ESS 550 Kit.. Tuned by Mike Benvo

[bubu]

Originally Posted by DansM

the M is far from a 5.0 as far as ecu. M software is a lot smarter than that. and as many cars and BMW specific vehicles mike has been around, I'm sure his experience in this platform enables him to make anything work safely

Seriously?!? M software is smarter...? I sincerely hope you are "sure" of mikes ability, you made a $20k bet on it!

I am not going to debate which ecu is more "complex"...I frankly don't know. I also don't think you realize how complex modern ecu's are regardless of car the model & brand. Its irrelevant either way. I recall the 5.0 ecu leaned out one of the cylinders at sustained wot. It took 2 years before someone stumbled on to it while data logging to solve the mystery of why motors were blowing up. I guarantee you the Ford tuning community is bigger and has access to inside information on the same level as THE TECH claims from BMW. Just because someone bribed an insider into leaking industrial secrets (that is what the factory engineering documents are) does not mean that they understand how those 12,000 maps actually interact.

Like I said, I'm very much looking forward to seeing data from Mike's sc tunes and will happily fork over $ once reliable data appears to back things up. If anything it may prompt ESS and VF into expanding their tuning offering to include meth, e85, race gas, etc...Free market competition is a wonderful thing for us

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by signes

Good to see that we have a thread about tunes not turning into a pissing match...

Agreed. It's funny people can accept that test pipes from different companies are basically equally quality (ACM, Turner, etc.) but can't accept tunes from BPM Sport, Evolve, and ESS being more or less equal.

[Trip3's]

Excuse my ignorance, but why would not recording max RPM be a good thing? The only reason I could think is that you don't want BMWNA knowing. But the fact that they can't view it (max RPM)will tell them their is a tune of some sort and create a possible problem in regards to warranty, right?

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by Trip3's

Excuse my ignorance, but why would not recording max RPM be a good thing? The only reason I could think is that you don't want BMWNA knowing. But the fact that they can't view it (max RPM)will tell them their is a tune of some sort and create a possible problem in regards to warranty, right?

I can't speak for Mike or The Tech, but I think the idea is that, once it's tuned, it won't record a max RPM anymore. Thus, if you hit, say, a max of 8200 RPM before your tune, that's what BMWNA would see when they checked.

[DansM]

Originally Posted by bubu

Seriously?!? M software is smarter...? I sincerely hope you are "sure" of mikes ability, you made a $20k bet on it!

I am not going to debate which ecu is more "complex"...I frankly don't know. I also don't think you realize how complex modern ecu's are regardless of car the model & brand. Its irrelevant either way. I recall the 5.0 ecu leaned out one of the cylinders at sustained wot. It took 2 years before someone stumbled on to it while data logging to solve the mystery of why motors were blowing up. I guarantee you the Ford tuning community is bigger and has access to inside information on the same level as THE TECH claims from BMW. Just because someone bribed an insider into leaking industrial secrets (that is what the factory engineering documents are) does not mean that they understand how those 12,000 maps actually interact.

Like I said, I'm very much looking forward to seeing data from Mike's sc tunes and will happily fork over $ once reliable data appears to back things up. If anything it may prompt ESS and VF into expanding their tuning offering to include meth, e85, race gas, etc...Free market competition is a wonderful thing for us

Yes thats exactly what I meant-the MSS60 DME is very adaptable ECU capable of much more that the 5.0 mustangs tractor ecu has ever been. Its a much more sophisticated platform than a mustang and I think that's obvious but I really don't care. im curious why you are so concerned about my decision to tune with mike and why so bitter/skeptical towards his breakthrough's as a innovative tuner. I mean, there have been countless tunes and reviews done and people have not once complained at all! pretty great track record if you ask me....and used engine aren't 20k

[bubu]

Originally Posted by DansM

Yes thats exactly what I meant-the MSS60 DME is very adaptable ECU capable of much more that the 5.0 mustangs tractor ecu has ever been. Its a much more sophisticated platform than a mustang and I think that's obvious but I really don't care. im curious why you are so concerned about my decision to tune with mike and why so bitter/skeptical towards his breakthrough's as a innovative tuner. I mean, there have been countless tunes and reviews done and people have not once complained at all! pretty great track record if you ask me....and used engine aren't 20k

...its clear to me now why you went down this road, carry on

I look forward to any empirical data you chose to share with the community.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by Hujan

I can't speak for Mike or The Tech, but I think the idea is that, once it's tuned, it won't record a max RPM anymore. Thus, if you hit, say, a max of 8200 RPM before your tune, that's what BMWNA would see when they checked.

Mine was 8533rpms before the tune? Wth?!

[0-60Motorsports]

Waiting on Dyno's

[Verify]

1. What was used to do the logging?
2. Benvo hacked into/broke ESS lock on the tuning file?
3. How was it tuned? Road or dyno?
4. how many hours did he spend tuning it?
5. what fuel was it tuned for?
6. what were the before dyno's?
7. where are the after dyno's?


A whole lot of talking with no evidence except for someone claiming- yet again- that this is awesome because i feel the placebo effect but have no actual proof.

and

8. why did you want a retune in the first place?

[THE TECH]

Originally Posted by SickeM3

1. What was used to do the logging?
2. Benvo hacked into/broke ESS lock on the tuning file?
3. How was it tuned? Road or dyno?
4. what fuel was it tuned for?
5. what were the before dyno's?
6. where are the after dyno's?


A whole lot of talking with no evidence except for someone claiming- yet again- that this is awesome because i feel the placebo effect but have no actual proof.

and

7. why did you want a retune in the first place?

We don't hack files. Keep your assumptions to yourself please.

We make tuned files...that is the proof.

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by DansM

the M is far from a 5.0 as far as ecu. M software is a lot smarter than that. and as many cars and BMW specific vehicles mike has been around, I'm sure his experience in this platform enables him to make anything work safely

Actually the DME in the 5.0L Mustang is quite sophisticated and darn near equal to the S65 engine. Now if you mean the old 5.0L OHV engine, well yes. Not the newer ones.

The lean condition that happened on the Mustang was a John Lund tune...because of this Ford is really cracking down on tuning these cars. However, Ford Racing Parts offers software with the factory warranty still intact. Something I would love to see BMW do.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts...KeyField=12346

That being said, for those of you who are doubting Mikes prowess in tuning these cars are selling him short. This guy definitely knows what he is doing. This guy lives, breathes and sleeps code.

Dave

[astris]

Originally Posted by THE TECH

We don't hack files. Keep your assumptions to yourself please.

We make tuned files...that is the proof.

Aside from 2 and 7, those are valid questions. Are you saying you can't or won't provide that information? Seems like standard info any interested customer would want to know.

[DLSJ5]

Not a fan of a third party tuning someone else's kit, especially if the kit has shown to be just about flawless and by far has sold the most kits with proven reliability and performance. You are not dealing with a questionable company who developed a kit and left the owners out to dry or had a poor tune, it's quite the opposite with ESS, to be frank it's unprofessional for a 3rd party tuner to do this.

Normally when a third party does something like this it's because they feel for whatever reason they have to make some sort of statement, they have to try and make a name for themselves at the expense of others, or they don't have the ability/skill/experience to build their own proven FI kits so they take a short cut, again at someone else's expense. This third party tuner gives no thought or care to all the hard work, time, money and effort that was put into developing the kit by someone else, it's unethical and it crosses the line.

I've seen it before in the BMW community as well as in different platforms, and at times I can understand why someone would seek help if the kit is having tuning related problems, and the maker of the kit can't fix it, but like I said that is not the case with ESS. From what I've seen most of the time the customer is initially euphoric with this third party tune, but eventually pays the price. I'm not saying that will happen here, but more than not that is the case. It's your car and you can do whatever you want with it but I would not expect nor would you deserve any support from ESS.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

Actually the DME in the 5.0L Mustang is quite sophisticated and darn near equal to the S65 engine. Now if you mean the old 5.0L OHV engine, well yes. Not the newer ones.

The lean condition that happened on the Mustang was a John Lund tune...because of this Ford is really cracking down on tuning these cars. However, Ford Racing Parts offers software with the factory warranty still intact. Something I would love to see BMW do.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts...KeyField=12346

That being said, for those of you who are doubting Mikes prowess in tuning these cars are selling him short. This guy definitely knows what he is doing. This guy lives, breathes and sleeps code.

Dave

So knowing code means you know how to safely/correctly TUNE a FI kit that was not developed by you?

[chris s]

Originally Posted by Hujan

Agreed. It's funny people can accept that test pipes from different companies are basically equally quality (ACM, Turner, etc.) but can't accept tunes from BPM Sport, Evolve, and ESS being more or less equal.

Wait, did you just compare "test pipes" to a tune (NA or Supercharged)? That could be the post of the year!!! LOLLLL

[chris s]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

Not a fan of a third party tuning someone else's kit, especially if the kit has shown to be just about flawless and by far has sold the most kits with proven reliability and performance. You are not dealing with a questionable company who developed a kit and left the owners out to dry or had a poor tune, it's quite the opposite with ESS, to be frank it's unprofessional for a 3rd party tuner to do this.

Normally when a third party does something like this it's because they feel for whatever reason they have to make some sort of statement, they have to try and make a name for themselves at the expense of others, or they don't have the ability/skill/experience to build their own proven FI kits so they take a short cut, again at someone else's expense. This third party tuner gives no thought or care to all the hard work, time, money and effort that was put into developing the kit by someone else, it's unethical and it crosses the line.

I've seen it before in the BMW community as well as in different platforms, and at times I can understand why someone would seek help if the kit is having tuning related problems, and the maker of the kit can't fix it, but like I said that is not the case with ESS. From what I've seen most of the time the customer is initially euphoric with this third party tune, but eventually pays the price. I'm not saying that will happen here, but more than not that is the case. It's your car and you can do whatever you want with it but I would not expect nor would you deserve any support from ESS.

+1 Not a gamble i would take. Why mess with a kit/tune that has stood the test of time and MORE than earned it's rep as the best?! To save yourself a few hundred bucks? Penny wise and dollar foolish if you ask me!

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by chris s

+1 Not a gamble i would take. Why mess with a kit/tune that has stood the test of time and MORE than earned it's rep as the best?! To save yourself a few hundred bucks? Penny wise and dollar foolish if you ask me!

Agreed, and with the ESS tune this non intercooled 550 kit went low 11's, with a great trap, in fact it holds the record for non intercooled setups. I've never heard of one issue or drivability problem with that kit, except from a known detractor, that's one person out of hundreds, easy call there. This whole thing was premeditated and planned for effect, nothing more and I know some will disagree, that's one of the things these forums are for, but it's pathetic and just a little distasteful IMHO.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

Not a fan of a third party tuning someone else's kit, especially if the kit has shown to be just about flawless and by far has sold the most kits with proven reliability and performance. You are not dealing with a questionable company who developed a kit and left the owners out to dry or had a poor tune, it's quite the opposite with ESS, to be frank it's unprofessional for a 3rd party tuner to do this.

Normally when a third party does something like this it's because they feel for whatever reason they have to make some sort of statement, they have to try and make a name for themselves at the expense of others, or they don't have the ability/skill/experience to build their own proven FI kits so they take a short cut, again at someone else's expense. This third party tuner gives no thought or care to all the hard work, time, money and effort that was put into developing the kit by someone else, it's unethical and it crosses the line.

.

thats a little extreme to say the least.

these companies are in competition. there is nothing wrong with providing a tune to a buyer of a used kit who requests this service.

why exactly does BPM (or anyone for that matter) owe ESS (or anyone from any kit) anything at all? ESS already made their money from selling the kit outright. So now they have a monopoly over anyone who wants to purchase the kit second hand? That's ridiculous and is completely out of line with what a free market is and is supposed to be.

The tuner can offer whatever services they like, and the consumer is free to seek out whatever tune they like.

You cannot and should not control what people do with their money or cars. IMO your post is way off base and makes little sense.

[chris s]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

thats a little extreme to say the least.

these companies are in competition. there is nothing wrong with providing a tune to a buyer of a used kit who requests this service.

why exactly does BPM (or anyone for that matter) owe ESS (or anyone from any kit) anything at all? ESS already made their money from selling the kit outright. So now they have a monopoly over anyone who wants to purchase the kit second hand? That's ridiculous and is completely out of line with what a free market is and is supposed to be.

The tuner can offer whatever services they like, and the consumer is free to seek out whatever tune they like.

You cannot and should not control what people do with their money. IMO your post is way off base and makes little sense.

Wow, holy misinterpretation of a post!

Who is trying to control what people do with their money!? He offered his opinion...and a very valid one, at that.

[chris s]

And no....nothing wrong with benvo offering a tune for a kit he didn't design, develop, build or test! IMHO just kinda dumb on the consumers part, but JUSTTTT my opinion.

[happos2]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

Not a fan of a third party tuning someone else's kit, especially if the kit has shown to be just about flawless and by far has sold the most kits with proven reliability and performance. You are not dealing with a questionable company who developed a kit and left the owners out to dry or had a poor tune, it's quite the opposite with ESS, to be frank it's unprofessional for a 3rd party tuner to do this.

Normally when a third party does something like this it's because they feel for whatever reason they have to make some sort of statement, they have to try and make a name for themselves at the expense of others, or they don't have the ability/skill/experience to build their own proven FI kits so they take a short cut, again at someone else's expense. This third party tuner gives no thought or care to all the hard work, time, money and effort that was put into developing the kit by someone else, it's unethical and it crosses the line.

I've seen it before in the BMW community as well as in different platforms, and at times I can understand why someone would seek help if the kit is having tuning related problems, and the maker of the kit can't fix it, but like I said that is not the case with ESS. From what I've seen most of the time the customer is initially euphoric with this third party tune, but eventually pays the price. I'm not saying that will happen here, but more than not that is the case. It's your car and you can do whatever you want with it but I would not expect nor would you deserve any support from ESS.

Valid remark...but what happens when you buy a used kit and the tune doesn't come with it? Why do I have to be locked into manufacturer tune? Just because they developed it? That means nobody can do it better relatively speaking? (not saying this is the case, just a general statement)
If the business model states that second hand / thrid hand sells will require a new tune (which has to be manufactures) that would be a very poor business model in todays world....especially with the amount of knock-offs in other countries (you can't rely on the income). Note I am in no way saying this is what the manufacturer does, just pointing out why I don't see it as being unethical. And I am no implying anything about ESS as I think they have proven they are quite good with their tuning ability of superchargers.

As for the reliability, I haven't been around long enough or tuned as heavy as you so I definitely can see your points there based on your experience.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

thats a little extreme to say the least.

these companies are in competition. there is nothing wrong with providing a tune to a buyer of a used kit who requests this service.

why exactly does BPM (or anyone for that matter) owe ESS (or anyone from any kit) anything at all? ESS already made their money from selling the kit outright. So now they have a monopoly over anyone who wants to purchase the kit second hand? That's ridiculous and is completely out of line with what a free market is and is supposed to be.

The tuner can offer whatever services they like, and the consumer is free to seek out whatever tune they like.

You cannot and should not control what people do with their money or cars. IMO your post is way off base and makes little sense.

What are you talking about? Anyone can do whatever they want with their car, lol. You simply don't get it, my post was about an individuals behavior, conduct and ethics, cleary those are not important factors to you, but they are to me.