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01-21-2013, 07:18 PM | #45 |
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might not be worth doing though also as i may just buy something else and keep this baby how it is.
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01-21-2013, 08:04 PM | #46 | |
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No doubt the S62 is bad ass as I've seen this Turner Motor Sport S62 engined M6 win its class at Homestead in 2010. That being said the the S65 raised the bar engine tech wise- or BMW ///M would have just stuck with the S62 no Especially seeing as though the E60/E63 saw the introduction of the S85 V10. What I'm saying here, is why go back to the drawing board- and create an all new engine if the 4.9 L S62 is lighter than the 4.0L S65 with comparable horsepower and more torque?
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01-21-2013, 08:09 PM | #47 |
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Perhaps the answer to my own question is: Because they could build and introduce the S65 - and frankly I'm glad they did. Still, much respect to the S62 - no doubt that it is a solid engine
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01-21-2013, 08:50 PM | #48 |
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As emissions and efficiency standards continue to increase, does the need for new technology. That is the reason engines don't carry over from model to model. An engine introduced in model year 2000 can not meet todays CARB or CAFE standards, let alone both. Not to mention as they age, the issues start to surface. Take the secondary air passage issues with the S62 as an example.
The easiest way to keep up with the horsepower war that the public demands while keeping the engines from growing in size, is forced induction. Engines can only make so much power while maintaining their longevity. |
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01-21-2013, 09:11 PM | #49 | |
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01-21-2013, 11:11 PM | #50 |
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Torque, while important for trucks which tow doesnt really apply to our/ my cars. Driving skill and the drivers ability for adapting to driving conditions (vehicle, roads, topography, weather, vehicle and tire condition and wear, driver experience and knowledge,) far outweigh the need for torque. Torque will work in a straight line at brand new. Skill is what is required to move an M3 around a track at speed. And Mods!
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01-21-2013, 11:30 PM | #51 | |
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It doesnt take into account, aside from a gas guzzler tax, the fact that the amount of fuel it goes through probalby negates the cleaner burning cause you burn 3 times more! |
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01-21-2013, 11:39 PM | #52 | |
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01-21-2013, 11:45 PM | #53 |
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Not really. First from the overall thrust. Gear 1 goes to manual but after that DCT has more thrust in every gear and significantly more in 3rd gear which is a very common track gear as well.
Second part of the arguement of why DCt goes with the m3 is due to having to keep the revs up which means lots of shifting. Lots of shifting constantly with a few clicks is much quicker than each manual shift and if you have to shift a lot, the seconds with each shift (miliseconds) adds up in time and simply effort. |
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01-22-2013, 12:18 AM | #54 | |
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01-22-2013, 12:23 AM | #55 | |
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01-22-2013, 12:32 AM | #56 |
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And about the turner M3 using the S62....just going off what I've read on the boards over the years, since the S62 was used in the M6, it made sense to continue with the S62 in the M3 in terms of cost and development.
In rolex, the daytona prototype and GT class BMW both use a S62. The S62 is the only approved engine for dp, not sure about the GT class. http://www.grand-am.com/Portals/0/Im...%201.16.13.pdf |
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01-22-2013, 09:25 AM | #57 | |
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See this thread for a little more info: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157633 And this one on another site for an M3 vs C5 Corvette Z06 real-world torque comparsion: http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showthread.php?t=23608 The M3's torque at the wheels is quite comparable and sometimes even higher than the Vette's despite a 100+ lb-ft engine torque difference.
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01-22-2013, 09:53 AM | #58 |
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Compared to the S62, the S65 complies to stricter emission standards, has a quicker ECU, unique firing order, the alternator disconnects during acceleration to maximize power, higher compression ratio, high displacement to power ratio, is lighter and more compact.
Both amazing engines and appropriate for their applications |
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01-22-2013, 12:00 PM | #59 | |
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01-22-2013, 01:35 PM | #60 | |
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01-22-2013, 02:12 PM | #61 | |||||||
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This post is incorrect in many (but not all) of its points.
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It's just that, when you're way over on the right-hand side of the tach with things getting all blurry and you're laughing like a loon, the low end feels as if it was way weak. Quote:
Given the traffic in this note, it seems to matter a lot. Not for the first time, let me post a pointer HERE for more info on horsepower vs torque. Bruce Last edited by bruce.augenstein@comcast.; 01-23-2013 at 12:13 AM.. Reason: Spelling |
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01-22-2013, 02:22 PM | #62 |
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^Thanks, that was a very clarifying post instead of just "lol Munit's a crazy idiot!"
That link you provided's also looks great at a glance for learning about this stuff.
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01-22-2013, 07:11 PM | #63 |
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Great post, Bruce! Munit, there is really no need to go on and on abt wheel torque. You have already acknowledged that at the low end of the tacho, the S65 is not suited for lazy driving. Please bear in mind that not all commute can reasonably be done at 6k rpm or more. Imagine driving that way in every instance on the streets? I seriously doubt even u are driving in that manner as that would be hazardous and socially unacceptable. We are talking about types of driving here and in the real life on the streets, we have to deal with varying driving situations.
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01-22-2013, 07:58 PM | #65 | |||
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w00t!!!
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01-22-2013, 08:19 PM | #66 | |
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Unlike the 6spd in the M5, the car would not be at a significant disadvantage if shifts speed were held constant. Obviously shifting manually takes longer, but nobody cares.
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