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02-03-2013, 11:02 PM | #67 | |
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I am a car dealer. I have owned many cars and driven the new C63; along with the Black Series. I also track my cars; grew up in shifter carts. I love MBZ, I just prefer BMW
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02-04-2013, 12:04 AM | #68 |
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Well said in the end who came out on top MB or BMW?
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02-04-2013, 12:19 AM | #69 |
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Lets just say at the track you see a lot more BMWs than MBZs.
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02-04-2013, 08:49 AM | #70 |
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Sounds like enough grip. It's interesting because I run 295s on my M3 with no problem. I feel a car like the C63 should be setup for some nice wide tires. Although I will admit 295 on an M3 is overkill. 275 is probably perfect.
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02-04-2013, 10:24 AM | #71 | |
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My car makes over 400 ft/lbs to the wheels and the re-11's were up to the task almost the entire time on the track and on the street. they are amazing tires, and probably can tame the c63 to a degree. superior to PSS in track style driving. i look forward to what BMW and Mercedes both come up with on the next generation of the m3 / c63
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02-04-2013, 01:55 PM | #72 |
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BMW needs a normally aspirated track version of the next gen M3. While having the FI version for the street. Think... 911 GT3/Turbo, Boss 302/GT500, etc...
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02-04-2013, 02:15 PM | #73 | |
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second of all, a track spec m3 (if built) imo would benefit a ton more from things like -weight reduction -improved braking performance -improved handling / stiffness in chassis than it would from an n/a vs turbo motor. the gtr owns the track and is turbocharged. it owns the track because it outhandles the pants off most other cars on the track.
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02-04-2013, 05:33 PM | #74 | |
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I couldn't care less about 0-60. But BMW is becoming a follower, not a leader. They're the German Toyota.
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02-04-2013, 08:57 PM | #75 | |
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They came up with a radical technology on which they will produce the first mass market CF automobile, most likely the first viable electric car too. They have the best turbocharged engines in the industry. They seem to be going backwards in terms of feel and handling, but technologically they are very much relevant and at the front of the pack.
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02-05-2013, 12:32 AM | #76 | |
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Many who track their car would very much benefit from a NA version. Especially those that track their car long sessions on hot track days. I have dealt with FI, it can be a headache at times. I rather spend my track days doing laps, than taking cool down time in the paddock. |
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02-05-2013, 05:39 AM | #77 |
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bmw hasn't done anything because an M3 will still kill the c63 507 around a twisty track, and they are working on the next gen M car.
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02-05-2013, 08:27 AM | #78 | |
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What about the engine in the GTR or the 911 Turbo. And there's supercars that are turbocharged too like the McLaren MP4-12C, Bugatti Veyron, and Pagani Huayra. |
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02-05-2013, 10:16 AM | #79 |
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Dont mind him, he does this nonsense talk in all threads.
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02-05-2013, 01:34 PM | #80 | |
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Having said that, times only mean so much as the M3 is still the better overall track car IMO but you are nuts to think the 507 won't be faster on most tracks. The only tracks where the M3 will be as fast IMO are very short, very tight tracks and, even then, maybe not.
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02-05-2013, 11:50 PM | #81 | |
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If you have some actual contributions other than one line wisdom pearls, please feel free to post them.
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The engine in a 911 turbo probably costs more than the whole 335, and the only technical superiority that i am aware of is the variable geometry turbo. Then again BMW has Valvetronic which is very nifty technology. I mean granted, those other engines are heavily reinforced to support massive amounts of boost, but I don't think that counts as a technological advancement - that has been around since the 80s. You may agree with my ideas or not, but how do your consider BMW to not be technologically advanced? As compared to whom? You can criticize them for a lack of vision for not playing in certain segments, like the R8. I do. You can criticize them for reneging on some of their core brand values such as driving dynamics. I do. You can criticize their styling or whatnot. It's been done. But I don't think you can criticize them on the technology front, they are simply some of the best. To get things back on track with this thread, I don't at all admire AMG's approach to create a capable engine, then simply selling it in various states of tune and charging increasing amounts of money for the different tunes. I think they should have come out of the gate with the best engine they knew how to build in the C63. None of this piecemeal stuff, and if you have a 2 year old C63 then it's completely obsolete. Of course, that's just my opinion and since I'll probably never own an AMG its most likely irrelevant to the brand.
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02-06-2013, 03:35 AM | #82 | |
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in the hands of a professional, i would imagine they are close in performance, but to the every day driver and occasional track visitor, the m3 will still be superior. the c63 507 is almost getting into the "apples to oranges" category... as its price is significantly higher as well as the power. mercedes is so focused on beating an m3 that came out in 2007 they are packing a crazy powerful motor into their c63 platform and skipping over what makes an Mcar perform like it does- lower weight, better handling, and adequate power used efficiently.
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02-06-2013, 05:25 AM | #83 | |
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02-06-2013, 06:32 AM | #84 | |
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And Audi had a turbo 5 cylinder that could be taken to 600 BHP in the 80s, and to 900BHP in the early 90s. Google Dahlback Audi and enjoy. But they're just not better engines, simply because they can make more power.
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02-06-2013, 01:26 PM | #85 | |
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I don't think there's anything wrong with the engine. It's proven itself in multiple bmw cars, but when you throw the word "best" around that's where I feel that you are wrong because there are a lot of cars out there with better turbocharged engines imho. |
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02-06-2013, 07:30 PM | #86 | |
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02-09-2013, 04:13 PM | #87 |
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Why haven't Mercedes (or Audi for that matter), gone with a Carbon Fiber roof like BMW has? Patent?
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02-09-2013, 05:16 PM | #88 |
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