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10-11-2012, 09:08 PM | #45 |
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Nice. My buddy also had the plates installed and also noticed a slight height increase in the front.
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10-11-2012, 09:23 PM | #46 | |
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See photo... |
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10-12-2012, 07:46 AM | #47 |
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So the vorshlag spring perch has a significant amount of rubber underneath the aluminum plate? The pics on the first page led me to believe that the rubber cover is just a thin piece of rubber which won't really compress much.
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10-12-2012, 10:23 AM | #48 |
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The vorshlag plates do not come with the rubber isolator for spring perch. The rubber isolator from OEM perch was re-used.
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10-12-2012, 11:34 AM | #49 |
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OK, got it.
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10-12-2012, 04:17 PM | #50 | |
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Here is the installation instructions from Vorshlag: http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/Vorshlag...9801&k=T8sC2qT |
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10-13-2012, 09:22 AM | #51 |
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Update! It's been 2 days since having new Vorshlag camber plates installed and I'm very pleased with the ride quality. The new plates are actually quieter than OEM spring perches. When riding over uneven expansion joints or centerline markers, the struts no longer makes tapping noise that OEM perches used to. I will be having alignment done today and I'm looking forward to my next track day.
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10-15-2012, 05:37 PM | #52 |
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I'm looking into this option as this will likely be my next mod, and shortly thereafter I'll likely get a square setup of 18" wheels to get more front grip -- slippery slope!
However (and apologies if this is answered elsewhere, I looked but didn't find anything), while I understand that maximum negative camber can be affected by several factors, I'm curious what the RANGE of camber adjustment is. For example, if I installed these plates, set them to their minimum setting, and got an alignment for -2 degrees, what would my camber be after switching them to max camber? And how much does toe change from minimum to maximum? And lastly, would you happen to know how much camber I'd get on my otherwise stock suspension setup (EDC, 19" 220Ms) and, if different, with a set of 18" wheels for 255 width tires all around?
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10-15-2012, 09:02 PM | #53 | |
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Since I went with a static setup for both track/street, I did not bother to check the change in toe at max camber. From what I've read on other post, a 1.5 degree camber change will result in about a 0.5 degree toe change. I was able to get a max camber of -1.6 degree with pins pulled and lowered suspension of .75 inch. On a stock setup you will get less, maybe around -1.3 degrees with pins pulled. I attached my street/track alignment specs. Since most of my HPDE's are solo, alignment was done with me sitting in car. The spec sheet however, was printed with me out of car and shows left/right change in camber. The camber with me sitting in car is roughly F -2.2/-2.2 and R -2.0/-2.0. Toe was set to almost zero to minimize tire wear from excessive camber.
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10-15-2012, 09:46 PM | #54 |
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^ Thanks!!
I'm surprised that the most negative camber you can get on a bone stock setup is -1.3 and even that requires pulling pins -- so much for getting -2 as a baseline! But (and I now realize I didn't word this well in my original question) what I meant to ask was what's the maximum negative camber I could expect with my 220M wheels, EDC, these plates on their maximum setting, and no other changes to the suspension, not even pulling pins if I can avoid it? My last alignment sheet shows me at -1, and from what I'm reading it doesn't look like you can get much more than that completely stock, but if just adding these camber plates can get me to -2.5 for the track, I think I'd be happy with that. Sorry if these questions are rudimentary, but this would be my first foray into suspension mods and while I'm familiar with some of the concepts and purposes, I'm less informed as to what particular details about the rest of the car's setup affect possible outcomes/potential.
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10-15-2012, 10:22 PM | #55 |
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Someone just ran his E90 M3 with these plates at TWS this past weekend. I chalked his tires and the rears got more wear on the outside than the fronts.
The front axle was -2.5 and not sure what the rear was.
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10-15-2012, 10:49 PM | #56 |
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mine go in the 30th. think i may try and get out on the 4th for a little testing.
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10-16-2012, 12:07 AM | #57 | |
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A good starting camber with the Vorshlag plate is -1.0 deg which gives you -2.5 deg track camber. If going for a static setup, -2.0 to -2.2 deg might be a good compromise. You will also need to max the rear camber to limit the oversteer tendency of having more front grip.
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10-16-2012, 12:13 AM | #58 |
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James, how did he like the Vorshlag plates? Was he running square setup, streets or R-comps?
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10-16-2012, 12:21 AM | #59 | |
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With the rear toe-in near zero you may experience corner exit oversteer so test and add more toe-in if needed. |
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10-16-2012, 06:58 AM | #60 | |
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He noticed a significant difference, the car gripped much better in the corners and makes the tail wag a bit more. Just gotta stay in the throttle to keep the rear in the rear.
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10-16-2012, 08:25 AM | #61 |
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I was actually at TWS this past weekend. I've been looking for a Monte Carlo Blue M3 and never found one, but I definitely remember a supercharged 330 so I'll have to say hi next time, and I think I know the M3 you're talking about that ran those plates; didn't realize they were the Vorshlag.
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10-16-2012, 09:46 AM | #62 |
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I'm still hearing some conflicting theories here. I don't drive my cart much on the street but still don't want excessive wear at either the track on outer edges or street on inner. Also want to maximize overall grip without inducing a oversteer monster. My plan was to run a static set up of 2.5 neg front and 2.0 rear with a neutral or zero toe. Am I gonna get what I want or what should I tweek?
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10-16-2012, 11:10 AM | #63 |
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It was the black sedan that had the vorshlag plates. I saw a blue M3 in the red group but never saw where you parked...was that you?
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10-16-2012, 11:14 AM | #64 | |
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Swap front to rear Flip all 4 tires/same corner Swap front to rear ...then I haven't gotten past that. If you run assymetrical tires (like PSS)...I'd just rotate the best tire to the corner which will see the most wear and then the worst tire to the corner that will see the least amount of wear. But I'm not an expert on that. This is what my E46 tires looked like after 50 sessions + 2 wet days + 6k street miles. I didn't even flip them...probably could have gotten a couple more sessions.
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10-16-2012, 01:03 PM | #65 |
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Thanks Harold, good point, I may have to add back a little toe at the rear if she wants to swap ends on exit. With a previous set of PS2's, I was running same rear camber (-2.0) with spec toe-in and the inside of tires were wearing excessively. I guess I will have to find a happy medium for my street tires and the track.
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10-16-2012, 01:08 PM | #66 | |
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