Engine requires rebuild or swap... Due vanos covers

[fernando155]

I went to the garage 15 days ago for an oil leak on the rocket cover. That found one vanos cover missing and it was found on the oil pan. Then that went to checking the rod bearings and oil filter and found rod bearing caput + oil filter full of metal particles.

The engine now requires a full rebuild or swap. Any recommendations for that on east midlands area? The car is now on Autotecknick.

Or at list between London to Manchester

Thank you for any help

[Bmwdoubles_]

Metal in the filter and spun bearings? Or just metal shaving in the filter? Does the car run and have that slapping noise or are they just saying the engine is done.

If your engine is kaput then hit up these guys https://www.instagram.com/straightsi...RlODBiNWFlZA==

They have a bunch of used crate motors they can ship

[fernando155]

Originally Posted by Bmwdoubles_

Metal in the filter and spun bearings? Or just metal shaving in the filter? Does the car run and have that slapping noise or are they just saying the engine is done.

If your engine is kaput then hit up these guys https://www.instagram.com/straightsi...RlODBiNWFlZA==

They have a bunch of used crate motors they can ship

Just metal shavings in the filter. Plus the bearings have some wear too. But the engine was working fine, it was just vanos covers broken and one vanos spring not in the correct position. It went for an oil leak in the rocket Gasket

[MineralWhiteF80]

Edit: just realized you had another thread a few days ago answering some of my questions so disregard my post where necessary.

Sorry to hear that. How confident are you in the engine failure diagnosis? Do you have any photos of the bearings showing catastrophic failure or the type of particulate found in the oil filter? How many miles on the car and what year is it? Have the rod bearings ever been replaced?

It is plausible that the plastic vanos spring retainer cap broke off and was subsequently ground up into small pieces that blocked the oil pickup tube in the oil pan, which caused a lack of lubrication (such as connecting rod/main bearing damage, etc.) and led to engine failure.

The interesting part for me is that you drove the car into the garage normally just to fix a valve [rocker] cover oil leak only to discover complete engine failure. Normally rod bearings that are spun or damaged badly gives you other warning signs such as rod knock. Either you caught the earliest signs of rod bearing failure just before the engine shows obvious signs (knocking noises) or you might not be in as much trouble as you are thinking.

Worst case scenario if you do need major engine repairs, it's generally easier to buy a used replacement engine (long block), and then replace rod bearings/vanos caps before installing the engine as preventative measures. Rebuilding an existing engine opens you up to many more potential quality issues.

[fernando155]

Originally Posted by MineralWhiteF80

Sorry to hear that. How confident are you in the engine failure diagnosis? Do you have any photos of the bearings showing catastrophic failure or the type of particulate found in the oil filter? How many miles on the car and what year is it? Have the rod bearings ever been replaced?

It is plausible that the plastic vanos spring retainer cap broke off and was subsequently ground up into small pieces that blocked the oil pickup tube in the oil pan, which caused a lack of lubrication (such as connecting rod/main bearing damage, etc.) and led to engine failure.

The interesting part for me is that you drove the car into the garage normally just to fix a valve [rocker] cover oil leak only to discover complete engine failure. Normally rod bearings that are spun or damaged badly gives you other warning signs such as rod knock. Either you caught the earliest signs of rod bearing failure just before the engine shows obvious signs (knocking noises) or you might not be in as much trouble as you are thinking.

Worst case scenario if you do need major engine repairs, it's generally easier to buy a used replacement engine (long block), and then replace rod bearings/vanos caps before installing the engine as preventative measures. Rebuilding an existing engine opens you up to many more potential quality issues.

Basically what happened is one thing bring it to another and then to another. I had videos of every step and problem they found, so is pretty legit tbh. I try to attach a photo of one bearing they removed. They show me the filter too and after that they just stop.

I don't know if the engine is gone or not, but if I see that on an aircraft I will ground it... As said, probably just unlucky but they just follow the trace. They are not be able to rebuild or change the engine either, so I can't see any interest to make it like that too.

I really thing and engine change, refurbished and with warranty is better money that try to fix this one. Because is metal shavings around, it needs to be inpected etc, but probably will be the same cost. The car is a 2008 with 103k miles.

As said, is just been picked up really early, so maybe can be save, but as you said, probably is not worth it

[Redd]

Sorry to hear that. Those pics are too grainy to see clearly but if you have that much metal shavings then you likely have engine damage. If you're lucky then your crank is fine and you only need to replace the rods. If your crank is damaged then you're likely looking at an engine replacement.

[fernando155]

So is difficult to see, due it came from a video, but you can see melted plastic in the bearings. When I collected the car ,the mechanic found me and told me about it, due apart of the wear, I couldn't see anything else. But the rod bearing was done, don't know when. But who ever done it, it was a shit job anyway (sealant use was not the right one and was slightly leaking too)

As well, one vanos is toast. Don't know what happened but feels like the spring jumped at some point and someone maybe put it back? Is weird. Just feels like it needs another turn that spring. But because of that it damaged the block (only scarfs thankfully) and the lower cover is toast too(check the top, screw supports are half gone, so probably the metal shavings where coming from there). The leak was from that area, so make sense. The rocket cover looks corroded too? The right side looks new, but that side looks horrible. Inside and outside.

So check the vanos cover guys. This car had 103k miles. Bones looks pretty decent, needs new back brakes, and the abs sensor is caput too, but I can deal with it. The engine will be refurbished so hopefully can keep up with another 100k miles. Just a shame I couldn't have some fun with it yet...

I will ask the garage to have some photos of the main bearings. Just curious. Couldn't hear anything like other guys, but I want to know the state of it.

[ab987]

If they pull the crankshaft and get you main bearing pictures, you're halfway to a solid rebuild. I say put new bearings in it and enjoy another 100k+ 🙂

[fernando155]

Originally Posted by ab987

If they pull the crankshaft and get you main bearing pictures, you're halfway to a solid rebuild. I say put new bearings in it and enjoy another 100k+ 🙂

I'm doing an engine rebuild. So new bearings all around, main and rod, check measurements, clutch and changing the plastic vanos cover for something else and replacing broken parts. If the plastic arrived to the bearings, it means it travel around the engine.

[ab987]

Originally Posted by fernando155

I'm doing an engine rebuild. So new bearings all around, main and rod, check measurements, clutch and changing the plastic vanos cover for something else and replacing broken parts. If the plastic arrived to the bearings, it means it travel around the engine.

I'm going through the same process. Here's to fresh S65s!

[Redd]

So here's another victim of the stock vanos covers breaking and causing engine damage. Get them changed guys.

[straightupfunk]

the metal shavings came from the vanos spring rubbing against the valve cover, not rod/main bearings imo.

the picture you posted of the rod bearing (from the video) doesn't look that bad at all, and the scratch marks from the valve cover 100% explain the metal shavings in the filter.

the fact that you drove your car to the shop for an oil leak means the rod bearings have not spun. if they did, you wouldn't have been able to drive your car to the shop. this shop seems to be pushing a bunch of extra work/$$.

[ab987]

Originally Posted by straightupfunk

the fact that you drove your car to the shop for an oil leak means the rod bearings have not spun. if they did, you wouldn't have been able to drive your car to the shop. this shop seems to be pushing a bunch of extra work/$$.

my final drive after learning that I had melted a main bearing says otherwise, I spun #1 rod too and the engine ran and drove perfectly.

to be honest OP, you're reaching the mileage where bearings all around are a good idea anyways. your rod bearing picture doesn't look great so chances are your mains don't either. if you're in this deep already, I think it's worth the peace of mind so long as the shop is experienced with rebuilding these engines.

[Assimilator1]

Originally Posted by fernando155

I'm doing an engine rebuild. So new bearings all around, main and rod, check measurements, clutch and changing the plastic vanos cover for something else and replacing broken parts. If the plastic arrived to the bearings, it means it travel around the engine.

How's it going?

[fernando155]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

How's it going?

Better than expected. As one of the users said, the metal shavings came from the vanos front cover. So not too bad.

During disassembly No1 main bearing was worn. You can see the photo attached.

Other than that, no more damage other than the exhaust vanos, the cover and bearings.

The engine needed rebuild due who knows how much plastic is around. At the same time I'm doing all the bearings, installing mporium vanos covers, and changing the oil cooler to make sure is no shit around and giving a small upgrade on that.

It's a lot of money all at the same time... But I'm trying to convince myself that at list I have a good engine for a long time.

The only thing wrong from the shop was only 1 rocket cover was required. Don't know if they come in pairs, but the left side was new, or at list look really nice compared with the right that was where all the issues were. And even worse... I didn't know that was a upgrade for them too... But too late now.

[QUOTE]my final drive after learning that I had melted a main bearing says otherwise, I spun #1 rod too and the engine ran and drove perfectly.

to be honest OP, you're reaching the mileage where bearings all around are a good idea anyways. your rod bearing picture doesn't look great so chances are your mains don't either. if you're in this deep already, I think it's worth the peace of mind so long as the shop is experienced with rebuilding these engines.


The shop didn't want to touch the engine at all after what they found. So I had to find somewhere else to fix it. I found a shop that they offer a nice warranty, and they know what I needed.

[Assimilator1]

Forgot to say, thanks for the update.
No1 mains does look somewhat worn, not showing copper though, so not terrible!

Btw, it's rocker cover not rocket cover lol, although I'm pretty sure the S65 doesn't have rockers, so we normally say valve covers, or cam covers in the UK.

Car all good now?

[AYSchweiz]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

Forgot to say, thanks for the update.
No1 mains does look somewhat worn, not showing copper though, so not terrible!

Btw, it's rocker cover not rocket cover lol, although I'm pretty sure the S65 doesn't have rockers, so we normally say valve covers, or cam covers in the UK.

Car all good now?

I believe what we actually see in the image is the #5 main lower cap wear since the picture is of the bedplate, not the upper block. Wear seems logical for that bearing, but pretty safe to assume that the #1 was showing more wear in the upper shell. Maybe OP has images of the upper shells they would be willing to share?

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by AYSchweiz

I believe what's actually shown in the image is the #5 main lower cap since the picture is of the bedplate, not the upper block. Wear seems logical for that bearing, but pretty safe to assume that the #1 was showing more wear in the upper shell. Maybe OP has images of the upper shells they would be willing to share?

Here's a better close up.
.

[AYSchweiz]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Here's a better close up.
.

Yeah, that wear is what I would expect for the #5 lower, assuming most of the constant tension load from the timing chains is counteracted by a reaction at the #5 lower, with the #1 upper effectively acting as a fulcrum.

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by AYSchweiz

Yeah, that wear is what I would expect for the #5 lower, assuming most of the constant tension load from the timing chains is counteracted by a reaction at the #5 lower, with the #1 upper effectively acting as a fulcrum.

According to RocketyMan "Just remember, every time you do these high-rev, quick-blip type of throttles that the front of the crankshaft bends slightly upward and to the left. This is thanks to the two double-roller timing chains and the gear driven oil-pump."
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...22&postcount=4

[RocketyMan]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Here's a better close up.
.

Yup. This makes sense for the rear of the crank--BUT...you also have to account for the weight of the flywheel when it's sagging.

Originally Posted by DrFerry

According to RocketyMan "Just remember, every time you do these high-rev, quick-blip type of throttles that the front of the crankshaft bends slightly upward and to the left. This is thanks to the two double-roller timing chains and the gear driven oil-pump."
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...22&postcount=4

So for the rear-most main, it makes sense that the lower rear main thrust has more wear and the top of #1 main has more wear. Sort of a "cantilever" effect on the crank.

[RocketyMan]

For this rebuild to make sense, the cylinder bores need to be good as well. It'd be nice if OP added some pics for the cylinders as they tend to be very sensitive.

It's imperative that when the conrods are removed, that none of them kiss the cylinder bores. Otherwise it wears/gouges thru to soft aluminum.