AST 4200 & Vorshlag Camber Plate Review

STALKER wrote

Any more updates?

Still enjoying them. I went for a spin in the hills this weekend and continue to be impressed.
I'll probably be pretty active in NASA tt this year and will have results and data logging to share as the season progresses.

Do they feel, ride and handle much better then your old Motons?

STALKER wrote

Do they feel, ride and handle much better then your old Motons?

It's hard for me to compare them against the Motons because I never really got the Motons to work on the car, but I'd say they're pretty darn close!

The AST's and Motons have a very different feel to them in terms of ride quality - not sure if I would say one is better than the other, just different.

As far as adjustablilty, they both satisfy both ends of the spectrum really well and provide a (relatively) comfy street ride AND solid track performance. The Moton's 'clicks' made more of a difference but I found the less sentive AST clicks easier to dial in. I sometimes felt like the sweetspot of the motons would have been in between adjustment clicks.

Stalker, did you get your JRZ's yet? It will be interesting to see how those stack up too!

RickyBobby wrote

It's hard for me to compare them against the Motons because I never really got the Motons to work on the car, but I'd say they're pretty darn close!

The AST's and Motons have a very different feel to them in terms of ride quality - not sure if I would say one is better than the other, just different.

As far as adjustablilty, they both satisfy both ends of the spectrum really well and provide a (relatively) comfy street ride AND solid track performance. The Moton's 'clicks' made more of a difference but I found the less sentive AST clicks easier to dial in. I sometimes felt like the sweetspot of the motons would have been in between adjustment clicks.

Stalker, did you get your JRZ's yet? It will be interesting to see how those stack up too!

Still waiting.
Last I heard they were making a few changes to the camber plates, that is what is holding things up.

thanks for the review!! it would be to hear how these compare to the JRZ RSs in performance!

RickyBobby wrote

It's hard for me to compare them against the Motons because I never really got the Motons to work on the car, but I'd say they're pretty darn close!

The AST's and Motons have a very different feel to them in terms of ride quality - not sure if I would say one is better than the other, just different.

As far as adjustablilty, they both satisfy both ends of the spectrum really well and provide a (relatively) comfy street ride AND solid track performance. The Moton's 'clicks' made more of a difference but I found the less sentive AST clicks easier to dial in. I sometimes felt like the sweetspot of the motons would have been in between adjustment clicks.

Stalker, did you get your JRZ's yet? It will be interesting to see how those stack up too!

On the street, is the ride "bouncy" at all? I know we don't know your spring rates, so that will be a big variable.

Did AST get the bump stops right in your opinion?

Did you experience any snap on oversteer at the track, is the rear end planted through the apex?

How does the car ride on the street?

STALKER wrote

On the street, is the ride "bouncy" at all? I know we don't know your spring rates, so that will be a big variable.

Did AST get the bump stops right in your opinion?

Did you experience any snap on oversteer at the track, is the rear end planted through the apex?

I don't believe the bump stop is the issue here. Most of the suspension manufactures and tuners did not take the much lowered ride height and reduced compression travel into consideration and simply use standard body rear dampers, which offer plenty of compression travel at oem ride height, but greatly reduced when a vehicle is lowered too much.

One thing to keep in mind is that lower is not better here. And we all know what happens when your run your M3 too low.

You can trim the bump stops(not a good idea as bump stops serves as secondary springs and most importantly to prevent bottoming of your dampers), using shorter compression damper cushions(you are not gaining much here, a few mm's at best), the better or maybe the best solution is to use a short body damper.

RickyBobby wrote

They're monotube double adjustable. Rebound is on the top and compression is on the bottom. The adjustment clicks are very positive and solid feeling too.

Here is a picture of the camber plate.

Are you sure they are monotube? The AST site says that the 4200 are twintube.

STALKER wrote

On the street, is the ride "bouncy" at all? I know we don't know your spring rates, so that will be a big variable.

Did AST get the bump stops right in your opinion?

Did you experience any snap on oversteer at the track, is the rear end planted through the apex?

Sorry, I could swear I answered your questions but I don't see the post.

The car is not bouncy even with 600+ springs. Also no issues with bumpstops like the motons and no snap oversteer.

CSMRX7, They're definitely monotube. Show me the link that says they are twin tube.

RickyBobby wrote

Sorry, I could swear I answered your questions but I don't see the post.

The car is not bouncy even with 600+ springs. Also no issues with bumpstops like the motons and no snap oversteer.

CSMRX7, They're definitely monotube. Show me the link that says they are twin tube.

RickyBobby wrote

Sorry, I could swear I answered your questions but I don't see the post.

The car is not bouncy even with 600+ springs. Also no issues with bumpstops like the motons and no snap oversteer.

CSMRX7, They're definitely monotube. Show me the link that says they are twin tube.

If your rear dampers were to sit on the bump stop and fully compress it, then the car is likely to go into snap oversteer. It's okay to touch or even compress the bump stops slightly through a corner.

RickyBobby, did you consider the 5100 series as well when you purchased these?

I had 5200's on my 135i (with M3 rear camber links) and will be upgrading to 5300's and putting them on my E90 M3. Been working with Harold and settled on 500#/800# setup. OP, do you happen to know the lengths of your springs and are you willing to disclose your spring rates?

FWIW, I too am sold on these dampers with the swift springs. The ride on the street is incredible and the performance is definitely there!!

Stalker, I didn't consider the 5100's because I wanted double adjustable shocks. The 5200's weren't available yet so I got the 4200's. I may have splurged for the 5200's if they were an option at the time but they do add a considerable amount of cost and NASA TT points for the marginal performance gain. No regrets with the 4200's..

Justin, congrats on the M3. Front springs should be 7" and the rears should be 9" total lengh (8" w/ helper or 9" depending on rates). I'm not sure I believe in any of the magic that people are claiming with the swift springs. I have run both swift and hyperco on the AST's and felt no difference at all. When held side by side, they both had the same number of coils and looked pretty darn close in wire diameter. They're both top notch springs but do not have any bearing on the ride quality like the marketing martial suggests.

I knocked off a 2:01 at thunderhill last weekend all while locking up the rears due to being sent the wrong front brake pads. I can't wait to go back next month with the right pads.

I do have to report that I just took off one shock to send back for warranty repair due to leaking. I'm sure it will be turned around very quickly and I'll be back on the road in no time.

RickyBobby wrote

Stalker, I didn't consider the 5100's because I wanted double adjustable shocks. The 5200's weren't available yet so I got the 4200's. I may have splurged for the 5200's if they were an option at the time but they do add a considerable amount of cost and NASA TT points for the marginal performance gain. No regrets with the 4200's..

Justin, congrats on the M3. Front springs should be 7" and the rears should be 9" total lengh (8" w/ helper or 9" depending on rates). I'm not sure I believe in any of the magic that people are claiming with the swift springs. I have run both swift and hyperco on the AST's and felt no difference at all. When held side by side, they both had the same number of coils and looked pretty darn close in wire diameter. They're both top notch springs but do not have any bearing on the ride quality like the marketing martial suggests.

I knocked off a 2:01 at thunderhill last weekend all while locking up the rears due to being sent the wrong front brake pads. I can't wait to go back next month with the right pads.

I do have to report that I just took off one shock to send back for warranty repair due to leaking. I'm sure it will be turned around very quickly and I'll be back on the road in no time.

RickyBobby, thanks for the reply. I've got 8" springs with helpers on the rear I believe from my 1 series. I'll go with the 7" springs and add a helper if the spring is loose at full droop. I really think these dampers are amazing!

RickyBobby wrote

Stalker, I didn't consider the 5100's because I wanted double adjustable shocks. The 5200's weren't available yet so I got the 4200's. I may have splurged for the 5200's if they were an option at the time but they do add a considerable amount of cost and NASA TT points for the marginal performance gain. No regrets with the 4200's..

Justin, congrats on the M3. Front springs should be 7" and the rears should be 9" total lengh (8" w/ helper or 9" depending on rates). I'm not sure I believe in any of the magic that people are claiming with the swift springs. I have run both swift and hyperco on the AST's and felt no difference at all. When held side by side, they both had the same number of coils and looked pretty darn close in wire diameter. They're both top notch springs but do not have any bearing on the ride quality like the marketing martial suggests.

I knocked off a 2:01 at thunderhill last weekend all while locking up the rears due to being sent the wrong front brake pads. I can't wait to go back next month with the right pads.

I do have to report that I just took off one shock to send back for warranty repair due to leaking. I'm sure it will be turned around very quickly and I'll be back on the road in no time.

Thanks for the for the feedback.
Hopefully they get a new shock out to you fast.

Did they tell you exactly what the problem is??

I'm sending it back today so I'm not sure of the root cause. It's covered under warranty with the promise to get it back to me before my next (double points) event so all is good as far as I'm concerned.

I'll post back when I break 2 minutes next month.

Would you say this setup is comparable/more advanced than the KW Clubsport?

CSMRX7 wrote

Are you sure they are monotube? The AST site says that the 4200 are twintube.

What they mean by "twin tube" is:
If the shock is "Double-Adjustable", but does NOT have an external reservoir canister .. it is considered a "twin-tube" design.

True Double-Adjustable 'Monotube' shocks usually have an external reservoir canister (2 Monotube shocks = Dual-Adj)

http://www.ast-usa.com/ast-4200-shock-absorber-coilover-kit.php

AST-USA are calling it a "monotube" design ... with "INTERNAL DOUBLES" ??
Thats basically "Twin-Tube"
So I myself am confused by the terminology at this point.

RickyBobby wrote

I'm sending it back today so I'm not sure of the root cause. It's covered under warranty with the promise to get it back to me before my next (double points) event so all is good as far as I'm concerned.

I'll post back when I break 2 minutes next month.

I've seen Advanced Design, Konis, Motons and JRZs leak ... so I dont think it's an 'exclusive' problem.
We have a 4200 kit for one of our e36m3 race cars on its way -- but its taking a bit, due to the true rear coilover setup

It is a single tube, monotube. It essentially has a reservoir in line
at the base of the shock. In circle track world they call it a base
valve. And it is pressurized.

A twin tube has concentric tubes and oil flows from one tube to the
other. In between the two tubes is a valve usually called a foot
valve. Twin tubes are rarely pressurized but those that are have the
gas mixed in the oil. That is called emulsion. AST 4200 keeps the gas
and oil separated.