Official S65 Rod Bearing Condition Example Thread

Helmsman wrote

I agee with Scharbag on his comments regarding (possible) non existing measurement. However worth keeping in mind that ACL's quote a 0.008mm shell production tolerance - and folks that have measured apparently end up with an even tigher span.
Measured and pair shells obviously still very elegant and clearly tightening the clearance spec, but we're no talking night and day and the "risk" of getting the maximun 0.016mm clearance difference must be negligible.
The BE folks quote a wider production tolerance of I believe 0.013mm (due to the coating) hence increased reason to go through the process.

to tell the truth, it is very difficult for me to understand))
BE provides bearings with such a tolerance and then the dealer pairs them (up and down)?
** the "risk" is that you can get the wrong tolerance if the dealer did his job irresponsibly??
am I right?

deansbimmer wrote

That's not really the problem. There's no problem with shell variation within each ACL pack. The problem is that in each ACL kit (and King/etc) there are two packs. This is where the variation will creep in. To produce a bearing set providing the correct bore diameter they combine a "thin" pack of shells with a "fat" pack to create the set. This has been the case with every one of the hundreds of ACL sets I've meaured.

As I've mentioned before...I have measured packs of ACL HX shells that measure thicker than some H shells from other sets. You MUST measure when mixing sets if you presume to create an "extra clearance" set. A blindly "mixed" set isn't good enough and can create problems.

It has also been brought up previously that if the ACL heat shrunk packs have not been opened, and there are no visible measuring marks from a seller measuring them and re-packaging them as mixed/extra clearance/etc sets, then they have not been properly prepared. Certain vendors have already been caught over dishonest representations. Caveat Emptor.

We have been mixing and measuring ACL sets for years now and supplement our BE inventory when their supply wanes.

Ah, right, my bad Deansbimmer. My quick comment was general with regards to a standard set of shells (HX or H), not with regards to mixing the shells in which case I see your point and appreciate your valuable knowledge.

stefan_e36 wrote

to tell the truth, it is very difficult for me to understand))
BE provides bearings with such a tolerance and then the dealer pairs them (up and down)?
** the "risk" is that you can get the wrong tolerance if the dealer did his job irresponsibly??
am I right?

BE "bin" (arranging the shells according to measured size, some are a little thicker, some are a little thinner)) and "pair them" (putting together two and two that combined result in a specific total thickness). All the dealer have to do is to not mix them up but to mount the pairs as they come delivered.

This video was off to me. I respect Evolve and their products but don't agree with their position that this is a 'serviceable item' and putting OE bearings back in.

Helmsman wrote

BE "bin" (arranging the shells according to measured size, some are a little thicker, some are a little thinner)) and "pair them" (putting together two and two that combined result in a specific total thickness). All the dealer have to do is to not mix them up but to mount the pairs as they come delivered.

Ok, I understand, thanks.
Have already done the order at this shop - https://shop.redline360.com/products/be-bearings-bmw-m3-s65-v8-e90-e92-e93-rod-bearings-08-13-sp1527hk-std-s65?variant=17000152072305
Will be waiting for....

I decided not to risk, thanks guys for the information! After replacement I'll give you detailed report. It'll be such a big service including service DCT + replacement bearings.

slcook54 wrote

This video was off to me. I respect Evolve and their products but don't agree with their position that this is a 'serviceable item' and putting OE bearings back in.

Yikes... It would be like replacing a bad IMS bearing with another bad IMS bearing...

stefan_e36 wrote

Ok, I understand, thanks.
Have already done the order at this shop - https://shop.redline360.com/products/be-bearings-bmw-m3-s65-v8-e90-e92-e93-rod-bearings-08-13-sp1527hk-std-s65?variant=17000152072305
Will be waiting for....

I decided not to risk, thanks guys for the information! After replacement I'll give you detailed report. It'll be such a big service including service DCT + replacement bearings.

Best of luck to you, but be aware Redline is out of stock on BE just like everyone else. It’s been since June without stock and no real data on when it will be stocked, they just keep moving the date back every time the date gets close to their ETA. It’s been this way for months now.

TX wrote

Best of luck to you, but be aware Redline is out of stock on BE just like everyone else. It’s been since June without stock and no real data on when it will be stocked, they just keep moving the date back every time the date gets close to their ETA. It’s been this way for months now.

Redline had already informed me about this situation
it's not good, but I'm ready to wait to February '21 to receive and then to replace bearings, hope to this time BE will be stocked)

So are BE bearing unavailable at all during this time? Is there an estimated time when they will be readily available again?

Looking to do rod bearing over the winter here on my track car and trying to decide what to go with. BE was likely the first choice, but if they aren't available then I need to figure out which brand to go with instead..

100,486mi - 09'

slcook54 wrote

This video was off to me. I respect Evolve and their products but don't agree with their position that this is a 'serviceable item' and putting OE bearings back in.

Thought the same thing when I saw this

My 2009 E90 with 66k miles



My 2013 E92 wth 46k miles

stefan_e36 wrote

to tell the truth, it is very difficult for me to understand))
BE provides bearings with such a tolerance and then the dealer pairs them (up and down)?
** the "risk" is that you can get the wrong tolerance if the dealer did his job irresponsibly??
am I right?

You're getting confused between ACL and BE bearings, BE bearings are already hand measured to get the ideal tolerance as per (bearing manufacturers) industry norms (and ignoring BMWs potentially too tight clearances).
ACL std shells are aimed at achieving the std BMW nominal clearance (which, if you're unlucky is too tight). That said, I have seen anecdotal reports (offhand I recall 1 set measured by BE, a couple of dozen or so installed by Redish motors in the UK), they end up being bigger clearances than BMW shells.
ACH HX shells have extra clearance, but it is considered a little too much, even going by high performance engine industry norms.
So hence mixing and measuring the std and the HX ACL shells to achieve the ideal clearances.

911r
Have you got a better photo than that? That one's a bit blurry

TX and Scharbag
Fair point, and I did ask Abdul if he could record measurements, which he agreed too, but of course you could argue he made them up unless he shows a video of it being done, or photos?
What would convince you guys it was done legitimately? [edit] I guess this would be your answer..

Scharbag wrote

Exactly.
And you need hundreds of shells to create a proper distribution of sizes to allow for proper selection. It would be better to have thousands of shells. And you better be willing to throw a few shells away.

What measuring tools are being used?
What environment are the measurements being taken in? (temperature matters)
What is the target clearance? (this should be clearly published)
IIRC, any method that measures shell thickness will leave a visible mark on the shell. Is this present with Mpower shells?

Given the past (mis)information posted about Mpower here, it would be great if he could clarify his process etc. Until he does this, than I will assume he is simply re-selling factory sealed ACL shells.

Cheers,

Anyway, it's mute atm, as apparently Abdul's younger brother (22yrs old) died recently . So Abdul won't be about for a bit.

deansbimmer
Would you be willing to sell me a set of mixed and measured ACL shells to me? I'm in the UK. If you are, how much would that be?
And do you sell ARP 2000 bolts? (not bothered if their 'BE' ones or not).

Assimilator1 wrote

You're getting confused between ACL and BE bearings, BE bearings are already hand measured to get the ideal tolerance as per (bearing manufacturers) industry norms (and ignoring BMWs potentially too tight clearances).
ACL std shells are aimed at achieving the std BMW nominal clearance (which, if you're unlucky it too tight). That said, I have seen anecdotal reports (offhand I recall 1 set measured by BE, a couple of dozen or so installed by Redish motors in the UK), they end up being bigger clearances than BMW.
ACH HX shells have extra clearance, but it is considered a little too much, even going by high performance engine industry norms.
So hence mixing and measuring the std and the HX ACL shells to achieve the ideal clearances.

you are right, at that time, I didn't have a lot of experience, because of this I had already read a lot of topics at this forum))
, and as a result I decided to order the BE ones for my s65.
as for me the ACL seams to be not optimal decision with its risk to be in OEM nominal clearance, as you said above.

but, nevertheless, in Ukraine BE is not popular bearings for s65/s85 such as in USA, almost everyone change OEM for OEM.

** sorry for my English, its not perfect)

tsk94 wrote

So are BE bearing unavailable at all during this time? Is there an estimated time when they will be readily available again?

+ BE is unavailable, I have received the information that my pre-order is now in and processing....
I'm still waiting for the additional info ))

Assimilator1 wrote

Deansbimmer
Would you be willing to sell me a set of mixed and measured ACL shells to me? I'm in the UK. If you are, how much would that be?
And do you sell ARP 2000 bolts? (not bothered if their 'BE' ones or not).

Still haven't replaced the friggin shells?? They'll blow up before you get there mate...

Remember this page from the tech training book? In particular the grey cast iron inlays and oil flow narrative...

Helmsman wrote

Still haven't replaced the friggin shells?? They'll blow up before you get there mate...

Nope, not being driving it as result, so it won't blow up, but not having any fun with it either . Decided to change them back in February, was trying to sort out shells and bolts with M-power, but he was slow to respond and then lockdown happened which put everything on hold. I was furloughed from end or March to early August, during which I wasn't allowed to work on my cars (boss even got twitchy about me washing my 330d! ). I was busy with other things afterwards through August and September (dead washing machine, mates car needed fixing etc), and then m-power fell silent end of september as he's had a family death .
I'm hoping deansbimmer can help.......

330indy wrote

Remember this page from the tech training book? In particular the grey cast iron inlays and oil flow narrative...

you mean this two mutually exclusive statements in training book??

1. "These also limit crankshaft bearings clearances....

2. ..... have a positive effect to the oil flow rate"

as a result - worn out bearings((

... " limit crankshaft bearing clearances over a greater temp range.... "
As a positive to oil flow... ?
BMW knows something we don't

2012 E92 M3: 6MT. Mileage 94,XXX

These things are damn hard to photograph well...

2012 LCI E92 M3 with 107K miles.

After all the scaremongering on here and having passed 100K miles I figured I should replace these. Evidently changing the oil every 7K miles is well worthwhile. £1600 I didn't need to spend, but at least I now have peace of mind.

The worst one is probably from Rod #7, so I've taken a close up of that one. Practically no wear at all.

To be fair I did have an engine seize on me at 33K miles. That car died whilst I was driving the salesman to pick up another car as it was on my way home. I'd only had it for 10 minutes, and had just got it warmed up, when I experienced what one might call "heavy engine braking" changing into 3rd gear at 8000rpm, coasting to a stop in a convenient lay-by about 100 yards short of where I was dropping him off. Fortunately my mechanic was nearby test driving a very nice, somewhat older, BMW he'd just serviced and popped by to advise me to call recovery! You can see the poor salesman in the photo below, slowly turning pale before giving me back my money. Picked up the current car, again with 33K miles on it, three days later, so it all turned out OK!

Steve

SteveEvans wrote

These things are damn hard to photograph well...

2012 LCI E92 M3 with 107K miles.

After all the scaremongering on here and having passed 100K miles I figured I should replace these. Evidently changing the oil every 7K miles is well worthwhile. £1600 I didn't need to spend, but at least I now have peace of mind.

The worst one is probably from Rod #7, so I've taken a close up of that one. Practically no wear at all.


Steve

Is that detonation on the last 3? Would that play into the heavier wear there?