Mine did it the other day after just being off for several hours, that said, it wasn't anywhere near as loud.
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10-24-2025LAST POST
Normal. 150k miles almost and it's done it for the last 11 years I've owned the vehicle.
douglee25 wroteYeah . Same here , it doesn't sound healthy and sometimes it's terrible..Normal. 150k miles almost and it's done it for the last 11 years I've owned the vehicle.
///M Power-Belgium wroteFor me it's only a 1 second click while it builds oil pressure. After that it's gone.Yeah . Same here , it doesn't sound healthy and sometimes it's terrible..
douglee25 wroteI get a double 'clack' about 4-5 seconds after I start it....For me it's only a 1 second click while it builds oil pressure. After that it's gone.
Assimilator1 wroteKalashnikov (!)I get a double 'clack' about 4-5 seconds after I start it....
Just an update; data point. Been daily driving my E92 M3 for a couple of months now because the motor in my f90 M5 is toast. With daily driving, I never hear this noise.
Yea funny you mention that, I'm dailying my M3 atm because my 330d has got a cracked wheel (cracked on fitting a tyre! wtf??), since then, not heard the Kalashnikov noise! 
Singletrack wroteJust an update; data point. Been daily driving my E92 M3 for a couple of months now because the motor in my f90 M5 is toast. With daily driving, I never hear this noise.
Assimilator1 wroteAs mentioned several times in this thread :Yea funny you mention that, I'm dailying my M3 atm because my 330d has got a cracked wheel (cracked on fitting a tyre! wtf??), since then, not heard the Kalashnikov noise!
Daily driving and you won't get the S65 Kalashnikov noise.
This means I get it every time ...
Yea, and normally I don't daily it.
But the thing is, mine didn't used to do it when I wasn't dailying it, weird!
PS Lol @ Kalashnikov
But the thing is, mine didn't used to do it when I wasn't dailying it, weird!
PS Lol @ Kalashnikov
Assimilator1 wroteThat sucks. That happened to me with my wife's GT53...the guys in question were hacks.Yea funny you mention that, I'm dailying my M3 atm because my 330d has got a cracked wheel (cracked on fitting a tyre! wtf??), since then, not heard the Kalashnikov noise!
Also possible the wheel had a "dry" crack that didn't leak from a pothole, but once put under stress for mounting, it let go.
Assimilator1 wroteSame...But the thing is, mine didn't used to do it when I wasn't dailying it, weird!
I could go 3 weeks without driving it previously when it was "younger" and no issue.
Surprised no one has definitively figured out what is going on here.
Join me down a rabbit hole.
Couple of potential issues from an internet mechanic/idiot. This is from the "Aftersales Training Product Information. E92 M3 Complete vehicle".
First excerpt:
" The VANOS oil pressure is supplied by the engine’s main oil pump. The VANOS oil flow is controlled by one multiway valve for each camshaft. These VANOS multiway valves are controlled by the MSS60 and are directly installed in the cylinder head"
Second:
"At zero pressure, a locking pin (2) also holds the VANOS unit in the normal position or engine start position." This locking pin has a spring that pushes it into place.
So in other words, if these solenoids are bad, then the VANOS unit may not have the correct oil pressure at startup, so perhaps the PIN is not engaged and the vanos unit is not in the correct "engine start position". Perhaps that is why we get the clanks?
Or, it is also possible that the spring that drives the locking pin might become warn out over time. So perhaps, as the car sits, the spring gives up and the pin slips out of position, and then the vanos is not in the correct "engine start position" and you get the clanks.
It also seems consistent that this would be vanos related since there are typically two clanks. Although whether it is the solenoid, or the springs/pin, they may not fail at the same time, so some people might get one clank and others two. More speculation of course.
Would be nice to get an engine builder and/or tuner and/or bmw engineer and/or bmw tech in here to tell me if I am crazy.
Here's what sucks. 11367843117 is $368 usd and 11367843118 is $520usd. You need 2 of each.
Worse yet, if it is the spring/pin, then that means fixing it would require new vanos gears and major work on the engine since the pin is integrated into the "VANOS hydraulic motor" as BMW calls it.
We should be able to log VANOS EXHAUST ACTUAL vs VANOS EXHAUST REQUESTED and VANOS INTAKE ACTUAL vs VANOS INTAKE REQUESTED. I believe anyway. I know this is something people do on the N54 to identify issues with the solenoids that drive vanos on that car. Their solenoids are also far far cheaper and easier to access. If the solenoids are bad, then we should see actual deviating from the requested if graphed over time.
If that looks good, then it is likely something internal to vanos, which is not serviceable and would need to be replaced.
Finally, perhaps this is related to why some motors have cracked vanos plastic covers and others do not. I think everyone would agree that the clanks sound pretty bad. Perhaps over time the shock of these repeated clanks is breaking the plastic vanos covers?
Couple of potential issues from an internet mechanic/idiot. This is from the "Aftersales Training Product Information. E92 M3 Complete vehicle".
First excerpt:
" The VANOS oil pressure is supplied by the engine’s main oil pump. The VANOS oil flow is controlled by one multiway valve for each camshaft. These VANOS multiway valves are controlled by the MSS60 and are directly installed in the cylinder head"
Second:
"At zero pressure, a locking pin (2) also holds the VANOS unit in the normal position or engine start position." This locking pin has a spring that pushes it into place.
So in other words, if these solenoids are bad, then the VANOS unit may not have the correct oil pressure at startup, so perhaps the PIN is not engaged and the vanos unit is not in the correct "engine start position". Perhaps that is why we get the clanks?
Or, it is also possible that the spring that drives the locking pin might become warn out over time. So perhaps, as the car sits, the spring gives up and the pin slips out of position, and then the vanos is not in the correct "engine start position" and you get the clanks.
It also seems consistent that this would be vanos related since there are typically two clanks. Although whether it is the solenoid, or the springs/pin, they may not fail at the same time, so some people might get one clank and others two. More speculation of course.
Would be nice to get an engine builder and/or tuner and/or bmw engineer and/or bmw tech in here to tell me if I am crazy.
Here's what sucks. 11367843117 is $368 usd and 11367843118 is $520usd. You need 2 of each.
Worse yet, if it is the spring/pin, then that means fixing it would require new vanos gears and major work on the engine since the pin is integrated into the "VANOS hydraulic motor" as BMW calls it.
We should be able to log VANOS EXHAUST ACTUAL vs VANOS EXHAUST REQUESTED and VANOS INTAKE ACTUAL vs VANOS INTAKE REQUESTED. I believe anyway. I know this is something people do on the N54 to identify issues with the solenoids that drive vanos on that car. Their solenoids are also far far cheaper and easier to access. If the solenoids are bad, then we should see actual deviating from the requested if graphed over time.
If that looks good, then it is likely something internal to vanos, which is not serviceable and would need to be replaced.
Finally, perhaps this is related to why some motors have cracked vanos plastic covers and others do not. I think everyone would agree that the clanks sound pretty bad. Perhaps over time the shock of these repeated clanks is breaking the plastic vanos covers?
Also - changing the vanos exhaust gears seems to have fixed it for CHE///MIST3:
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=22436853&postcount=533
Likewise, molen586 asks a good question here related to identifying vanos position at a given pressure in ISTA. I have no idea...
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=26501997&postcount=542
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=22436853&postcount=533
Likewise, molen586 asks a good question here related to identifying vanos position at a given pressure in ISTA. I have no idea...
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=26501997&postcount=542
Singletrack wroteI have already posted this in this thread . It was a BMW-PUMA S65 case...Also - changing the vanos exhaust gears seems to have fixed it for CHE///MIST3:
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=22436853&postcount=533
Likewise, molen586 asks a good question here related to identifying vanos position at a given pressure in ISTA. I have no idea...
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=26501997&postcount=542
Thanks!! Will check out what you posted later today. Hard to keep up - my f90 motor is blown and things keep failing on s65 also. Starting to wear me down. I enjoy these cars, but don't have unlimited time. Again, appreciate it.
///M Power-Belgium wroteOk took a quick look over breakfast because this is driving me nuts. That's a nightmare...looking like roughly 2k USD in parts per side plus requirement for tons of special tools. Probably a 6-8k job all in I'm guessing without taking a closer look. Retorquing the central screws that hold the gear in is an awful process. M539 goes through it on his youtube channel. Is he on here by chance? Would also probably make sense to switch the Evolve gear covers at the same time and ditch the plastic.I have already posted this in this thread . It was a BMW-PUMA S65 case...
Do you actually know what fails *in* the gear? Doesn't really matter, but I'm just curious if it is actually the spring holding the pin or if it something else?
I think my oil bypass in the oil filter housing has failed also, so looking at replacing that and everything on the front of the engine too "while I'm in there" - belts, pulleys, etc. This is going to get expensive. I'm lucky at cards too.
Sure does seem that modern BMW motors work perfectly for around 60k miles and then basically start to fall apart. Is what it is I guess. Not sure I had/have the proper expectation on what it will take to maintain these cars long term. I might not be as annoyed if I hadn't already replaced my valve covers just a couple of years ago. Now have to duplicate all that labor again to fix this.
Singletrack wroteThe S65 PUMA case was posted in 2012 , and I stored the PUMA pic in 2012 .Ok took a quick look over breakfast because this is driving me nuts. That's a nightmare...looking like roughly 2k USD in parts per side plus requirement for tons of special tools. Probably a 6-8k job all in I'm guessing without taking a closer look. Retorquing the central screws that hold the gear in is an awful process. M539 goes through it on his youtube channel. Is he on here by chance? Would also probably make sense to switch the Evolve gear covers at the same time and ditch the plastic.
Do you actually know what fails *in* the gear? Doesn't really matter, but I'm just curious if it is actually the spring holding the pin or if it something else?
I think my oil bypass in the oil filter housing has failed also, so looking at replacing that and everything on the front of the engine too "while I'm in there" - belts, pulleys, etc. This is going to get expensive. I'm lucky at cards too.
Sure does seem that modern BMW motors work perfectly for around 60k miles and then basically start to fall apart. Is what it is I guess. Not sure I had/have the proper expectation on what it will take to maintain these cars long term. I might not be as annoyed if I hadn't already replaced my valve covers just a couple of years ago. Now have to duplicate all that labor again to fix this.
So , that's 13 years ago and I already hear the noise for 13 years as many S65 owers hear the noise for a very long time .
All I know is : The PUMA case fixed the owners S65 rattle noise by replacing the S65 Vanos-Gears under BMW warranty.
Best thing to do is just drive the car . I mean like twice a week .
In the summer I drive my car more and I won't hear the rattle noise.
I'm pretty sure , the rattle noise won't hurt our S65.
But I do agree , sometimes the S65 rattle noise is just frightening...
Appreciate your info as always. I have an engineering contact at BMW. I'm going to reach out off the record and will report back.
Singletrack wroteNot sure what you mean by 'hacks', cowboys?That sucks. That happened to me with my wife's GT53...the guys in question were hacks.
Also possible the wheel had a "dry" crack that didn't leak from a pothole, but once put under stress for mounting, it let go.
Anyway, I fitted the tyres myself as I'm a mechanic, not possible to damage the wheel this badly with our (or any?) tyre removal machine.
I think you're 2nd point is more likely, although it's odd that it's cracked in the middle of the wheel, parallel to the rims. It is just very slightly flattened by the crack. See this photo, crack is on the lower side of the yellow crayon mark.
Will be interesting to see what your BMW guy says, funnily enough I worked at BMW for a year, completely forgot to ask them about this!
Although I'm still in contact with a tecj and senior tech from there....
Assimilator1 wroteHacks == unskilled monkeys with crowbars ; ) Usually there is a guy that just does wheels/tires there. He wasn't there that day and the guy that did it was exasperated and upset that I had brought him the wheels. I figured he got violent with them based on his demeanor when I picked up the car. But I agree - I think the second scenario is more likely also.Not sure what you mean by 'hacks', cowboys?
Anyway, I fitted the tyres myself as I'm a mechanic, not possible to damage the wheel this badly with our (or any?) tyre removal machine.
I think you're 2nd point is more likely, although it's odd that it's cracked in the middle of the wheel, parallel to the rims. It is just very slightly flattened by the crack. See this photo, crack is on the lower side of the yellow crayon mark.
Will be interesting to see what your BMW guy says, funnily enough I worked at BMW for a year, completely forgot to ask them about this!
Although I'm still in contact with a tecj and senior tech from there....
Copy. Yah this is an engineer at BMW AG. Email sent, probably 2-3 days before I hear back.
I also checked with my local independent BMW master tech and he had not heard of the issue; but he works on all kinds of BMWs and does not specifically specialize in the S65, although he works on them pretty frequently.
Singletrack wroteAppreciate your info as always. I have an engineering contact at BMW. I'm going to reach out off the record and will report back.
Assimilator1 wroteNot sure what you mean by 'hacks', cowboys?
Anyway, I fitted the tyres myself as I'm a mechanic, not possible to damage the wheel this badly with our (or any?) tyre removal machine.
I think you're 2nd point is more likely, although it's odd that it's cracked in the middle of the wheel, parallel to the rims. It is just very slightly flattened by the crack. See this photo, crack is on the lower side of the yellow crayon mark.
Will be interesting to see what your BMW guy says, funnily enough I worked at BMW for a year, completely forgot to ask them about this!
Although I'm still in contact with a tecj and senior tech from there....
Singletrack wroteHacks == unskilled monkeys with crowbars ; ) Usually there is a guy that just does wheels/tires there. He wasn't there that day and the guy that did it was exasperated and upset that I had brought him the wheels. I figured he got violent with them based on his demeanor when I picked up the car. But I agree - I think the second scenario is more likely also.
Copy. Yah this is an engineer at BMW AG. Email sent, probably 2-3 days before I hear back.
I also checked with my local independent BMW master tech and he had not heard of the issue; but he works on all kinds of BMWs and does not specifically specialize in the S65, although he works on them pretty frequently.
=> https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=32410403&postcount=16
