Metal VANOS Cover Failure - MUST READ!

Reassuring

Zark get a spanner wrote

Reassuring

This must be difficult to install/torque/balance

Zark get a spanner wrote

Reassuring

Just another cash grab "me-too" product.

I see that NRW released their vano bolt in covers recently. Interestingly though, NRW are saying that retiming of the engine is not required for install with the use of cam locks. Is that true? I'm under the understanding that you need to retime the engine regardless.

To do the proper torque procedure you are basically retiming the engine.

MaximusB wrote

I see that NRW released their vano bolt in covers recently. Interestingly though, NRW are saying that retiming of the engine is not required for install with the use of cam locks. Is that true? I'm under the understanding that you need to retime the engine regardless.

It's smoke and mirrors, an attempt to (misleadingly?) reassure customers into a sale. A direct copy of our design, changed just enough to make it appear groundbreaking to unaware facebook users. No different than all the other copies of SLON's original work.

What exactly IS timing the cams? Little to no change might be observed when doing one cam at a time when it's locked with the tool, but if you have the cam timing set (cam blocks) to lock the cams, then you're basically performing most of the timing procedure already. You still have to locate and lock the crankshaft, block the cam(s), tension the chains, and perform the central bolt torque procedure. The only thing left is performing the timing check which takes a few additional rotations of the crank and rechecking with the cam locks. For those not willing to look into the procedure beforehand, his claim sounds advantageous. But in reality it's really no different than what we've always noted is required.

It is highly foolish to go this far into the head and consider any shortcuts. As I've always stated, the S65 is one of the easiest BMW engines to set timing on. You would kick yourself if you had to go back into the top end and redo it because you tried to skip the proper procedure.

drwankel wrote

Lack of data so far as they are too new. We didn't start seeing issues with SLON and the copies until years later.

Could be fine, or they all start blowing up in 2 years. Hell of a gamble to play with a $25K engine.

The only thing I could confidently recommend at this point is the bolt on covers from carbahn or mporium.

Have we had any Slon covers loose that we know were fitted properly to start with?

Also, not mentioned here, but Deansbimmer mentioned it in his vanos cover thread, perhaps the reason some covers have a clip pop off is because the 1st disc (below the spring) is off centre, which could stop a clip going fully home.
This might well explain why some come adrift, well it's likely many of them weren't fully fitted home in the 1st place (even where they could).

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Re the bolt on covers, random thought, there's no danger that the rotational torque could undo these bolts in the long run? After all, these bolts weren't intended to hold a large dish/washer in place....

Reverse thread and 80NM plus 200 degrees coming loose? Unlikely.

Zark get a spanner wrote

Reassuring

Are you saying the 42CRMOV Vanos covers after being subjected to wire-electrode cutting is being re-heat treated and polished? What’s the advantage in re-heat treating the covers? Are you saying wire-electrode cutting relieves the original heat treatment and locks in material stress that needs to be relieved?

Also, this is just another copy of an existing design.

Assimilator1 wrote

Re the bolt on covers, random thought, there's no danger that the rotational torque could undo these bolts in the long run? After all, these bolts weren't intended to hold a large dish/washer in place....

Not even remotely a concern. The bolts are left hand thread and are unaffected by the engine's direction of rotation. The amount of clamping force on these bolts is incredible. Adding a few ounces to an 8 pound cam assembly (not a typo) is not discernible to the mechanism.

So a month ago I finally got around to checking my Slon VANOS covers.

And it's neither great or terrible news, the good news is that none of them have come unclipped. The not so good news is that I noticed that some of the lugs have a very small gap between the lug and the hub, I'd estimate about 0.5mm. I tried pulling the cover off by hand by these gapped lugs and none of them unclipped (I had to use a screwdriver to unclip them). As best as I could see, their didn't appear to be any wear on the lug's teeth.
This is a photo of one of the gapped lugs - https://photos.app.goo.gl/BZKMdPMzLERipx6f6

The engine has done about 5.5k miles on them, and they were fitted 1/4/23 (UK date! ), so about 1yr 9 months ago.

So whilst I'm not immediately concerned, their remains a question, was that tiny gap between some of the lugs and the hub there to start with? I don't know, if they were and they're no bigger, then likely all's fine.
But if they weren't, then maybe the covers are distorting over time, in which case they would need changing in the near future.
Anyway, one of the ones with the biggest gaps (but still tiny at @~0.5mm) is on the oil cap side, so I'm just going to check them through the oil filler hole from time to time.

Anyone else found any problems with their clip on covers recently?

Assimilator1 wrote

This is a photo of one of the 'loose' lugs - https://photos.app.goo.gl/BZKMdPMzLERipx6f6

Is that really a gap? Looks more like a shadow to me. The clip seems to contact the gear at the edge.

Assimilator1 wrote

So a month ago I finally got around to checking my Slon VANOS covers.

And it's neither great or terrible news, the good news is that none of them have come unclipped. The not so good news is that I noticed that some of the lugs have a very small gap between the lug and the hub, I'd estimate about 0.5mm. I tried pulling the cover off by hand by these 'loose' lugs and none of them unclipped (I had to use a screwdriver to unclip them). As best as I could see, their didn't appear to be any wear on the lug's teeth.
This is a photo of one of the 'loose' lugs - https://photos.app.goo.gl/BZKMdPMzLERipx6f6

The engine has done about 5.5k miles on them, and they were fitted 1/4/23 (UK date! ), so about 1yr 9 months ago.

So whilst I'm not immediately concerned, their remains a question, was that tiny gap between some of the lugs and the hub there to start with? I don't know, if they were and they're no bigger, then likely all's fine.
But if they weren't, then maybe the covers are distorting over time, in which case they would need changing in the near future.
Anyway, one of the ones with the biggest gaps (but still tiny at @~0.5mm) is on the oil cap side, so I'm just going to check them through the oil filler hole from time to time.

Anyone else found any problems with their clip on covers recently?

Believe I noticed one or two similar "gap" when I checked mine (both sides). Couldn't find a reasonable answer to how they would wear so concluded it had to be there from the start.

Helmsman wrote

Believe I noticed one or two similar "gap" when I checked mine (both sides). Couldn't find a reasonable answer to how they would wear so concluded it had to be there from the start.

Yea I noticed when installing mine, no way these all could be a perfect fit. I chalked up to stacked tolerances, different cars, different parts, manufacturing tolerances, etc. If ya’ll want piece of mind drive a Camry.

Are you sure it’s short, and not - not seated? It looks like it’s resting in the outer face, not fully seated.

Not sure what you mean by short, but as I said I tried to pull those legs off by hand and they didn't come off, they're definitely located fully home. And when I fitted them I checked each lug with a dentist mirror to make sure they were fully seated. The 'tooth' of the clip is in shade, so it looks smaller than it is.

And Like Ajolives said, atm I think it just seems to be down to tolerances.

Redd wrote

Is that really a gap? Looks more like a shadow to me. The clip seems to contact the gear at the edge.

Definitely a gap, I could (very slightly) push the leg in. If you zoom in you can more clearly see the gap and see that the cover isn't touching the gear, that is a shadow .

Do the factory covers have these tiny gaps?

Good question, I didn't notice.

Perhaps the next person to do one could report back here?

Just thought, rather than visually guessing the gap size, I could've measured the gap with a feeler gauge. Oh well, next time maybe!

To everyone who says turn the crank manually to check, is it for the bottom half of the vanos covers?

I mean, if the timing cover is off and you're installing the vanos covers for the first time, couldn't you just use a small inspection mirror to check the underside to ensure that the clip is actually clipped in?

bsmoov wrote

To everyone who says turn the crank manually to check, is it for the bottom half of the vanos covers?

I mean, if the timing cover is off and you're installing the vanos covers for the first time, couldn't you just use a small inspection mirror to check the underside to ensure that the clip is actually clipped in?

To anyone else with a potential same question, yes, you can check the lower clips with an inspection mirror. I just did and I ensured all of my clips are securely clipped in. I went with the VTT vanos covers due to the clips being close to oem design and the tight fit. I read on fb some people paid more for the evolve covers only to be loose or have play and not getting any customer support. These are good to go!!!

bsmoov wrote

To anyone else with a potential same question, yes, you can check the lower clips with an inspection mirror. I just did and I ensured all of my clips are securely clipped in. I went with the VTT vanos covers due to the clips being close to oem design and the tight fit. I read on fb some people paid more for the evolve covers only to be loose or have play and not getting any customer support. These are good to go!!!

Thanks for the top tip! I never heard of them until your post but they look quality and I see ECS and Bimmerworld carry them. Decent price too.

I ordered from them directly and it was the same price as the other vendors who would probably just drop ship anyway.

When you sign up as a new customer, you get a 10% off code which brings the price down further. They’re based in Northern California so I got mine via usps priority mail which took only 1 day to be delivered as I’m in California as well.