TWS vs TWS edge

[Longwong]

Well first off the tws edge also has a low viscosity at the 30 degrees and every other measure of viscosity so its still relevant that compared to tws motorsport, the edge tws pro is a less viscous oil overall which is exactly why you are arguing for the 0w40.

Given the specs of the edge tws pro, and if you take time to warm the engine, I really see no reason to use anything else. I do see your points with the tws motorsport (old formulation) as it was a good deal thicker.

I have to also say several of us in warm climates especially who actually drive their cars each day quite hard, live above the 210 oil temp mark and I have never been to the left of the mark except in cold temps while cruising. So blatently recommending and assuming most people do not reach the 210 mark is not a great idea.

For someone who wants to drive this car hard and also have good thinner viscosity than traditional TWS which all of the data in the other thread is assuming, the edge tws pro seems to be almost an ideal oil. It would be nitpicking to find one better for all types of driving providing you warm it up a bit.

I am going to try the m1 0w50 for kicks but will likely revert back to edge tws

[VCMpower]

My oil temp on my stock 2013 on a nice drive home.

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by VCMpower

How about umm, it is my job, life , business I own. Look up VCM Autoservice in Victoria, bc. Knowledge through hands on experience bro

I knew that

[Longwong]

Originally Posted by VCMpower

My oil temp on my stock 2013 on a nice drive home.

Exactly, I don't know who does not get their oil temps to the middle line (210f) if you atleast drive the damn car. If you never see the middle 210 mark and its summer, than what is the point of an m3. Just seems silly to never barely get the car moving or get the rpms up since if you did the temp would easily 210

Received my mobile 1 0w50 racing. Results,atleast subjective to be done tomorrow. Changing oil tonight

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by Longwong

Well first off the tws edge also has a low viscosity at the 30 degrees and every other measure of viscosity so its still relevant that compared to tws motorsport, the edge tws pro is a less viscous oil overall which is exactly why you are arguing for the 0w40.

Given the specs of the edge tws pro, and if you take time to warm the engine, I really see no reason to use anything else. I do see your points with the tws motorsport (old formulation) as it was a good deal thicker.

I have to also say several of us in warm climates especially who actually drive their cars each day quite hard, live above the 210 oil temp mark and I have never been to the left of the mark except in cold temps while cruising. So blatently recommending and assuming most people do not reach the 210 mark is not a great idea.

For someone who wants to drive this car hard and also have good thinner viscosity than traditional TWS which all of the data in the other thread is assuming, the edge tws pro seems to be almost an ideal oil. It would be nitpicking to find one better for all types of driving providing you warm it up a bit.

I am going to try the m1 0w50 for kicks but will likely revert back to edge tws

Less viscous eh!? No doubt the viscosity numbers are lower but only slightly so! The oil is still a 10W60, no? If it were considerably lighter it would be a 5W or 0W!

[VCP]

Ooo 1313 km make a wish

Originally Posted by VCMpower

My oil temp on my stock 2013 on a nice drive home.

[Longwong]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

Less viscous eh!? No doubt the viscosity numbers are lower but only slightly so! The oil is still a 10W60, no? If it were considerably lighter it would be a 5W or 0W!

Well as you have pointed out, mobil 0w40 is thicker than it would seem and the tws edge is significantly thinner if you look at all the numbers. 21 vs 25 at 100 degrees as mentioned, just as much difference at 30 and every other measure is much lower despite the 10w60 designation. As you know I am sure the range of acceptable viscosities vary drastically.

The mobil 1 racing 0w50 has a viscosity rating of 17.9 at 100 even though many 50 weights have much higher.

The numbers are far less meanfingful than the data.

I have learned bmlvr you sound like you know more about oil than you really do.

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by Longwong

Well as you have pointed out, mobil 0w40 is thicker than it would seem and the tws edge is significantly thinner if you look at all the numbers. 21 vs 25 at 100 degrees as mentioned, just as much difference at 30 and every other measure is much lower despite the 10w60 designation. As you know I am sure the range of acceptable viscosities vary drastically.

The mobil 1 racing 0w50 has a viscosity rating of 17.9 at 100 even though many 50 weights have much higher.

The numbers are far less meanfingful than the data.

I have learned bmlvr you sound like you know more about oil than you really do.

You have learned nothing, I am not a tribologist and don't claim to be.

I work for an oil company that has a large lubricants division and I have received training from my company, and, we have to learn about various oils and lubricants to get a mechanics licence here in Canada! I have tribologists and mechanical engineers at my disposal if need be and I work on engines for a living so I know what oils to specify for specific clearances, loads, and temperatures. What I won't do is claim to know more than I do! I refuse to lead others astray..... That helps no one.

I have put my credentials out there for everyone to see and I think I have the respect of many in the community with regards to engines. I share factual information on the forums to benefit the community based on my credentials and experience!

What are your credentials? What is your experience?...... It is quite obvious in your posts that you are in over your head on many of the conversations yet pretend to know! Why do this? How does this benefit you or anyone else?

P.S.: Viscosity ratings of oils are governed by the SAE. If you took a look you would see that an oil rating is non negotiable..... A 0W40 has to be in the range of a 0W40 and likewise for a 10W60. This is another indication of your lack of knowledge but failure to admit it!

[IMG]

Amen ^

[gatorfast]

So BMRLVR, you recommend a lower weight for engines that don't see high temps. But what about engines that see higher temps (at least 100c) every day? Living in south Florida where it is 90+F year round my oil temp gauge is in the middle or slightly past every time I drive

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

So BMRLVR, you recommend a lower weight for engines that don't see high temps. But what about engines that see higher temps (at least 100c) every day? Living in south Florida where it is 90+F year round my oil temp gauge is in the middle or slightly past every time I drive

People seem to be misunderstanding what I have been recommending! I didn't mention cool temperatures at all as a factor for using light oil...... Obviously in cooler climates it would be even more important to use a lighter oil....... What I am recommending is using lighter oil in the M3 period.

The clearances on the rods of the S65 are so tight that the 10W60 just doesn't make sense for anything but all out balls to the wall track driving! It is my opinion that the majority of the rod bearing wear may be as a result of oil starvation due to flow restriction of the TWS before it gets to operating temperature.

The M1 0W40 really is a stout oil and it is certified by Porsche, AMG and Nissan (GT-R) for use in their high performance engines that are just as or more demanding on engine oil than the S65. Porsche and AMG are two of the strictest automakers with regards to oil requirements for use in their engines!

Personally, I would have no problem using the M1 0W40 year round regardless of outside temps. I would even use it for track days without batting an eye. It's HTHS # of 3.8 it is quite stable when temperatures rise.

[Richbot]

Edge Professional has a significantly higher pour point than TWS. Below 40C that's all we have to go on based on the published specs, and with a much lower pour point TWS appears to do a better job of flowing at low temperatures than the new Edge formulation. I wouldn't say the Edge is superior for cold start protection at all without more information, and the information we have tends to go the other way

[W///]

Originally Posted by Longwong

Exactly, I don't know who does not get their oil temps to the middle line (210f) if you atleast drive the damn car. If you never see the middle 210 mark and its summer, than what is the point of an m3. Just seems silly to never barely get the car moving or get the rpms up since if you did the temp would easily 210

Received my mobile 1 0w50 racing. Results,atleast subjective to be done tomorrow. Changing oil tonight

You started a 20 page thread about S85 bearings going bad, did you learn absolutely nothing?

There is potential wear as you try to get up to temp (210). And for some of us that see outside temperatures below freezing in the winter, I don't even see 210 driving for 30 mins.

Switching to 0W40 allows the oil to heat up faster, thus reducing the time you are in the "danger zone".

[Radiation Joe]

I have to say, even though I run Redline lubricants (in a much lower viscosity than the 10w-60 sludge, BMW recommends), I think the 0W-40 M1 is probably the best recommendation for the vast majority of M3 driving conditions.

Really, How many people who have at least a mediocre level of education on lubricants have chimed in on this forum (and others) about BMW's choice to recommend a 10W-60 oil for these engines? But let's be realistic here, BMW is not going to recommend an oil that would harm the engine. It's just that there are obviously better choices out there for the majority of M3s.

[BPMSport]

I definitely don't get up to 210 with every drive. Really depends on the length of trip and how hard I'm on it.

[VCMpower]

So choose your oil wisely. I will not be running 0W... whatever in my car. Will let you all know when my bottom end fails Read part way through BMRLVR's last post " most bearing wear happens during warm up" Listen to this.

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by VCMpower

So choose your oil wisely. I will not be running 0W... whatever in my car. Will let you all know when my bottom end fails Read part way through BMRLVR's last post " most bearing wear happens during warm up" Listen to this.

Don't worry about the 0W part of the viscosity...... The main thing is the VIscosity at 100C and the HTHS rating! If you can get a good flowing oil for a cold start but retains its viscosity as temps rise, that is the ideal choice for a daily driven car.

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by VCMpower

So choose your oil wisely. I will not be running 0W... whatever in my car. Will let you all know when my bottom end fails Read part way through BMRLVR's last post " most bearing wear happens during warm up" Listen to this.

Careful warmup is something I've always stressed to everyone, and the very reason why we offer the cold start rev limit reduction.

Drives me crazy when I see a dealership start a cold car and flog it down the street. I've seen this way too many times. In fact, I yelled at the guy @ my body shop for getting on my M3 while moving it from the lot to the main shop. It's surprising to me that these practices are commonly overlooked.

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

Careful warmup is something I've always stressed to everyone, and the very reason why we offer the cold start rev limit reduction.

Drives me crazy when I see a dealership start a cold car and flog it down the street. I've seen this way too many times. In fact, I yelled at the guy @ my body shop for getting on my M3 while moving it from the lot to the main shop. It's surprising to me that these practices are commonly overlooked.

Mike, can the cold start rev limit be set under 4k rpm ... I am thinking more like 3k rpm? I want it that low when my wife drives the car. She drives an X3 8-speed auto, and yesterday took my car, and soon the rev limit kicked in at 4k rpm as set by you. Thank goodness for that. This doesn't happen that often, but when it does, I will have a peace of mind ...

[BPMSport]

We can if you like..

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

We can if you like..

Thank you Mike.

[Scharbag]

Man, reading these old posts is fun given some additional information we have today. Stumbled across this on a Google search for oil viscosity information.

Also funny to see a few of the posters in this thread are banned...

Happy motoring.