Scary rod bearing thread s85

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by W///

I'll be looking at switching to M1 as well after my next Blackstone report. I'd really like to hear about the oil pressure, then I'll be really convinced.

I am going to try and get a gauge in the car for this weekend so I can watch it on our drive. There is a blackstone report of a user here on the board that is already using it and has had good results. The UOA shown no Pb wear either. I will contact him and see if he will post it.
I will throw this out there though. You will be able to tell a immediate difference in how fast the engine revs with the 0w40.

[Longwong]

I think we have to separate this discussion from my research into people who daily driver the car/do not drive the car hard, keeps engine temps on the left of the mid dash mark and rarely gets over 7k. Compared to those who live in hot climates or who drive the car hard and live at temps over the middle mark. Or track people.

If the first group than use the lighter oils. If the second groups than I believe using the tws is a must. From what I read it drops to a 50 w weight quite quickly so its not even a 60 weight and I would not want to run anything less than a 50 weight if driving the car hard and redlining and pushing it frequently in the heat.

I agree if you don't drive the car hard than a 40 weight seems appropriate.

[Longwong]

I also wonder that aside from supercharger people given that changes the whole situation in terms of stress on the engine but for those who are NA, perhaps given after I have learned a bit about tws and in general using a 60 weight (sheering to 50 weight) oil, perhaps those of us who drive the car hard from day 1 (after proper warm up) have the best chance at having no issues given we are keeping the oil as thin as possible while still getting the 60 weight oil protection in other parts of the engine but even within the bearing areas. Those that run tws and who do not consistently push the car I can see the lack of lubrication issue if the oil is not warm enough.

So those that track and drive it hard all the time in my view given the data I have accumulated may be the ones with the least bearing wear out there and the least problems vs. those that daily drive everyday.

Very interesting. I just wonder how much M really designs things around the german roads and the track and engineered it as people would be running a hot engine and hot oil forgetting so many barely push the car and thus that weight oil may be just too thick for the bearings if not really hot.

So paradoxically those of us who really push their car may be the safer ones. I know my car has never burned oil either and I pushed it hard from 500 miles

[mtbkr31]

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

One of our main sponsors is Quaker State which is owned by Shell, they are sending me some 5-40 euro to try out. I will get back to you on that one.
From what I have gathered from some other tests is that the mobil is better hot and thicker with higher viscosity index but is still thinner cold. Really better all around. Only question is do we have enough oil pressure to run the 0-40. But, I know a couple guys already running it so I am going to put a gauge in the car. I have asked on a couple occasions for a pressure graph to be posted but no one wants to do it. So I am working on it.

I have a oil pressure gauge on my setup along with boost and water temp.

I'm running Mobil 1 0w50 racing oil. On a cold start the oil pressure hits 80 or so...after a few minutes of driving it gradually levels off to 60 then 40 or so from what I remember.

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by mtbkr31

I have a oil pressure gauge on my setup along with boost and water temp.

I'm running Mobil 1 0w50 racing oil. On a cold start the oil pressure hits 80 or so...after a few minutes of driving it gradually levels off to 60 then 40 or so from what I remember.

Could you check what the pressure is hot at idle?

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by Longwong

I think we have to separate this discussion from my research into people who daily driver the car/do not drive the car hard, keeps engine temps on the left of the mid dash mark and rarely gets over 7k. Compared to those who live in hot climates or who drive the car hard and live at temps over the middle mark. Or track people.

If the first group than use the lighter oils. If the second groups than I believe using the tws is a must. From what I read it drops to a 50 w weight quite quickly so its not even a 60 weight and I would not want to run anything less than a 50 weight if driving the car hard and redlining and pushing it frequently in the heat.

I agree if you don't drive the car hard than a 40 weight seems appropriate.

If people want to beat the car up at 300 on the oil and still not change the oil for 5k miles then tws is probably better but for us guys that blast down back roads and all there is no need for the tws. Everyone can run what they want, if the rod clearance was set properly I would run the tws and never look back. But the rod clearance is not set to ideal specs so I along with many other guys do not run it.

[mtbkr31]

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

Could you check what the pressure is hot at idle?

Sure I'll post it up on Friday when I take the car to work.

[VCMpower]

This sounds on the mark. You would be staring at your oil gauge in fear if clearances were opened up beyond .0015. It would drop below 20 at idle.

Originally Posted by mtbkr31

I have a oil pressure gauge on my setup along with boost and water temp.

I'm running Mobil 1 0w50 racing oil. On a cold start the oil pressure hits 80 or so...after a few minutes of driving it gradually levels off to 60 then 40 or so from what I remember.

[Leonardo629]

Kawasaki, if you are talking about my M1 0w40 UOA, feel free to post the link on here. Take it with a grain of salt, that UOA includes a dyno run at EAS under 101F so cal heat. Car made 357whp with just Akra slip-on and MS stg2 intake. And the UOA showed no Pb trace at all!

M1 0W40 is also the factory fill for Nissan GT-R's, so we know the oil can handle turbo heat.

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by Leonardo629

Kawasaki, if you are talking about my M1 0w40 UOA, feel free to post the link on here. Take it with a grain of salt, that UOA includes a dyno run at EAS under 101F so cal heat. Car made 357whp with just Akra slip-on and MS stg2 intake. And the UOA showed no Pb trace at all!

M1 0W40 is also the factory fill for Nissan GT-R's, so we know the oil can handle turbo heat.

Yea I was talking about yours but didnt want to step on toes. Thanks

[e92zero]

^Lot of info/data/knowledge passed around. Want to say thank you to all.

[flipmeraz]

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

Yea I was talking about yours but didnt want to step on toes. Thanks

Have you looked at the Joe Gibbs DT40 high performance oil?

[Longwong]

Originally Posted by Leonardo629

Kawasaki, if you are talking about my M1 0w40 UOA, feel free to post the link on here. Take it with a grain of salt, that UOA includes a dyno run at EAS under 101F so cal heat. Car made 357whp with just Akra slip-on and MS stg2 intake. And the UOA showed no Pb trace at all!

M1 0W40 is also the factory fill for Nissan GT-R's, so we know the oil can handle turbo heat.

But tons of gtr guys switch to tws!!! I think we all want something different and perceive something else is always better.

I have researched and tws is a stellar oil that is used in very high end applications and I am confident in this oil

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by flipmeraz

Have you looked at the Joe Gibbs DT40 high performance oil?

I have not. I know a couple guys that work over there so I will see if I can get a bottle.

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by Longwong

But tons of gtr guys switch to tws!!! I think we all want something different and perceive something else is always better.

I have researched and tws is a stellar oil that is used in very high end applications and I am confident in this oil

The point you make about it being a stellar oil is correct. It really is a top tier oil that is available to the masses.
Gtr guys don't have a rod clearance issue though. Unfortunately we do, if we didn't I would not run anything different.
The way rod bearings look after 50k miles are the way they should look after 150k miles. Is the issue blown out a little, maybe because many people don't have issues but the fact remains there is a problem and the only way to bandaid it without tang the motor apart is to run thinner oil.

[Leonardo629]

Just did a little research, rod bearings have been the same since inception of V10 M5/M6, and all M3s.

Is the rod bearing clearance really that tight? Is this because the motor is derived from racing?

[FogCityM3]

Thx, I'll probably keep it TWS for my free oil services and the ones in between as well. This same racing team that uses Redline also swears by the Redline engine oil additive (zinc & phosphorus additive) for the times when you use the free (TWS) oil changes by the dealer. Are there risks to mixing formulations like that? thx in advance

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

Great info, I am running Redline 10w60 and was thinking of switching to Liqui Moly! What is your take on the Redline?

The redline is a really good oil but if going off the premise that the oil is too thick for us non track users then I would not run it.
The redline is thicker cold and hot than the tws oil.[/QUOTE]

[VCMpower]

Originally Posted by Longwong

But tons of gtr guys switch to tws!!! I think we all want something different and perceive something else is always better.

I have researched and tws is a stellar oil that is used in very high end applications and I am confident in this oil

Yes.

[e92zero]

Given all the expert here, do we know what's the minimum oil pressure need to be maintained for the VANOs to work properly. I thought I read that somewhere but I can't find it. It looks like running thinner oil will drop the oil pressure. Will this have a negative impact on the VANOs in the long run?

[Leonardo629]

S65 actually runs vanos off the engine oil pressure, unlike S85, which is fitted with a high pressure vanos system.

My car ran fine on the dyno with M1 0W40, you would think if there was any oil issue the motor would've gone kaboom when the operator repeatedly bounce off the rev limiter.

Originally Posted by e92zero

Given all the expert here, do we know what's the minimum oil pressure need to be maintained for the VANOs to work properly. I thought I read that somewhere but I can't find it. It looks like running thinner oil will drop the oil pressure. Will this have a negative impact on the VANOs in the long run?

[W///]

Originally Posted by Leonardo629

S65 actually runs vanos off the engine oil pressure, unlike S85, which is fitted with a high pressure vanos system.

My car ran fine on the dyno with M1 0W40, you would think if there was any oil issue the motor would've gone kaboom when the operator repeatedly bounce off the rev limiter.

What's the correlation between oil starvation and lower oil pressure (by going with a lighter weight oil)?

[BMRLVR]

Going from a Xw60 to an Xw40 oil is not going to significantly affect oil pressure guys! The S65 oiling system is not maxed out by any means!

Also opening up clearances to around 0.002 - 0.0025 is not going to drop oil pressure to a level that is too low for safe operation of the engine. I have confirmed that Dinan uses an OEM oil pump non-modified, I have also confirmed that they open up the clearances on the mains and rods to 0.0019 and 0.0025 respectively. Do you honestly think Dinan did this without doing any R&D? No company charging 25k for their engine with 2 years of warranty or a company like BMW would design an engine would run an oil pump that is maxed out for flow. I wish I could flow test an S65 pump to confirm its flow rate for all of you that worry about oil pressure!