Some Interesting Findings on the Dinan Stage 1 Kit

lucid wrote

Finally, there is the mystery around the rear bumpstops. See quote from one of Greg's earlier posts in this thread:

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon
Their kit description said new front AND rear bumpstops were included (does not say exactly that now). When I contacted them after not receiving the rears, they sent me some.

A key product feature had been advertised, and then removed within weeks of the release of the product. What does that say about the development process behind all this? Are they randomly trying things to see what works? More importantly, are they doing that after the product is released? .

GregW / Oregon wrote

I'll somewhat take Dinan's side on this - they claim the rear bumpstop listing was a cut and paste error in the product description on their website, apparently a modified version of another model. I can see how this could easily happen.

lucid wrote

If it was a cut and paste error, why did they send you the part?

GregW / Oregon wrote

They mis-read my email and thought I did not get the front bumpstops, which is what they sent me.

GregW / Oregon wrote

They mis-read my email and thought I did not get the front bumpstops, which is what they sent me.

lucid wrote

Fine, an advertising error and a communication error. Not related to the engineering process, but says something about something else. Anyway, I formed my opinion mainly on the basis of Dinan supplied information (I saw what you saw on the website initially), and your clarification is useful. Regardless, my original point stands (not as firmly, but it is still relevant). Making design changes to a simple structural component shortly after the release of the product will raise questions in any context.

isugoo wrote

While we're waiting to hear from Dinan about the 1st gen sedan kit owners, let's take a break and go off topic for sec.

Some of forum members know that I got my Dinan exhaust installed same day with suspension kit. Look what they sent me- mismatching tips!
Driver side tips are fully painted and pass side tips are only 2/3 painted!
This tells me something about modern day Dinan. It's 2nd day waiting hear back from Dinan.

doba_s wrote

this is ridiculous ... these are the parts that we can see ... what about internal parts that we don't see ? what is they " accidentally " messed something up there too ?

Sorry but now I have doubts about Dinan's quality ...

The only thing I had from Dinan it was my 3.62LSD ... After decision was made by BMW to by my previous M3 back, I decided to call Dinan to see if I can salvage 3.62 and re-installe it on my next car ... Well, after 2 months trying to get some answers from Chris (their sales guy), and after trying to work things out ( I was willing to pay for whatever it was, just so I can keep my diff) I finally gave up and returned my car with it ...

I told to myself ... No matter how good the company is, if their customer service totally sucks, I would never again give them my business ... When I buy product, I also want to have a customer support with it ... I can't even imagine if you even need to deal with them regarding the warranty issues ...

Anyway ... I hope they will pay for your time, and installation fees ...

isugoo wrote

I waited 2 days and I called today to talk to Scott (Dinan's east coast sales rep, Chris is their west coast sales rep) since I was getting annoyed waiting.
He will send me a new exhaust for driver side (according to him, 2/3 painted tips are what it suppose to look like although I like fully painted tip much better) with return shipping label. I asked him about the re-installation fee. He said I can fax invoice to their tech support for refund check. (I'm sure it'll take some time knowing Dinan).

I'll not go off topic too much but I'll still let you know how long it actually takes to get the new exhaust from them. =)

GregW / Oregon wrote

Can you see this at all from normal viewing angles? I know it will bug you know it's there, but may not be worth the hassle to change?

lucid wrote

It's not that simple.

My point is that the mounting of the spring is a relatively straight forward modification. It's not a complex system that could take several product releases to iron out. They are not sending people to the moon. If they can't do the engineering behind how to install springs as best as they can during their first release, then I can question if they did solid engineering the first time around. I might not be legally entitled to a refund or an upgrade--I didn't make such legalistic demands in my prior post--but I am certainly entitled to that question as a consumer, which is the essence of my post.

When you make a product release decision, you might choose to cut corners and release something you know you could improve upon. That's a business decision, and doesn't in anyway mean that you are releasing a well engineered product.

As an extreme case, didn't Detroit know that they were engineering and releasing poor products for decades? They eventually did more R&D--among other things--and improved their products, but what does that change or mean for the people who bought the poorly engineered products? Zip. Should they be less dissatisfied since the products were eventually improved? Of course not.

And, your LCI example isn't applicable here. That is a general 3-series system upgrade that had a development cycle of more than just a model year. It turned out to be a model year for the M3 since M3s are not in cycle with the rest of the 3-series. How long has the Dinan spring product been around? Less than a year I think. If you start messing with the features of a newly released product, that is not a good sign. If BMW modified its LCI design within a year of its release, by all means, I'd raise questions around the quality of its engineering as well.

Finally, there is the mystery around the rear bumpstops. See quote from one of Greg's earlier posts in this thread:



A key product feature had been advertised, and then removed within weeks of the release of the product. What does that say about the development process behind all this? Are they randomly trying things to see what works? More importantly, are they doing that after the product is released? I am not saying they are or are not doing trial and error engineering as I have no way of knowing for sure, but I am raising the question because, when I consider this rear bumpstop issue with the recent rear spring pocket addition, this product seems "in flux" to me.

As folks on this forum know, I have been a supporter of Dinan products. I have no Dinan bashing agenda from a product perspective (their failure to make rebate payments is a separete issue). However, what is going on with the features of this particular product makes me question the rigor of their development process.

rldzhao wrote

Lucid, I agree that it is weird that Dinan would modify (a relatively straightforward kit) within a year of release. What I am saying is that it is not uncommon even for a big companies that have formal, ISO-approved design processes to update/improve their products even after a relatively short amount of time. Think of V1 V2 V3... of softwares... don't they come out in a short time? Humans are not perfect.

Like I said, if this is a safety issue, Dinan should of course replace these components. However, if it is merely an improvement that adds value to the kit, there is nothing wrong with that. The V1 kit fulfilled all features that were advertised.

I think the best way to understand this is to ask Steve Dinan why the spacer was added. There is no need to speculate.

GregW / Oregon wrote

Agreed. I would like to know if other changes, like to the spring spec, led to this. I am anxious to hear what AMPowerJ finds out.

lucid wrote

Yes, it is possible that the spring specs were modified.

isugoo wrote

Somebody from Sedan V1 kit owners, please measure center cap to fender line please. I did my Sedan V2 kit. Let's really compare.


Center of the center cap - fender line: 13.5" (stock 19).
I can put 1 finger (I have skinny finger btw) on the rear fender gap and 2 fingers on the front fender gap.

isugoo wrote

Somebody from Sedan V1 kit owners, please measure center cap to fender line please. I did my Sedan V2 kit. Let's really compare.


Center of the center cap - fender line: 13.5" (stock 19).
I can put 1 finger (I have skinny finger btw) on the rear fender gap and 2 fingers on the front fender gap.

AMPowerJ wrote

Sedan V1 kit measurements: (less than 1/2 tank of gas with stock 19s)

Front: 14 1/8 inch
Rear: 13 3/16 inch

Seems like the V1 is a bit lower in the back by about 1/4 of an inch at least in my case.

isugoo wrote

Based on how they packaged suspension kit in the box, I think really "only" differences between sedan kit and coupe kit must be the spring pockets and spacers which were in the small sealed box inside of the big shipping box along with rest of the parts (front/rear springs, guide support, bump stops, washers).