DCT owners - your help requiered!

Hi,

I have just ordered an E90 M3 with DCT and will be trading in my 6MT 335i in a few months time (cant wait!)

I have done my research and know about the DCT 'lag' issues although i would expect to get the latest sofware on a July build M3 so hopefully this will not be too much of an issue.

I have always driven a manual and there are a few questions i would appreciate DCT owners answering for me if possible.

1. Is driving in stop start traffic tricky with this gearbox? I have read that the DCT does not 'creep' forward when in first gear when the brake is released like a convensional automatic. Does this make it difficult to drive in very slow traffic when in a manual car you could just engage the clutch and 'roll' and in an automatic you just take your foot off the brake and creep forward without and throttle input. I suppose what im trying to say is that is it a nightmare when you are travelling at very slow speeds in general - stop/start traffic and parking for example.

2. If the answer to the above is yes then do you find yourself constantly throttle/brake......throttle/ brake in these situations? What technique do you use.

3. Do any of you wish you had gone 6MT!

4. Finally anyone who went from 335 to M3 please post up youre views on the change to keep me going until my delivery in August!


Many thanks in advance

1. No problem at all.
2.-
3.No

You'll be fine.
With DCT, if you want to creep forward, you certainly can - even up an incline. Just feather the accelerator, and it will creep for you. Quite amazing, really, insofar as the transmission and software have to be able to crawl forward, or, in other circumstances, deal with a full throttle, foot-to-the-floor launch.
DCT is a breeze to drive in slow traffic. Just as easy as an automatic, I believe.

1 and 2. Yes, it is definitely different. Not tricky but different. It takes a bit of getting used to. But it does have a 'walk' mode whereby you tap the gas and it creeps along at about 2 mph. It just does not start off by itself when you release the break.

3. Not really. And I tend to prefer manual. But I could live with either.

4. N/A

MDCT is excellent. If you have always driven a manual then it'll take some getting use to, especially the fact that there is no clutch. But it is excellent in stop and go traffic. As was previously mentioned just tap the accelerator and it will begin to inch forward like a normal automatic. MDCT is a vast improvement over SMG in every way possible. It may take some getting used to but it's very efficient. I don't care who you are, you will never be able to shift a 6MT as fast as the MDCT.

Since the weather got better I've been driving the M3 alot in D5. It shifts like I would.

This car is a dream. Just drive like you would a manual and you'll be fine.

Thanks for your answers - i didnt know that if you touched the throttle it would creep forward like a normal auto box. Sounds like everyone loves the DCT - cant wait for the car now!

M-DCT is very easy to drive in slow situations. You'll get used to it in no time and driving a conventional auto that creeps forward when you let off the brake will seem odd.

You mentioned lag and I want to touch on that in a little more detail as this is what takes getting used to the most with the dual clutch transmission. Before I had the software update on my 2010 M, there was a pronounced lag between application of pressure to the accelerator and the car actually responding to my input after slowing down from speed. Say I was cruising in 7th at 55 MPH and slowing down to take a 90 degree turn at 20 MPH. Upon hitting the gas through the turn, it would take 2 seconds from the time I hit the accelerator to when the car would rev up and begin accelerating. Lag, and then woomph, full power of the M V8 thrusting you into your seat.

The software update has certainly slowed, but not eliminated this lag. I have actually learned how to drive the car with the knowledge that it is a manual with gears engaged to eliminate the lag. I have found myself downshifting into 3 as I am decelerating just about to turn, while still breaking, to allow the transmission to get from 6 or 7 to 3. Then in the turn I downshift into 2nd and hit the accelerator at exactly the same time - instant, lag free throttle response.

TTBear wrote

You'll be fine.
With DCT, if you want to creep forward, you certainly can - even up an incline. Just feather the accelerator, and it will creep for you. Quite amazing, really, insofar as the transmission and software have to be able to crawl forward, or, in other circumstances, deal with a full throttle, foot-to-the-floor launch.
DCT is a breeze to drive in slow traffic. Just as easy as an automatic, I believe.

I saw some photos of your car in another thread and love the colour. I was going to go with Azurite but ended up with jerez as going individual would have delayed my delivery even more. Its hard to capture these colours in photos - have you seen a Jerez car in the flesh ?- if you have how would you describe the differences between the two?

JustABreathAway wrote

M-DCT is very easy to drive in slow situations. You'll get used to it in no time and driving a conventional auto that creeps forward when you let off the brake will seem odd.

You mentioned lag and I want to touch on that in a little more detail as this is what takes getting used to the most with the dual clutch transmission. Before I had the software update on my 2010 M, there was a pronounced lag between application of pressure to the accelerator and the car actually responding to my input after slowing down from speed. Say I was cruising in 7th at 55 MPH and slowing down to take a 90 degree turn at 20 MPH. Upon hitting the gas through the turn, it would take 2 seconds from the time I hit the accelerator to when the car would rev up and begin accelerating. Lag, and then woomph, full power of the M V8 thrusting you into your seat.

The software update has certainly slowed, but not eliminated this lag. I have actually learned how to drive the car with the knowledge that it is a manual with gears engaged to eliminate the lag. I have found myself downshifting into 3 as I am decelerating just about to turn, while still breaking, to allow the transmission to get from 6 or 7 to 3. Then in the turn I downshift into 2nd and hit the accelerator at exactly the same time - instant, lag free throttle response.

Great info - thanks! So if you were going into a 3rd gear corner you would select 4th while breaking to give the car time to pre select 3rd and then just before turn in select 3rd? Is this correct?

Agree with the above posts. Sometimes in really slow stop and go traffic I'll put it into D mode and let the car think for itself. But if you came from a MT, you'll probobly find you are continuing to shift for yourself in S mode as D mode upshifts too early (IMHO) in default settings. You are going to have a ball with this car.

Now, the 335 compared to the M3...

I got my 2008 E90 335 2 summers ago and still have it as the wife's car. I bought my 2010 E90 M3 1 month ago and got through the break-in period last week.

Visually, the M3 is stunning compared to the 335, even with the BMW aerodynamic kit I have on the TTI6. The interior of the M is much more luxurious - the Navillo leather, especially extended, is in another league compared to what's offered in the 335. Images don't do the difference justice.

The driving dynamics are very different between the 2 cars. The M feels much more solid and hefty throughout. You can take corners at much higher speed and with a greater degree of confidence in the M. You feel like you know exactly where the M is going and it just wants to go through corners much more quickly. The 335 feels planted as you gain speed, but nothing compared to the M. Speeds in the triple digits feel entirely comfortable and nonchalant in the Mcar.

The engine in the M is also much more pronounced than in the TTI6. While you barely notice what the engine is doing in the 335, in the M you are constantly aware of it gaining or losing speed. The M's engine responds much more quickly to your inputs. The TTI6 seemed to run out of steam or get a little sluggish when you took it all the way up to redline, while the M starts to increase its rate of acceleration as you go above 4500 RPM.

The ability to customize the driving experience in the M3 is phenomenal. You can cruise along with the family in the more comfortable settings with a ride that is more lush than that of the 335. At the push of the M button, literally in a second, the car becomes a monster in full out attack mode. Its truly amazing how different the character becomes with that button, and you can put the settings anywhere in between.

In short, the 335 is a great car, but the M3 is an experience to behold every time you get in it. You will have an absolute blast - Cheers!!

ss134 wrote

Thanks for your answers - i didnt know that if you touched the throttle it would creep forward like a normal auto box. Sounds like everyone loves the DCT - cant wait for the car now!

Not only that but if you select 2nd gear while "creeping" along it will do the same thing as in first but with a little bit faster creep.

And no, DCT is perfect, I don't wish I had bought a 6MT and that's after having a MT all my life.

ss134 wrote

1. Is driving in stop start traffic tricky with this gearbox? I have read that the DCT does not 'creep' forward when in first gear when the brake is released like a convensional automatic. Does this make it difficult to drive in very slow traffic when in a manual car you could just engage the clutch and 'roll' and in an automatic you just take your foot off the brake and creep forward without and throttle input. I suppose what im trying to say is that is it a nightmare when you are travelling at very slow speeds in general - stop/start traffic and parking for example.

In both a manual and automatic you still need to use the brake to come to a complete stop. So you still need two pedals there also.

Also keep in mind that with the DCT, you must bring the car to a full stop to require the need to apply the accelerator to get going again. If instead you merely slow down to a near stop, just lifting from the brake again will get the car going. You can then use the gearbox to select between 1st gear and 2nd gear to give you the speed you want.

JustABreathAway wrote

Now, the 335 compared to the M3...

I got my 2008 E90 335 2 summers ago and still have it as the wife's car. I bought my 2010 E90 M3 1 month ago and got through the break-in period last week.

Visually, the M3 is stunning compared to the 335, even with the BMW aerodynamic kit I have on the TTI6. The interior of the M is much more luxurious - the Navillo leather, especially extended, is in another league compared to what's offered in the 335. Images don't do the difference justice.

The driving dynamics are very different between the 2 cars. The M feels much more solid and hefty throughout. You can take corners at much higher speed and with a greater degree of confidence in the M. You feel like you know exactly where the M is going and it just wants to go through corners much more quickly. The 335 feels planted as you gain speed, but nothing compared to the M. Speeds in the triple digits feel entirely comfortable and nonchalant in the Mcar.

The engine in the M is also much more pronounced than in the TTI6. While you barely notice what the engine is doing in the 335, in the M you are constantly aware of it gaining or losing speed. The M's engine responds much more quickly to your inputs. The TTI6 seemed to run out of steam or get a little sluggish when you took it all the way up to redline, while the M starts to increase its rate of acceleration as you go above 4500 RPM.

The ability to customize the driving experience in the M3 is phenomenal. You can cruise along with the family in the more comfortable settings with a ride that is more lush than that of the 335. At the push of the M button, literally in a second, the car becomes a monster in full out attack mode. Its truly amazing how different the character becomes with that button, and you can put the settings anywhere in between.

In short, the 335 is a great car, but the M3 is an experience to behold every time you get in it. You will have an absolute blast - Cheers!!

Awesome post! Of course i know that the M is faster and handles better but i have not been able to get a test drive here in Germany (ironic isnt it!) so have ordered the car blind so to speak. Would you say that 4500rpm is the optimum revs for best acceleration in the M?

The 335 picks up best from around 3000rpm i find. How much 'seat of the pants' difference is there when you initially plant the throttle -from 4500rpm for example compared to 3000 in the 335- does it 'feel' that much faster? (my 335 is not tuned)

The 335 seemed to lose composure above 140mph on the autobahn (even with M sport suspension, i dont think the RFT's help) and also the steering has little feel on turn in (feel like i have to turn the wheel a long way before it weights up if that makes sense) and can feel a bit 'loose on the straight ahead - i have read that steering feel in the M is one of its weaker points - how would you compare it to the 335?

Sorry for all of the questions but like i said i havent had a test drive although i feel you guys are giving me an online test drive!

skierman64 wrote

Not only that but if you select 2nd gear while "creeping" along it will do the same thing as in first but with a little bit faster creep.

And no, I DCT is perfect, I don't wish I had bought a 6MT and that's after having a MT all my life.

Seems like no on is regretting getting a DCT car which is reassuring!

ss134 wrote

Seems like no on is regretting getting a DCT car which is reassuring!

I'm happy with mine.

1. Driving in stop-and-go traffic is very easy with the DCT. As others have stated, simply tapping the accelerator will allow the car to creep forward. If you brake without coming to a complete stop, you are able to continue to creep. After coming to a complete stop, you don't have to hold your foot on the brake like you do with an automatic (unless you're on a hill). If traffic is heavy, I let the DCT do the shifting for me (I always shift myself when not in heavy traffic). In short, the DCT is very smooth in traffic and far superior to the clutch work associated with a manual.

2. You will definitely have fewer accelerator/brake actions with the DCT in heavy traffic than you would with a manual. The ability to move forward in creep mode without having to hold your foot on the brake when stopped gives you the strength of an automatic without the associated weakness.

3. Absolutely not! Almost every car I've owned has been a manual. Without renewing the endless debate between DCT and 6MT, I feel that the DCT is superior in both performance and every-day driveability. I have no regrets at all!

1. No, not at all. The driving dynamics of M-DCT differ depending on whether you are in the manual mode (S) or the "automatic" mode (D). I find myself driving 99.9% in S mode (except when I have a cup of coffee) and using the shift paddles not the console shifter. I have found no lag at all in the S mode, and occasional downshifting lag in D mode when slowing to corner or turn. In any type driving, including start/stop driving, when in S mode, simply select the gear that best suits the engine RPM and drive normally. Just as in a MT, the engine will lug in slow driving if you are in too high a gear. Also, the M-DCT will downshift automatically when you approach a stop. It will go all the way to 1st if you come to a complete stop but will go to 2nd if you come to a rolling stop. Overall I love it.

3. No

I have had a manual for the past 25 years and in my M3 I wanted the DCT. While there is a learning curve the DCT is an excellent transmission. It is, however, not the same as a manual and has its quarks. There is a cold start cycle that has startled many of us on this site: when cold the idle is elevated and the clutch will engage very gradually (to prevent engine stall) and it may feel as though the brake is on or the car is running in sand. This is normal and goes away quickly. In some areas the transmission is brilliant such as shifting in high speed corners where its speed and ability to keep both hands on the wheel cannot be overstated. Around town or when having a cool beverage the auto mode is most welcome but a manual shift is just a paddle pull away. One area you may want to research is the long term reliability of this device. The transmission costs about 10k and keeping the car beyond the warranty may be a risk but because it is so new there really is not enough data to make an informed decision. This is an area I am watching closely.
I don't know you and the things you value but I think you will be happy with the DCT. You will have the most recent software (I just got it for mine) and this program has eliminated almost all of the problems plaguing the transmission. I am very happy with mine and would order it again given the option. Oh, by the way, you will love the car, it is the finest machine I have ever owned and I have owned many including Porsche. Best of luck.

M3Bliss wrote

I have had a manual for the past 25 years and in my M3 I wanted the DCT. While there is a learning curve the DCT is an excellent transmission. It is, however, not the same as a manual and has its quarks. There is a cold start cycle that has startled many of us on this site: when cold the idle is elevated and the clutch will engage very gradually (to prevent engine stall) and it may feel as though the brake is on or the car is running in sand. This is normal and goes away quickly. In some areas the transmission is brilliant such as shifting in high speed corners where its speed and ability to keep both hands on the wheel cannot be overstated. Around town or when having a cool beverage the auto mode is most welcome but a manual shift is just a paddle pull away. One area you may want to research is the long term reliability of this device. The transmission costs about 10k and keeping the car beyond the warranty may be a risk but because it is so new there really is not enough data to make an informed decision. This is an area I am watching closely.
I don't know you and the things you value but I think you will be happy with the DCT. You will have the most recent software (I just got it for mine) and this program has eliminated almost all of the problems plaguing the transmission. I am very happy with mine and would order it again given the option. Oh, by the way, you will love the car, it is the finest machine I have ever owned and I have owned many including Porsche. Best of luck.

Thanks you for your response, it is great to read that people love this car so much, i honestly cannot wait for delivery now and although the 335 is a great car it was never quite enough for me - not talking about straight line speed (which is very good) but more so the overall feel of the car. I have got high hopes that the M will give me what i have been looking for.

ss134 wrote

I saw some photos of your car in another thread and love the colour. I was going to go with Azurite but ended up with jerez as going individual would have delayed my delivery even more. Its hard to capture these colours in photos - have you seen a Jerez car in the flesh ?- if you have how would you describe the differences between the two?

Thanks!

Go here:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263778&page=3

Post #54 - I describe what Azurite is like, compared with Jerez and with Carbon Black (as well as I am able.... )