Official S65 Rod Bearing Condition Example Thread

Move Over wrote

Probably will get some crap for this but i bought a car recently that had 165,000 miles on it, the OEM bearings were changed at 162k miles, but they were changed with OEM new style bearings. I wasn't comfortable with that so i DIY'd again today with ACL bearings and ARP bolts. Easy and cheap as i have a lift in the garage and experience doing them 4 hours start to finish. Here's the bearings that came out with just over 3k miles. Figured I'd share

Smart move! Not much to say to someone that can turn this around in 4 hrs

DRLane wrote

Move Over wrote

Probably will get some crap for this but i bought a car recently that had 165,000 miles on it, the OEM bearings were changed at 162k miles, but they were changed with OEM new style bearings. I wasn't comfortable with that so i DIY'd again today with ACL bearings and ARP bolts. Easy and cheap as i have a lift in the garage and experience doing them 4 hours start to finish. Here's the bearings that came out with just over 3k miles. Figured I'd share

Smart move! Not much to say to someone that can turn this around in 4 hrs

It's not too bad. Car was already up on the lift doing brakes and suspension so i figured what they hey I'll knock it out while it's up.

My first time doing it took me a full day and i removed the whole subframe! This go around we just hung it and went much quicker without messing with the power steering and stuff.

Move Over wrote

Probably will get some crap for this but i bought a car recently that had 165,000 miles on it, the OEM bearings were changed at 162k miles, but they were changed with OEM new style bearings. I wasn't comfortable with that so i DIY'd again today with ACL bearings and ARP bolts. Easy and cheap as i have a lift in the garage and experience doing them 4 hours start to finish. Here's the bearings that came out with just over 3k miles. Figured I'd share

Good work mate. Picture isnt very clear, mind taking a few close up and show us what 3k miles shells look like?

I finally finished the rod bearing replacement today. 2011 E90 M3 with 111K miles. I used BE bearings and bolts, and plastigaged all cylinders. Out of curiosity, I also plastigaged one cylinder with the old bearings using the BE/ARP bolts just to see where it fell compared to the new bearings.

As you can see in the photos, cylinders 6 & 7 show the most wear with a little bit of copper peaking through at the edge. Note that even though this is a MY 2011 M3, the original bearings are 088/089 Clevite and not 702/703 Glyco due to the early April 2010 build date.

Btw, the Blackstone numbers for Lead and Copper were 8 and 2 respectively, but the car had been sitting for several months before the oil was drained, and the oil only had about 1000 miles on it, so I don't know how that may have affected the accuracy of the results.

Also, I created this bearing organizer chart from a collection of others that I have seen. if anyone wants a PDF of the chart, let me know.

(upload of second photo keeps failing for me - will try again later)
(update: finally got second photo to upload)

frankc wrote

I finally finished the rod bearing replacement today. 2011 E90 M3 with 111K miles. I used BE bearings and bolts, and plastigaged all cylinders. Out of curiosity, I also plastigaged one cylinder with the old bearings using the BE/ARP bolts just to see where it fell compared to the new bearings.

As you can see in the photos, cylinders 6 & 7 show the most wear with a little bit of copper peaking through at the edge. Note that even though this is a MY 2011 M3, the original bearings are 088/089 Clevite and not 702/703 Glyco due to the early April 2010 build date.

Btw, the Blackstone numbers for Lead and Copper were 8 and 2 respectively, but the car had been sitting for several months before the oil was drained, and the oil only had about 1000 miles on it, so I don't know how that may have affected the accuracy of the results.

Also, I created this bearing organizer chart from a collection of others that I have seen. if anyone wants a PDF of the chart, let me know.

(upload of second photo keeps failing for me - will try again later)

Curious about your plastigage measurement, couldn't see any details in your post mate?

Helmsman wrote

Curious about your plastigage measurement, couldn't see any details in your post mate?

The plastigage numbers ranged from about 0017" to .002". I did the work over several days, and the lowest clearance numbers were taken on a very hot day when it was about 95*F in the garage, so that may have affected the results. Other days it was 10 to 15 degrees cooler.

I don't know if this information is meaningful or of any use, but the plastigage of cylinder #5 with the old bearings came in at .0015". That same cylinder with the new bearings came in at ~.0018".


Btw, I'm still getting the following error when attempting to upload a photo:

www.m3post.com is currently unable to handle this request.

Thinking it might be a cache issue, I tried a different browser - same thing, Tried different photo - same. Anyone else having a problem uploading?

frankc wrote

The plastigage numbers ranged from about 0017" to .002". I did the work over several days, and the lowest clearance numbers were taken on a very hot day when it was about 95*F in the garage, so that may have affected the results. Other days it was 10 to 15 degrees cooler.

I don't know if this information is meaningful or of any use, but the plastigage of cylinder #5 with the old bearings came in at .0015". That same cylinder with the new bearings came in at ~.0018".


Btw, I'm still getting the following error when attempting to upload a photo:

www.m3post.com is currently unable to handle this request.

Thinking it might be a cache issue, I tried a different browser - same thing, Tried different photo - same. Anyone else having a problem uploading?

Cheers Frank. I realize plastigage isn't an exact science but still interesting with the comparison. 0.0015 I believe is what BE measured OEM to so right on there. Their own shells I believe are targeted to 0.0025 so the difference in between seems tight.

Reg the photo upload, it's not as simple as to large, you've noticed the format and max sizes mate?

Thanks

Helmsman wrote

Cheers Frank. I realize plastigage isn't an exact science but still interesting with the comparison. 0.0015 I believe is what BE measured OEM to so right on there. Their own shells I believe are targeted to 0.0025 so the difference in between seems tight.

Reg the photo upload, it's not as simple as to large, you've noticed the format and max sizes mate?

Yes, .0015" is what the OEM bearing clearance is supposed to be. But since I measured .0015 with the amount of wear that can be seen on the #5 bearings in my earlier post, I'm wondering if the clearance was less than this when the bearings were new? Does the fact that the plastigage was used on the bottom shell (at bottom of bearing), which is not nearly as worn as the top shell, make a difference? I know that the bearing wear creates an oval, but if the journal is not centered in the oval when torquing the rod bolts, I don't believe the plastigage is going to move the rod (and certainly not the crank).

Btw, I resized the photo to fewer pixels, and the upload worked - which is strange because the 1st photo was about the same size. Thanks for the suggestion.

Also, I'm attaching a PDF of the bearing chart here if folks would like a copy.

Stanbul_76 wrote

Sorry what do you mean by slightly less open shell? Are you referring to BE ones?

My OEM shells was touched but not badly worn. If my extended (ACL HX) comes out - should I keep the car for another 100 years - untouched I'd assume my shaft and housing is confirmed to be on the right side of tolerances. At this point I probably test VAC out which is a tad more open than OEM and has friction limited on which seems like a nice idea.

Please note: I am not an engine builder hence above is not advice but simply personal opinions.

Bought the car with 123K changed at 126K with ACL bearings from Lang Racing

E92_Emma3 wrote

Bought the car with 123K changed at 126K with ACL bearings from Lang Racing

That's a new way to lay out the bearings, +1 for artwork!

E92_Emma3 wrote

Bought the car with 123K changed at 126K with ACL bearings from Lang Racing

Jeez, is that all shiny copper mate??

E92_Emma3 wrote

Bought the car with 123K changed at 126K with ACL bearings from Lang Racing

oof, those look like they are DONE!

Good work on the swap.

E92_Emma3 wrote

Bought the car with 123K changed at 126K with ACL bearings from Lang Racing

holy crap! those are toast. At least it's even copper and I don't see huge chunks missing. The wear looks strangely even. How did the crank look? Which ACL set did you pick from Lang. His mixed set is not measured FYI just random sets put together from different sorted bins which could contain "thicker" or "thinner" than spec from each original bin so you don't really know what you're getting in the end.

TX wrote

holy crap! those are toast. At least it's even copper and I don't see huge chunks missing. The wear looks strangely even. How did the crank look? Which ACL set did you pick from Lang. His mixed set is not measured FYI just random sets put together from different sorted bins which could contain "thicker" or "thinner" than spec from each original bin so you don't really know what you're getting in the end.

Not sure how the crank looked (got it done at a local shop), but I bought these from Lang https://store.langracing.com/acl-rod-bearings-bmw-e9x-m3-s65/

Just hope they hold up and don't give any issues down the road, but so far so good (knock on wood)

Just got my bearings done - replaced with ACL mixed and ARP bolts. I wasn't really concerned about the bearings, but knew I needed motor mounts - figured might as well do them both at the same time.

2011 E92 M3 6MT
~125k km / 77k miles

Not much service history beyond my ownership, but in the last 10-15k km it's had regular (annual or 6,000km) oil changes with either BMW/Shell or Castrol 10W60. Added 1 can of Ceratec at my first oil change ~110k.

Winter/daily driven since I've owned it. That would be a range of -40° to +40°C (-40° to 104°F). Again not sure how it was driven before my ownership, but from what I gathered from the previous owner it was driven spiritedly on the street. I'm pretty religious about not exceeding 4k RPM until the car is completely warmed up.

In my opinion they're in pretty good shape (relative to others). Shop was also impressed with the (lack of) bearing wear and given the condition of the rest of the parts they figure it's had pretty regular oil changes.

Here's my 76k mi bearings from my recently purchased '08 E92 M3.



So glad to get them done, but DCT seals, TBAs, and rod bearings in 1 year is a tough swallow! Thankfully it should be solid after this.

I ended up going with WPC treated bearings + ARP bolts + motor mounts.

Bought at 28 miles. Changed RBs this weekend at 113K with WPC and ARP 625 bolts. Most of the wear are on the edges on the caps for 7&3 and 8&4.

There's 81 pages on this thread and am too lazy go through and get an analysis. What's the consensus on the wear on the edges of the ones on the caps of 7&3 and 8&4? How come I didn't have wear in the middle of any of the RBs?

da jemster wrote

There's 81 pages on this thread and am too lazy go through and get an analysis. What's the consensus on the wear on the edges of the ones on the caps of 7&3 and 8&4? How come I didn't have wear in the middle of any of the RBs?

Thanks for attaching your oil reports. Here's a guide from Clevite of wear patterns and causes attached.
I can't answer your question, but I'm sure someone such as deansbimmer would have your answers. I'd be interested in knowing the cause as well.

TX wrote

da jemster wrote

There's 81 pages on this thread and am too lazy go through and get an analysis. What's the consensus on the wear on the edges of the ones on the caps of 7&3 and 8&4? How come I didn't have wear in the middle of any of the RBs?

Thanks for attaching your oil reports. Here's a guide from Clevite of wear patterns and causes attached.
I can't answer your question, but I'm sure someone such as deansbimmer would have your answers. I'd be interested in knowing the cause as well.

Being too lazy to research and then asking someone that's incredibly busy to help doesn't bode well.

DRLane wrote

Being too lazy to research and then asking someone that's incredibly busy to help doesn't bode well.

Bode well? To whom? Dean's a great contributor to this forum and a very helpful person! I've PM'd him twice in 2 years, the latest was 3 weeks ago asking about rotating my engine and he's always answered back within 24 hours. But for this question, I wasn't going to ask him. I was hoping some helpful members would chime in with their opinions. On other muti-page threads, someone asks a question that's already been answered, I've returned the favor by repeating an answer them.