Cold start grind. Vanos, timing chain? (vid)

Stronie · 07-15-2012, 02:36 PM

midlifecrisis · 07-15-2012, 04:15 PM

I get the sharp bang or clatter after mine has been sitting for more than a day, too. Almost sounds like the timing chain banging against something. It's a very short, sharp sound (like one hit on something) and then it stops. It's the same noise as heard in both of the videos on this thread. I just passed 50k miles, but I bought the extended powertrain warranty. If something bad happens, I guess I'll be covered. I'd still like to know what it is, though. Vanos or something else?

FormulaMMM · 07-15-2012, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midlifecrisis

I get the sharp bang or clatter after mine has been sitting for more than a day, too. Almost sounds like the timing chain banging against something. It's a very short, sharp sound (like one hit on something) and then it stops. It's the same noise as heard in both of the videos on this thread. I just passed 50k miles, but I bought the extended powertrain warranty. If something bad happens, I guess I'll be covered. I'd still like to know what it is, though. Vanos or something else?

I had two SA's watch my video and neither offered an explanation. I documented it, and called it a day.

Still happens to me only after the car has been sitting for a day or two (or more), and only on cold start. Engine is performing beautifully.. I'm not that concerned. Would be nice to know the source -- I think it sounds like something to do with the timing chain, but I'm no mechanic.

M3PO · 07-16-2012, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stronie

I replied in the other thread. That sounds exactly like the sound I had, but much worse. Replacing one the VANOS units solved my issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by midlifecrisis

I get the sharp bang or clatter after mine has been sitting for more than a day, too. Almost sounds like the timing chain banging against something. It's a very short, sharp sound (like one hit on something) and then it stops. It's the same noise as heard in both of the videos on this thread. I just passed 50k miles, but I bought the extended powertrain warranty. If something bad happens, I guess I'll be covered. I'd still like to know what it is, though. Vanos or something else?

I had the same problem. I suspect that you are exactly right that it's chain slap caused by the VANOS units no keeping proper tension on the chain. I'd get your car looked at if I were you. Show them the videos, this thread, and videos of your sound. Tell them to let it sit for a few days and then start it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LM3

I had two SA's watch my video and neither offered an explanation. I documented it, and called it a day.

Still happens to me only after the car has been sitting for a day or two (or more), and only on cold start. Engine is performing beautifully.. I'm not that concerned. Would be nice to know the source -- I think it sounds like something to do with the timing chain, but I'm no mechanic.

See above.

Grail05 · 07-16-2012, 04:46 PM

From what ive read since 2009 i have noticed that this issue is mainly 6MT... I suggest to not release the clutch early after starting the car...

This is just my experience... This issue started on my car since i had 2k miles on my car since then i dont let the clutch off early and it stopped... Now i have 70k miles since then no noise

Race_Doc11 · 07-16-2012, 09:18 PM

Mine is a DCT and I have the noise on and off....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean05

From what ive read since 2009 i have noticed that this issue is mainly 6MT... I suggest to not release the clutch early after starting the car...

This is just my experience... This issue started on my car since i had 2k miles on my car since then i dont let the clutch off early and it stopped... Now i have 70k miles since then no noise

M3PO · 07-17-2012, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean05

From what ive read since 2009 i have noticed that this issue is mainly 6MT... I suggest to not release the clutch early after starting the car...

This is just my experience... This issue started on my car since i had 2k miles on my car since then i dont let the clutch off early and it stopped... Now i have 70k miles since then no noise

This is a VANOS issue. It's not related to the throw out bearing.

a burrito · 07-17-2012, 01:59 PM

I have this as well and I've noticed it since 15k miles, I now have 31k. It seems normal?

FormulaMMM · 07-17-2012, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a burrito

I have this as well and I've noticed it since 15k miles, I now have 31k. It seems normal?

This is not to call into question M3PO's apparently permanent solution with VANOS replacement, but yes, I'm beginning to think that it's pretty normal.

M3PO · 07-17-2012, 07:28 PM

LOL, you guys are in denial or somethin.

nusevad · 07-17-2012, 07:56 PM

I get that noise almost every morning, not as loud but im convinced its the same chatter/noise

whats the worst case secnario that can happen as a result of this? If it is the vanos units going bad

M3PO · 07-18-2012, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FifthStreetz

I get that noise almost every morning, not as loud but im convinced its the same chatter/noise

whats the worst case secnario that can happen as a result of this? If it is the vanos units going bad

That I don't know because I don't know because I don't know exactly what the failure mode is here. My guess would be that the chain slap (if that's what it is) will increase over time. Will that hurt anything? I'm not sure. The Audi guys are having a similar problem with chain rattle on the B6 and B7 S4 at start up and it eventually led to broken tensioners and jumping chains. Take that anecdote as you will.

Race_Doc11 · 07-29-2012, 08:07 PM

The dealer has changed the Vanos tensioners (2). The noise now is weaker and much shorter. Going back to the dealer again.

Grail05 · 07-29-2012, 08:21 PM

My car use to do this and it stop at 10k miles and never had anything replaced now i have 70k miles it still no problem...

mrad01 · 07-30-2012, 07:07 AM

This is not normal. I had this sound (quite badly) and took 5-7 sound recordings of the startup over 2 weeks. I went to the dealer who said they had no idea. I then INSISTED that this get escalated to BMW Germany - which it did.

The sound recordings went to germany and they responded by sending a new crank and bearing. These were fitted and it didn't fix it. VANOS was next. It worked for a short time, then the noise came back.

In the end, BMW Germany air freighted a NEW S65 engine and took mine back for analysis.

Don't settle: Insist germany get involved if your local dealer has no clue. Gather sound recordings. It is not normal. As the customer, if you insist it become escalated, you will find more attention will be paid to your issue.

M3PO · 07-30-2012, 03:34 PM

My car sat for 8 full days and this morning it started up with no sound. So far, replacing the VANOS has worked for me.

ilya335 · 07-30-2012, 03:41 PM

I have the same noise happening occasionally with my 2011 e93 M3 DCT. It sounds like a clunk/pop and less than a grind in my opinion. It is exactly what the OP posted in the video.

So far I've ignored it since the engine hasn't thrown any check engine lights and the car drives with no issues. I am at 10k miles and can remember this noise happening occasionally since I got the car.

ES_TRADER · 07-30-2012, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilya335

I have the same noise happening occasionally with my 2011 e93 M3 DCT. It sounds like a clunk/pop and less than a grind in my opinion. It is exactly what the OP posted in the video.

So far I've ignored it since the engine hasn't thrown any check engine lights and the car drives with no issues. I am at 10k miles and can remember this noise happening occasionally since I got the car.

Same here but I get this noise ever since the car was brand new in 2011. Does that mean I got a lemon? No codes and car has 17k on it now. Going to write this off as normal. It drives great, pulls hard..I see no issue.

Yamdan · 07-31-2012, 02:49 PM

I have the same sound a bit now and then and since so many have it I wont worry about it

PhilsurfM3 · 08-02-2012, 10:45 AM

Just had my car checked and it was confirmed that it is the Vanos and it will get worse. It will get louder over time and will need to be replaced. Looks like a defect in Vanos technology...i'm way over warranty, unfortunately...

ES_TRADER · 08-02-2012, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilsurfM3

Just had my car checked and it was confirmed that it is the Vanos and it will get worse. It will get louder over time and will need to be replaced. Looks like a defect in Vanos technology...i'm way over warranty, unfortunately...

how much will this replacement cost?

and if its a defect in the technology, does that mean after u replace it, u will have to replace it again down the road? kinda like the stupid plastic impellers in the wp?

Cap'n · 08-20-2012, 10:03 PM

Hey fellas (and ladies?)--

I have a fresh instance and go-round with BMW that hopefully helps others here.

I bought my '08 E90 in May, CPO with ~50k miles. I can't recall if I had the grinding sound right out of the gate but it wasn't long if not. I took my car in (Classic BMW in Plano, TX). Given it took a day or two to hear the sound and re-diagnose, along with BMW field reps dragging their feet on the puma case, finally diagnosed as VANOS rattling. Quoting my invoice, "Pulled the valve cover bank two for inspection, found the covers for the intake and exhaust VANOS units twisted and deformed; Converted the case to a TC case ##### and received instructions to replace both VANOS units on left side; Parts on order".

Think again if you think CPO isn't worth the hassle. Any firm numbers on what this might have cost?

My symptoms were identical to the videos. I guess the good news is that there may be visible evidence for those experiencing these symptoms. My car ran like a dream, even with the noise. No failures, but who knows what long term damage this might have been doing. I know it certainly wasn't the way BMW designed the car to operate, and it was generally embarrassing, so didn't think i should have to settle for the car operating that way (by the way, it took 32 days for BMW field reps to own up and approve the VANOS replacement). I had a brand new 328 sported out with 1k miles as my loaner for a month. Nice car for what it is, but little comparison to the M.

Hopefully you all find this helpful. Fun fun given I fixed the VANOS bolts on the E46 M just last year.

07-15-2012, 02:36 PM	#23
Stronie Major 398 Rep 1,476 Posts Drives: 2017 F80M3 Comp. 6MT Join Date: May 2006 Location: Instagram: @Atlantis_S55 iTrader: (0)	Start up Clunk ?? <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/aRUnYVulXWA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Here's mine. Interested to know what it could be? Any additional info. Video was taken after car sat for 7 days. 1st start. Last edited by Stronie; 07-15-2012 at 02:41 PM..
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-15-2012, 04:15 PM	#24
midlifecrisis Major 995 Rep 1,276 Posts Drives: 2017 X5 35d, 2019 230i X Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Jersey iTrader: (0)	I get the sharp bang or clatter after mine has been sitting for more than a day, too. Almost sounds like the timing chain banging against something. It's a very short, sharp sound (like one hit on something) and then it stops. It's the same noise as heard in both of the videos on this thread. I just passed 50k miles, but I bought the extended powertrain warranty. If something bad happens, I guess I'll be covered. I'd still like to know what it is, though. Vanos or something else? __________________ 2017 X5 35d (Performance Center delivery March 2017) 2019 230i X-drive 2022 M3 base 2000 328i sedan (UUC suspension - still the favorite), 2006 M3 slick top - Alpine White/Cinnamon SOLD! 2008 E90 M3 SOLD! 1991 325iX (both great), 2019 Miata RF - various others not as memorable but gone.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-16-2012, 04:46 PM	#27
Grail05 Putcha ang ganda... 371 Rep 5,447 Posts Drives: 17 F82 M4 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Los Angeles, Brea CA. iTrader: (10)	From what ive read since 2009 i have noticed that this issue is mainly 6MT... I suggest to not release the clutch early after starting the car... This is just my experience... This issue started on my car since i had 2k miles on my car since then i dont let the clutch off early and it stopped... Now i have 70k miles since then no noise __________________
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-17-2012, 01:59 PM	#30
a burrito Lieutenant Colonel 68 Rep 1,962 Posts Drives: Urus, 958.2 TTS, 997 S Join Date: May 2005 Location: Irvine, CA iTrader: (1)	I have this as well and I've noticed it since 15k miles, I now have 31k. It seems normal? __________________ Peanut Butter Chunky
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-17-2012, 07:28 PM	#32
M3PO Colonel 104 Rep 2,792 Posts Drives: '08 IB E92 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: OC iTrader: (7)	LOL, you guys are in denial or somethin. __________________ 2008 IB E92 M3\| BBS \| KW \| Arkym \| Platte Forme A.G. \| Active Autowerke \| K&N \| Fabspeed \| Dinan \| Evolve-R
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-17-2012, 07:56 PM	#33
nusevad O! So Sour!! 632 Rep 15,612 Posts Drives: Fast 240z / Slow M3 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: 'Merica! iTrader: (24) Garage List 1971 Datsun 240z [0.00] 2008 M3 [9.58]	I get that noise almost every morning, not as loud but im convinced its the same chatter/noise whats the worst case secnario that can happen as a result of this? If it is the vanos units going bad __________________ Last edited by nusevad; 07-17-2012 at 08:06 PM..
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-29-2012, 08:07 PM	#35
Race_Doc11 Lieutenant Colonel 612 Rep 1,747 Posts Drives: 2023 G82 M4 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: USA iTrader: (2) Garage List 2023 BMW G82 M4 [9.00] 2018 F80 M3 [10.00] 2013 Audi RS5 (Sold) [10.00] 2008 E93 M3 (Sold) [10.00]	The dealer has changed the Vanos tensioners (2). The noise now is weaker and much shorter. Going back to the dealer again.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-29-2012, 08:21 PM	#36
Grail05 Putcha ang ganda... 371 Rep 5,447 Posts Drives: 17 F82 M4 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Los Angeles, Brea CA. iTrader: (10)	My car use to do this and it stop at 10k miles and never had anything replaced now i have 70k miles it still no problem... __________________
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-30-2012, 07:07 AM	#37
mrad01 First Lieutenant 16 Rep 327 Posts Drives: 2008 BMW E90 M3 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New Zealand iTrader: (0)	This is not normal. I had this sound (quite badly) and took 5-7 sound recordings of the startup over 2 weeks. I went to the dealer who said they had no idea. I then INSISTED that this get escalated to BMW Germany - which it did. The sound recordings went to germany and they responded by sending a new crank and bearing. These were fitted and it didn't fix it. VANOS was next. It worked for a short time, then the noise came back. In the end, BMW Germany air freighted a NEW S65 engine and took mine back for analysis. Don't settle: Insist germany get involved if your local dealer has no clue. Gather sound recordings. It is not normal. As the customer, if you insist it become escalated, you will find more attention will be paid to your issue. __________________ 2008 BMW e90 M3 6MT 1990 BMW e30 325i 5MT
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-30-2012, 03:34 PM	#38
M3PO Colonel 104 Rep 2,792 Posts Drives: '08 IB E92 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: OC iTrader: (7)	My car sat for 8 full days and this morning it started up with no sound. So far, replacing the VANOS has worked for me. __________________ 2008 IB E92 M3\| BBS \| KW \| Arkym \| Platte Forme A.G. \| Active Autowerke \| K&N \| Fabspeed \| Dinan \| Evolve-R
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-30-2012, 03:41 PM	#39
ilya335 Second Lieutenant 184 Rep 283 Posts Drives: BMWs Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: West L.A. iTrader: (0)	I have the same noise happening occasionally with my 2011 e93 M3 DCT. It sounds like a clunk/pop and less than a grind in my opinion. It is exactly what the OP posted in the video. So far I've ignored it since the engine hasn't thrown any check engine lights and the car drives with no issues. I am at 10k miles and can remember this noise happening occasionally since I got the car.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-31-2012, 02:49 PM	#41
Yamdan Private 12 Rep 74 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Sweden iTrader: (0)	I have the same sound a bit now and then and since so many have it I wont worry about it
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-02-2012, 10:45 AM	#42
PhilsurfM3 Registered 0 Rep 2 Posts Drives: 2008 E92 M3 euro manual Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Warsaw iTrader: (0)	Just had my car checked and it was confirmed that it is the Vanos and it will get worse. It will get louder over time and will need to be replaced. Looks like a defect in Vanos technology...i'm way over warranty, unfortunately...
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-20-2012, 10:03 PM	#44
Cap'n Frycook on Venus 1 Rep 30 Posts Drives: '21 M5 Comp - Donnington Grey Join Date: May 2012 Location: Northern VA iTrader: (0)	Hey fellas (and ladies?)-- I have a fresh instance and go-round with BMW that hopefully helps others here. I bought my '08 E90 in May, CPO with ~50k miles. I can't recall if I had the grinding sound right out of the gate but it wasn't long if not. I took my car in (Classic BMW in Plano, TX). Given it took a day or two to hear the sound and re-diagnose, along with BMW field reps dragging their feet on the puma case, finally diagnosed as VANOS rattling. Quoting my invoice, "Pulled the valve cover bank two for inspection, found the covers for the intake and exhaust VANOS units twisted and deformed; Converted the case to a TC case ##### and received instructions to replace both VANOS units on left side; Parts on order". Think again if you think CPO isn't worth the hassle. Any firm numbers on what this might have cost? My symptoms were identical to the videos. I guess the good news is that there may be visible evidence for those experiencing these symptoms. My car ran like a dream, even with the noise. No failures, but who knows what long term damage this might have been doing. I know it certainly wasn't the way BMW designed the car to operate, and it was generally embarrassing, so didn't think i should have to settle for the car operating that way (by the way, it took 32 days for BMW field reps to own up and approve the VANOS replacement). I had a brand new 328 sported out with 1k miles as my loaner for a month. Nice car for what it is, but little comparison to the M. Hopefully you all find this helpful. Fun fun given I fixed the VANOS bolts on the E46 M just last year.
	Appreciate 0 Quote