Best retrofit for M3 brakes?

andrihallik wrote

Just fitted the G series smaller 4 pot Brembo brakes on e92 m3.
Basically bolt-on, only modifications required are
2mm washer,
cut the dust shields from bottom side 2-3cm,
cut the brake pads from bottom side ~3mm.

I used the 7 series G11 740i 2017 unpainted calipers and painted black. Will but some sticker there aswell.

Thank you for sharing this! Any part number for the calipers? Did it require new brake lines?

Redd wrote

Thank you for sharing this! Any part number for the calipers? Did it require new brake lines?

Right now used the old brake lines that were on the e92. Probably upgrading to braided lines when next brake pad change comes - right now used the same pads that came with the used 7 series calipers, half worn pads for testing.

So far ~5000km the wear on the disc is even - on top side of the disc the lip/wear continues from the same spot that the original e92 m3 pads touched so ~1mm from top. On bottom side where the pad was cut they go over the disc little bit so no lip there anymore. With new pads i can use them as template to get correct size pads.

I used G11 7 series 2017 non m brakes. (not painted calipers)
34116891275
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The M brakes on 7 series are bigger (the two cylinders on front of the caliper have some room). This video is very informative but misses the non painted calipers, exactly the same but not painted.

Anyone using the CCB-Calipers of a Alfa on a E92 M3?

Didn't know there was a difference between the calipers used on the Steel vs. CCB version of that car.

Steel LEFT | CCB RIGHT


Currently have the FreakyParts calipers on-route, so i'm trying the CCB ones.
But if that isn't possible with 18" wheels, i'm switching to Steel calipers.

PCG.DTCH wrote

Anyone using the CCB-Calipers of a Alfa on a E92 M3?

Didn't know there was a difference between the calipers used on the Steel vs. CCB version of that car.

Steel LEFT | CCB RIGHT


Currently have the FreakyParts calipers on-route, so i'm trying the CCB ones.
But if that isn't possible with 18" wheels, i'm switching to Steel calipers.

You mean steel rotors, not steel calipers, correct? What size rotor are you pairing with the Giulia calipers?

CCB calipers tend to be larger (deeper/thicker) to accommodate a pad with a longer radial depth and wider to accommodate the thicker CCB brake rotors. Do you know if there’s a pad available that matches the radial depth of the rotor surface being used and appropriate pad shape and thickness? CCBs tend to have much longer radial depths to help radiate heat. Do you know the piston sizes and have you calculated the piston areas/brake bias of stock vs Guilia calipers?

M3SQRD wrote

You mean steel rotors, not steel calipers, correct? What size rotor are you pairing with the Giulia calipers?

CCB calipers tend to be larger (deeper/thicker) to accommodate a pad with a longer radial depth and wider to accommodate the thicker CCB brake rotors. Do you know if there’s a pad available that matches the radial depth of the rotor surface being used and appropriate pad shape and thickness? CCBs tend to have much longer radial depths to help radiate heat. Do you know the piston sizes and have you calculated the piston areas/brake bias of stock vs Guilia calipers?

Thanks for your Reply,

What i meant was: Using a Alfa caliper, that's used on a Guilia with CCB brakes.
There are some clear differences between the Alfa calipers.

I bought a set, and found out they we're for the CCB-brake system.

Want to pair them with 360mm disks (OEM) because of my 18" E88's.
But i don't think they're going to work.

Sourcing a different set isn't that hard over here (Europe). So i think i'm going that route.

PCG.DTCH wrote

Thanks for your Reply,

What i meant was: Using a Alfa caliper, that's used on a Guilia with CCB brakes.
There are some clear differences between the Alfa calipers.

I bought a set, and found out they we're for the CCB-brake system.

Want to pair them with 360mm disks (OEM) because of my 18" E88's.
But i don't think they're going to work.

Sourcing a different set isn't that hard over here (Europe). So i think i'm going that route.

With it being a caliper from a CCB setup, it’ll be tough to find pads that work with steel rotors. Also, getting the correct radial depth for a pad to cover the OR and IR of the brake rotor. At a minimum you’d probably have to grind the bottom of the pad to have the correct depth and IR.

I believe the Essex/AP Racing radi-cal 5000R 372 mm F and 365 mm R rotors fit in E88’s.

Good luck with your retrofit!

andrihallik wrote

Right now used the old brake lines that were on the e92. Probably upgrading to braided lines when next brake pad change comes - right now used the same pads that came with the used 7 series calipers, half worn pads for testing.

So far ~400km the wear on the disc is even - on top side of the disc the lip/wear continues from the same spot that the original e92 m3 pads touched so ~1mm from top. On bottom side where the pad was cut they go over the disc little bit so no lip there anymore. With new pads i can use them as template to get correct size pads.

I used G11 7 series 2017 non m brakes. (not painted calipers)
34116891275
34116891276
The M brakes on 7 series are bigger (the two cylinders on front of the caliper have some room). This video is very informative but misses the non painted calipers, exactly the same but not painted.

Hey man I see you are pretty informed regarding these retrofitted calipers coming off a 740i.

I found some local calipers that came off a 2018 X3 that have the exact same numbers on the back of the caliper as the unpainted 740i calipers. I was wondering if you knew if they were the same caliper?

The blue painted set is from the 2018 X3
And the unpainted set is from 2018 740i

Thank you in advance.

Best brake retrofit are 2NH calipers (they have titanium pistons) with CCB or Steel discs.
CCB for 19wheels
Steel discs 400mm for 19 and 380x36 for 18's.

chrislacedup wrote

Hey man I see you are pretty informed regarding these retrofitted calipers coming off a 740i.

I found some local calipers that came off a 2018 X3 that have the exact same numbers on the back of the caliper as the unpainted 740i calipers. I was wondering if you knew if they were the same caliper?

The blue painted set is from the 2018 X3
And the unpainted set is from 2018 740i

Thank you in advance.

Seems to be same ones yes. Just make sure that the pot circles at the front dont have any space in front of them. If there is some space they are larger and wont fit stock discs.

Also the non painted ones might have some oxidation and might be hard to get pins out. I had to split open one of the calipers to get one stubborn pin out.

Painted ones are probably easier to remove.

andrihallik wrote

Seems to be same ones yes. Just make sure that the pot circles at the front dont have any space in front of them. If there is some space they are larger and wont fit stock discs.

Also the non painted ones might have some oxidation and might be hard to get pins out. I had to split open one of the calipers to get one stubborn pin out.

Painted ones are probably easier to remove.

As you’re aware, there’s definitely pad overhang on the rotor IR. Good thing the M rotors have the steel pins connecting the rotor to the had otherwise you have contact with a conventional rotor with the hat at the rotor IR.

M3SQRD wrote

As you’re aware, there’s definitely pad overhang on the rotor IR. Good thing the M rotors have the steel pins connecting the rotor to the had otherwise you have contact with a conventional rotor with the hat at the rotor IR.

Yes will use them as template with the new pads, probably cant find the perfect size pad so going to cut the new ones more precisely. So far after ~2000 km everything is still perfect. Did the bleeding through INPA and brake pedal is stiffy once again. Have a track day planned in 10 days, lets see how they actually compare to original ones and if they are any good

andrihallik wrote

Yes will use them as template with the new pads, probably cant find the perfect size pad so going to cut the new ones more precisely. So far after ~2000 km everything is still perfect. Did the bleeding through INPA and brake pedal is stiffy once again. Have a track day planned in 10 days, lets see how they actually compare to original ones and if they are any good

The oem brakes’ limiting factor is the size of the rotors and their inability to absorb the heat energy from continuous lapping. Two things all high-end aftermarket performance brake kits have are the ability to absorb more brake energy due to higher mass and to shed heat energy faster due to higher more unobstructed vane count than the design of oem brake rotors. On f8x blue caliper iron brake rotors use designs with less obstructed vane input area compared to oem e9x M rotors. The limiting factor in the e9x M isn’t the one-piston floating calipers, it’s the rotor design.

Can anyone indentify these rotors and hats ? This BBK was on the car prior to me taking over ownership. I had thought they were AP rotors as they are J Hook and I have ran them on another car in the past.Genuine AP 9660 caliper and I am running the Ferodo 18mm pads. I am getting ready to purchase a set of rings to have on the side when the current ones crack. My research shows other 3rd parties now make the J hook style. Upon inspection I see “BM-Tech 380x32” on the ring. I can’t make out what the rotor hat says. I had those refinished over the winter but took a pic when I first got the car.

I reached out to Essex and they confirmed this is not their kit. The Essex kit uses 372x34mm. I need to locate new rotor rings for this setup so any feedback is appreciated.

I’m unaware of any brake rotor manufacturer uses a 380x32 mm front rotor. I’ve never heard of BM TECH and I also can’t make out the logo on the mounting hats. Also, the mounting hats are not using floating bobbins between the hat and rotor. Is the front caliper the CP9660? What’s on the rear? You show two different pics of rotors and hats. The key is figuring out what the logo is on the mounting hat. If this company was smart they’d have used the same fastener size and spacing as Brembo and StopTech 380x32 rotor rings. The lack of floating hardware suggests they are not the same.

LWG wrote

Can anyone indentify these rotors and hats ? This BBK was on the car prior to me taking over ownership. I had thought they were AP rotors as they are J Hook and I have ran them on another car in the past.Genuine AP 9660 caliper and I am running the Ferodo 18mm pads. I am getting ready to purchase a set of rings to have on the side when the current ones crack. My research shows other 3rd parties now make the J hook style. Upon inspection I see “BM-Tech 380x32” on the ring. I can’t make out what the rotor hat says. I had those refinished over the winter but took a pic when I first got the car.

I reached out to Essex and they confirmed this is not their kit. The Essex kit uses 372x34mm. I need to locate new rotor rings for this setup so any feedback is appreciated.

Sorry we (Essex) couldn't help you out on this one. I have no idea where those discs/hats came from. This is something we see a fair amount these days. Unauthorized resellers are buying AP Racing parts abroad and putting together their own 'AP Racing Brake Kits'. Those kits are always less expensive than the ones Essex sells, because the included parts are usually sub-par in material quality, the person designing and building them has no overhead (because they're working out of their mom's basement rather than a professional racing shop), they have no money invested in quality control, etc. Unfortunately, those sellers are rarely ever around after the sale to support the customers who buy them. They are either out of business, have moved on to some other project, are unable to get service parts or spares any longer, or simply have their money and no longer care about the customer. It's a great cautionary tale on why you should always try to buy any parts that require regular service through an authorized channel/distributor. Last year I had something similar happen with a Corvette customer, and I actually shot a video with him on this topic (below).

Regardless, I know none of the above helps you LWG, and I know you didn't intentionally try to go around Essex since you bought the car with the brakes already installed. I'm just trying to warn others from avoiding this path if at all possible. It usually ends up costing them a lot of time, frustration, and money. I'm sorry you're stuck.

nah dude wrote

Hey so I had some folks reach out and did some research about these jqwerks/signaturewerks 17z/18z big brake kits. I knew the rotors were from alibaba, but just learned the calipers are also knock offs too. The OEM porsche/VW calipers all have mounting brackets integrated, and these BBK retrofits do not. Apparently it's very common to counterfeit these calipers in this way to adapt them to other platforms with the idea that you're running a porsche product.

If you go on ebay and look at the OEM 17/18z calipers you can see they all have the mounting bracket integrated. Then check out install videos of the sig/jqwerks BBKs, they don't have a mounting bracket integrated but have mounting holes through the ends of the calipers. The OEMs do not mount up this way.

Here is the Signaturewerks "Brembo" BM5 Volkswagen Touareg 4 piston caliper kit. Check out the mounting holes.



Below are photos of OEM VW BM5 4 piston calipers, which you can see has the integrated mounting brakets that the sigwerks kit does not have. Do we really believe they machined off those brackets and drilled holes through the calipers? LOL.



Here's a thread about this that explains more in depth.

https://www.bmw-sg.com/forums/threads/a-guide-on-how-to-identify-fake-brembo.83438/

Don't buy fake brakes.

Very common to machine calipers and then drill them to convert them to radial mound. If you don’t know don’t write nonsense.https://www.goingsuperfast.com/Brake.html

I would not trust any 'refurbished' Brembo caliper to be authentic unless I saw the pre-refurbed caliper myself. Brembo 17/18Z and GT4/GT6 are the most highly knocked-off calipers out there. The copies are also very very good these days, with all the embossed/debossed logos in the right place. The only way to really tell authentic from fake is the bracket (it has to have Brembo part numbers if it's a real Brembo kit) or the piston dust seals (should have Brembo part numbers). So it's very very difficult to tell just from pics.

That said, several M owners I know - including myself - have started using China rotors with good results. I have a couple friends who drove their E60 M5 and F82 M4 really hard on track with China rotors with zero issues. Below are my Dicase rotors after a 55 min track session. Again no issues.

If you do plan to use China rotors, insist only on Dicase brand. Quality can vary a lot between manufacturers and Dicase is considered to be the top China brand for brakes as they are also an OEM brake component manufacturer.

Redd wrote

If you do plan to use China rotors, insist only on Dicase brand. Quality can vary a lot between manufacturers and Dicase is considered to be the top China brand for brakes as they are also an OEM brake component manufacturer.

Any chance you have a pic of the other side of the rotor?

tdott wrote

Any chance you have a pic of the other side of the rotor?

I don't, but I did eyeball it and it looks the same. I do run GT3 brake ducts tho.

I just installed a front Alcon kit from Paragon, and got to say im very impressed. Pedal feel is definitely better. I've run a few canyon runs with it so far (no track days) but feels very solid. For the price of the kit, I don't know why people would bother with the unmatched Porsche conversions....

KuRT.exe wrote

I don't know why people would bother with the unmatched Porsche conversions....

part of the hobby...

For those using the Alfa Romeo rear kit for the e92 m3, does anyone have a better pad option than the stock Alfa pad?

The unused sweep area on the disc is pretty large.

I am using aftermarket rear discs, but even with the stock OEM disc the unswept unused disc area is quite large.