Dealership wants to replace my engine with 1700 miles on the car. :( (kinda long)

[mdrobc13]

Originally Posted by mattwhite

I know you are upset, but I'd take a deep breath and step back from the situation for a second. These forums are notorious for people screaming "you deserve a new car!" when something like this happens, but you need to be realistic. And I know how you feel, I just had my M-DCT transmission replaced.

I doubt you could get a new car out of this. There's a possibility, but you would need to hire a lawyer and start down the litigation path, which will cost you significant money. Plus after all of that, you might very well lose if push comes to shove. And the process could take months, if not years.

Second, I doubt this will affect your resale value, especially in the long-term. There were many E46 M3 engine swaps, and these cars haven't lost any value from what I've seen. Also, you car has a 4 year warranty, which should be plenty of time for any issues to pop up.


Just my 2 cents.

I kinda concur...remember the e46 M3's had multiple issues with the engine bearings and initially were eating quite a few engines that BMW had to replace at warranty and at no cost for the owners. Also Porsche had a similar problem with RMS seals and oil leaks in their 996 and a few 997 Carrera;s and had to either replace the whole RMS seal assembly or the whole flat six engine for those who's defect was discovered too late for adequate repair. All happened at no cost to the owners and I doubt affected their depreciation...in some cases it helped (i.e. car with brand new motor from factory at 0.0 miles is a nice thing to have when you're buying a car with a few hundred or thousand miles on it to alot of folks) for this particualr reason.

So you can press for a brand new car and you might get BMW NA and BMW AG to agree even the dealership but I kinda agree that if they don't good will that action to you...you'll eat up any savings in lawyer fees and the like. Add in time...months to years for them to even AGREE to give you a new car or be litigated to do such and you could easily be without your car (and out of your hard earned adn paid cash) for a long time!

So if they're gonna replace the engine...let em but I'd suggest that you have the car taken to the VPC or that the head of service do it...not some initial intern or level on mechanic at the dealership! You want it to be done meticulously and just as they placed that baby in the car at the factory!

Sorry for your loss/issue tho. Gotta be rough. hang in there!

[fmquadri]

Originally Posted by IceCold1906

Humm i read somewhere on the forums that if you car is in service for 21+ days or 30 day or something like that, with a specific problem, BMW will replace you vehicle. Have your car/engine sent back to Germany it out of the question if I owned the car. I would definitely ask for a brand new replacement and the earliest slot possible.

I beileve the California lemon law states 30+ days in the shop during a warranty period

[David1]

It isn't difficult to pull the motors in this car. Front subframe, motor, and trans drop out in less than 2 hours.

[hellrotm]

I don't think some of you guys realize how easy it is to lemon a car this days.

Most of the states even allow you to recover attorney fees.

Originally Posted by fmquadri

I beileve the California lemon law states 30+ days in the shop during a warranty period

Exactly this is just one of the ways to lemon a car.

From the very first day you bring the car in for the problem is when you start counting. In your case you brought it to them on May 30th. For each day after that you don't have your car, keep note.

I guarantee by the end of all this, you will be out a car for 30 days. There isn't exactly M3 V8 engines around everywhere.

[bills742]

To the OP, I have the same noise as you described (exactly when you described it happening) which I didn't think was there before my 1200 mile service as well. Not sure what to do...

[IceCold1906]

Originally Posted by fmquadri

I beileve the California lemon law states 30+ days in the shop during a warranty period

ohh ok thanks for clearing that up.

[jm1234]

I've had a couple engines replaced in cars. The only advice I would give is to inspect the crap out of the engine after they replace it. If you don't know anything about engines, then get someone else to inspect their work. You are looking for loose/disconnected hoses (these can be buried deep in the engine). stripped bolts, cracked or broken straps and plastic connectors, etc...

It may be something simple that you don't notice for several years until after you've moved and/or the warranty is up, but it will still piss you off. Four years after (and one 500 mile move) I noticed that a dealership had somehow stripped off the head of a bolt on one of the engine hoist hooks when replacing an engine (weird huh?). It didn't really effect anything unless I ever wanted to pull the engine again. Remember that nothing is too stupid to inspect even the engine mounts, transmission bolts, yada, yada, yada.

I'm also not sure why people want a car with a warranty if every warranty item is cause for asking for a new car? I'd be happy they were not trying to nickel and dime the fix. If there is a lemon law requiring car replacement if the fix is a certain dollar figure and/or time in the shop (say 30 days) they could replace just those parts of the engine making the noise and take up to 30 days to do it. Careful what you ask for, they may comply.

[Seth_Horwitz]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

I guarantee by the end of all this, you will be out a car for 30 days. There isn't exactly M3 V8 engines around everywhere.

I guaranty that BMW will ship a new engine via private jet if they have to, because they want to get his original engine back to find out what went wrong, and prevent it from happening to EVERY other M3 on the road. They'd rather issue a recall for a faulty widget than have to replace every engine they have manufactured. If he's going for Lemon Law, it's going to be value of the car related, as they can get a new engine in the car in a day. (Shit, BMW might instruct the dealer to pull a new one out of another car. Some horribly optioned, horrible color, that no one wants.) Good luck to the OP, though. With my luck, I'd get a new car that had something more serious broken that BMW couldn't diagnose.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by Seth_Horwitz

I guaranty that BMW will ship a new engine via private jet if they have to, because they want to get his original engine back to find out what went wrong, and prevent it from happening to EVERY other M3 on the road.

I would guarantee that won't!

[Seth_Horwitz]

Originally Posted by swamp2

I would guarantee that won't!

Ha. You mock my exaggeration. My point is that this case will be treated very differently from a guy who walks in to the parts department and requests to buy a crate engine.

[phoenixbmwlife]

Did all of you realize that SnowsM3 has not commented since his first post?

I wonder if he was able to read any of our posts before he went out of town.

[Seth_Horwitz]

Originally Posted by K3N R3D

Did all of you realize that SnowsM3 has not commented since his first post?

I wonder if he was able to read any of our posts before he went out of town.

Or maybe BMW offered him a new car if he signed an NDA and wouldn't tell anyone about it, or is just afraid to. That seemed to happen quite a few times early on with the 335i, when a handful of guys cooked engines after running a piggyback computer. All of a sudden, they went silent. Their friends would basically come on and post something along the lines of "the problem has been solved, and he really can't talk about it." Basically, he found a service tech willing to warranty the car, but was afraid that BMWNA would find out so he just kept quiet. Totally different circumstances here, as BMW is clearly in the wrong with the initial damage on this car, but could be a similar type deal where they are paying for something (a whole car) that they really don't have to, and would be motivated to try and reneg if it was advertised. I hope it turned out well for him, whatever was done.

[GT3 Tim]

Originally Posted by IceCold1906

ohh ok thanks for clearing that up.

Look in your owners manual and/or manual suppliments. There will be Lemon Law info for your state in there....read up on it and see what your state's rules are.

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by K3N R3D

Sorry to hear that. However I agree with Jason.

The reason BMW wants your dealer to ship the engine to them is so they can find the problem themselves and record it for future simular problems. Smart move on behalf of BMW.

Good luck with whatever happens.

+1

[SnowsM3]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I just got back into town an hour ago and left a message for the GM of the dealership. I'm waiting for a call back. The last I heard was from my service advisor on Friday that BMW was anxious to get my engine back ASAP adn I told him not to touch the car until I came back. I also let him know that I'm not happy with an engine swap as I've lost faith in this vehicle and would like a replacement. Mainly because of resale having to do with a possible "unable to verify mileage" or some such on the title. I'll keep you posted.

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by SnowsM3

Thanks for the responses everyone. I just got back into town an hour ago and left a message for the GM of the dealership. I'm waiting for a call back. The last I heard was from my service advisor on Friday that BMW was anxious to get my engine back ASAP adn I told him not to touch the car until I came back. I also let him know that I'm not happy with an engine swap as I've lost faith in this vehicle and would like a replacement. Mainly because of resale having to do with a possible "unable to verify mileage" or some such on the title. I'll keep you posted.

Good Luck!

[David1]

I wouldn't be sweating over this. I would have had them swap the motor already and driving the car. Motors get swapped every day. There is no record on the title, there is no reason to worry about verifying the mileage, the car will still depreciate the same no mater what motor is in it. Lost faith, give me a fricking break! And you guys wonder why we are looked upon as snobs. My business partner had his motor replaced on his 07MB 600sl for piston slap. (V12 twin turbo) MB express delivered a motor, he still drove the car, called him and said the motor was in and drop off the car, 2 days later and was back on the road. Did he care his new car needed a motor swap on a 140k car? nope. This isn't the sixties where we need to have matching number cars. Next, you guys will want a new car when a half shaft shatters at the strip.

[Seth_Horwitz]

Originally Posted by David1

This isn't the sixties where we need to have matching number cars.

I hate to break it to you, but we still use odometers, and that's what can be the problem if not properly calibrated. I don't know the law, but I'd check it. I completely agree that a new engine is fine, though, as long as everything is done properly.

[M2MG17]

Call BMW NA and as soon as they pick up ask directly for the "Executive Offices" and they will transfer you.

This will allow you to speak directly to someone in management. How do I know? This happened to me with my E46 M3 SMG and they replaced my long block and refused to give me a new car.

I would also try and drag the time the car is in the shop so it hits the 30 day minimum and lemon the car.

I sold my e46 m3 the week after they swapped out the engine because everytime i got into the car i was worried and paraniod about the car and did not trust my dealer installing the engine correctly.
Maybe it was mental but i just spent $60k cash on a new car and i was not going to have it.

Hope this helps.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by David1

I wouldn't be sweating over this. I would have had them swap the motor already and driving the car. Motors get swapped every day. There is no record on the title, there is no reason to worry about verifying the mileage, the car will still depreciate the same no mater what motor is in it. Lost faith, give me a fricking break! And you guys wonder why we are looked upon as snobs. My business partner had his motor replaced on his 07MB 600sl for piston slap. (V12 twin turbo) MB express delivered a motor, he still drove the car, called him and said the motor was in and drop off the car, 2 days later and was back on the road. Did he care his new car needed a motor swap on a 140k car? nope. This isn't the sixties where we need to have matching number cars. Next, you guys will want a new car when a half shaft shatters at the strip.

+1

[tjbuz]

Originally Posted by bills742

To the OP, I have the same noise as you described (exactly when you described it happening) which I didn't think was there before my 1200 mile service as well. Not sure what to do...

SnowsM3, did you hears bills742's video? http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149811 It sounds just like your car. Bills, I would have your dealer check it out ASAP. Maybe they can call the service techs at BMW North Scottsdale for some info.

[MDCTFTW]

Any update Snow?