

For starters, OP is in florida, benvo is in Cali.

Again, I'm not saying he did or didn't have hands on.

but for someone to "claim" he didn't is irresponsible.

[RingMeister01]

Originally Posted by RJM3

It would be interesting to know why OP stopped replying and sharing his impressions about ess sc kit assuming he put more miles on the car.

Is the car still running?

OP obviously is monitoring this thread but for some reason went silent.

My assumption based on the lack of data provided and missing OP, is that this thread was solely created as an attempt to discredit ESS's tuning capabilities. As in Magic Mike is just so damn good and not even ESS can tune their own developed product over so many years as well as he can.

Threads like this are worthless without data/numbers. This smells like blatant propaganda.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

Well, we all know a lot more... I've been around long enough to know the history very well. Know most of the "players" personally. But I think it has no place within this thread. There is so much dirty laundry within that scene that we'd need a whole separate sub-forum to air this out. And boy would that get ugly fast.

True.

Ill just keep certain things off the forums to keep it fairly civil in here

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by chris s

For starters, OP is in florida, benvo is in Cali.

You are aware that this is the 21st century, and people travel by planes now, right?

Originally Posted by RingMeister01

My assumption based on the lack of data provided and missing OP, is that this thread was solely created as an attempt to discredit ESS's tuning capabilities. As in Magic Mike is just so damn good and not even ESS can tune their own developed product over so many years as well as he can.

Interesting how people read things. To me, the OP was just coming in here saying the facts: "Benvo tuned my ESS kit, and I appreciate his work."

[chris s]

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

You are aware that this is the 21st century, and people travel by planes now, right?

Sure thing buddy... Bet ya he didn't!!

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

SickeM3 didn't create a thread slandering BPM. He joined in an online forum offering his opinions on this matter. Just because he used the word 'fact' gives hardly anybody grounds for a lawsuit. This is just ridiculous and comical. We are all participating in a discussion, and within that framework it will be pretty hard to pick out certain quotes and label them as slander. I do question though how on earth this is even coming up. It almost looks like a desperate last resort to halt this discussion and train wreck, and we've seen this tactic before.

If you don't appreciate that it amounts to libel per se, it's because you're not a lawyer (or have forgotten a lot since law school). Why is this coming up? Because its irresponsible for people to assert facts about BPM's business that are untrue. Until that post, the exchange could, from what I saw, all be dismissed as opinion or generalities. That's changed with sickem3's posts. He not only has clear malice for BPM, but is (repeatedly) stating this as fact.

There's a difference between, for example:

"I doubt X company has the means to do A, B , C testing," and "I know for a fact X company does not do A, B, C testing."

It's unfair and irresponsible. If the board won't discourage him from posting that stuff, he might at least be warned that he's breaking the law and opening himself up to a lawsuit. And in my experimence it's not entirely rare for a company to successfully sue the ever-living you-know-what out of a once-anonymous person on the Internet all as a matter of principle.

It would probably be best for us to just stop attacking any tuner's business practices unless we have proof of our claim.

[chris s]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

Read that sentence to yourself again out loud... They are explaining how involved and complicated logging, tuning, and testing is, because it is. And this fact discredits BPM? Well, that's weird, isn't it?

[Verify]

Originally Posted by jamze132

Where was it stated that Mike Benvo doesn't have SC experience? Where was it stated that he didn't have hands-on with the car?

You seem to assume a lot.

Assumption is the mother of all fuckups

Originally Posted by THE TECH

1. What was used to do the logging:
Logging was performed using Bavarian Technic, BMW Logger, as well as factory BMW Tools.

3. It was first tuned on the dyno, fine tweaked on the road, and retested on the dyno.

so, yea.. what was that about assumptions..? you assumed it wasnt remote tuned ..

Originally Posted by chris s

For starters, OP is in florida, benvo is in Cali.

dont use facts and data, BPM pluggers dont go by anything other than feelings.. and since benvo is such a "cool guy" and they "felt" connected, that it didnt matter hundreds of miles separated them in reality.. because it was like he was there in spirit, which is the same thing to them

Originally Posted by Hujan

It would probably be best for us to just stop attacking any tuner's business practices unless we have proof of our claim.

and what if we told you we could back up statements that the skill and experience is lacking.. Your attempt to halt the thread doesnt work when the facts are on my side, so please, take Benvo's case and lets do this

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by RingMeister01

My assumption based on the lack of data provided and missing OP, is that this thread was solely created as an attempt to discredit ESS's tuning capabilities. As in Magic Mike is just so damn good and not even ESS can tune their own developed product over so many years as well as he can.

Threads like this are worthless without data/numbers. This smells like blatant propaganda.

To me, it seems strange that one would discredit ESS, yet buy their kit at the same time? Tune or supercharger. Guess it would have turned into an AA or Evolve or VF vs BPM if the kit was one of theirs. It just had to be an ESS kit as to make a statement i suppose?

All op said was, hey guys, im happy with an ESS supercharger plus BPM tune. How does this discredit ESS?

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

Well, we all know a lot more... I've been around long enough to know the history very well. Know most of the "players" personally. But I think it has no place within this thread. There is so much dirty laundry within that scene that we'd need a whole separate sub-forum to air this out. And boy would that get ugly fast.

This is precisely the sort of restraint I'm talking about.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by e92livin

Lol, Your set-up now is really impressive, you think ESS will ever experiment with different blowers such as the YSI?

Thanks man! No there are no plans to go to the ysi, Gintani owns that, and they appear to be close on the Dct. Fwiw Gintani will also tell you that creating a viable FI file on the s65 is very difficult, its my opinion that they would concur with evolve and ESS on what they posted here. As far as my vt3 kit, Roman oversaw the entire project, he was responsible for much of the R&D and part of the decision making on what components to use etc., While not a tuner himself he certainly knows the process, and certainly can post on behalf of ESS, to suggest otherwise clearly shows a vast amount of ignorance. He's not just a salesman he's heavily involved in everything ESS does and extremely knowledgable when it comes to FI on the s65, his history in the community cleary shows this to be true.

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by SickeM3

so, yea.. what was that about assumptions..? you assumed it wasnt remote tuned ..




dont use facts and data, BPM pluggers dont go by anything other than feelings.. and since benvo is such a "cool guy" and they "felt" connected, that it didnt matter hundreds of miles separated them in reality.. because it was like he was there in spirit, which is the same thing to them



and what if we told you we could back up statements that the skill and experience is lacking.. Your attempt to halt the thread doesnt work when the facts are on my side, so please, take Benvo's case and lets do this

I'm not trying to "halt" the thread, just trying to keep it clean.

But you're playing with fire.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

Total agree. There is no point in this particular discussion to bring in dirty laundry and bad history. This is a technical forum after all, and we are discussing a particular tune. A tune we basically know nothing about, and we are on page 17 currently.

We all know that one person just isnt allowed to join the technical discussion just yet.

Im in for technical debate but some of the accusations are just ridiculous at this point.

Everyone is entitled to their own perspective and opinion though.

[RingMeister01]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

Here is a direct quote from the OP that disappeared:

His tuning skills are defiantly better than most that I've dealt with over the years. For those whom are skeptical about his ability to tune a boosted M, dismiss your skepticism and give Mike a call. Also, If any one was on the fence about SC or NA tuning with him or didn't know where to go... I can say that my experience was very pleasant and fun!! I highly recommend him. BPM +1 Vote for Mike!

There is nothing wrong with this statement, but you can't blame the community to ask further question and data. This is a bold move, and this response, and further inquiries had to be expected.

That's exactly what I'm talking about

[Verify]

Originally Posted by Hujan

I'm not trying to "halt" the thread, just trying to keep it clean.

But you're playing with fire.

And you know this because
1. your his lawyer
2. you have intimate facts because your just a regular person who happened to buy his tune and like it so BPM and Benvo decided to share every aspect of the history with you
or
3. you don't know what your getting into

which is it?

Like I said, it would be very humiliating to continue your course. I've said my piece on the legal aspect you want to go with this, and the tuning aspect that it should be going, and no-one has yet said anything to refute what many members, vendors and myself have stated already. "Burn baby burn"

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by Hujan

I'm not trying to "halt" the thread, just trying to keep it clean.

But you're playing with fire.

You're talking about showing restraint yet you bring up the "libel" card counselor? Should have known you were an attorney, who couldn't show any restraint, instead you try and flex your attorney muscles on a car forum, never seen it in all my years in the car community, pathetic. This particular subject is discussed all the time on every car forum, you are the first 3rd party or attorney who has ever brought "libel" up that I've seen, are you Benvo's attorney? You certainly are acting like it, are you planning on threatening everyone you disagree with to tread lightly or a possible lawsuit could ensue or that has an opinion about your friend and his qualifications to tune the S65, and manifesting it on a car forum? FWIW I thought you were Benvo as well, no one in their right mind would bring up Libel, unless it was the said person himself, now that I've witnessed, but it's usually desperation, and the person is usually in a corner. Get out of here with your libel nonesense, you don't belong in a technical discussion about FI on the S65, who's qualified, and the reality of the process, because you don't know anything about it, SickeM3 does. Go to your civil law forums and do your attorney bullying over there, it doesn't belong here no matter how much you don't like what the other person is saying about your friend and it's a punk move on your part.

[jbraslins]

This thread is still going?

[nullrouted]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

But since you repeatedly bring up lawsuits, and since you are a lawyer may I ask you this: In case BPM took the ESS tune, and simply "renamed" it, what would that be? And I add (you are a good teacher), I obviously don't know that, and I believe that this is probably not true. But since we are all skating at the edge of a legal nightmare, I'd be interested if this might pose a problem for BPM.

Thank you.

No, it actually wouldn't. That's the most hilarious thing about this thread that hasn't been discussed. Regular Guy brought up the fact that it wouldn't be patent, but copyright. If you could copyright a hack, you'd have a lot of iPhone Jailbreak lawsuits out there because most iPhone jailbreaks that are sold are simply stolen copies from the original jailbreakers, how many have you seen? None.

So in theory, if someone could buy a tune, crack the software get the maps/tuning specs out of it (likely trivial with a debugger), facelift it and package the code in their own app, they could immediately begin selling it as their own and the original tuner would have little to no recourse legally.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

I think we are actually just about to start...

Since 730 in the morning for me!

I need a life. Let me make my coffee now and get ready for work.

[Verify]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

I think we are actually just about to start...

I think they have no idea whats coming for them... Chugga chugga chugga.. tooot toooot..

[nullrouted]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

Thank you, that clears things up.

I'm not saying that's what was done here, just that it would be possible.


I'm a computer programmer by trade, so I'm just giving my professional opinion on the situation. That's also why I take such an interest in the topic of tuning, and who does what. Because at the end of the day, a DME is just a computer, a very simple one at that.