E92/E90 M3 vs E86 Z4 M Coupe

Once upon a time I came awfully close to pulling the trigger on a clean, low mileage Interlagos Z4 M Coupe. At the time I had been searching for my stripper slicktop E90M 6MT for nearly three years off and on when it suddenly appeared and I disregarded the Z. (As in the coupe was in for a PPI when the E90 appeared).

As misfortune would have it, a young girl totalled my E90 last August, and I've been heartbroken since. I decided to step away from the fun car game for a little bit to resituate some life items and here I am thinking about another car. Wife drives the Grand Cherokee, I've got a Mini S for each day, and the old Cherokee sits with the occasional run around town. Finalizing a new gig that would include a company car, and I figure if it works out that I'll dump the Mini and insert a new ride for the weekends.

The three options I'm considering are...
LCI E92 DCT / E90 M
E86 M Coupe
(Left field) Another project car like another LSx swap RX-7
(And fourth would be a boat if we're getting to the fine print)

What's your take? Not after the car for rarity and the like. She'll see use and some track time. No intention of selling.

-Tyler

I'd come back to the E9x game.

I'm on my second and just like them a lot. For the money they're almost impossible to beat.

Build quality, power, interior, and style is hard to come by in one package.

The Z4Ms are cool. S54 is a nice motor but no S65. More tossable than an M3 but unless you're going to track it, I'd choose the V8 every time.

LS swapped cares are pretty amazing if done right. Whole different animal but if that's what's calling your name I surely can't stop you.

Only other cars I can think of.... Cayman GTS, GT350, or a C7 Vette. (all come in versions where you can drive with both feet)

I had to be fairly focused driving my Z4M in the roundabouts of Carmel IN
When I first drove the e9x it was immediately comfortable and intuitive. In a word easy.
But the responses were so quick as well.

Z4M was a fun and raw and visceral car.
But after saying goodbye for the M3 I never looked back.

lat77 wrote

I'd come back to the E9x game.

I'm on my second and just like them a lot. For the money they're almost impossible to beat.

Build quality, power, interior, and style is hard to come by in one package.

The Z4Ms are cool. S54 is a nice motor but no S65. More tossable than an M3 but unless you're going to track it, I'd choose the V8 every time.

LS swapped cares are pretty amazing if done right. Whole different animal but if that's what's calling your name I surely can't stop you.

Only other cars I can think of.... Cayman GTS, GT350, or a C7 Vette. (all come in versions where you can drive with both feet)

That's a big part of what keeps reeling me back to the E9x platform. I just can't think of something else that has the whole damn package. My wife LOVED my E90, and it was rare if my passenger seat was empty (she refused to learn to drive the 6MT). The noise it made was probably her favorite bit (Borla Atak rear section was an absolute screamer in the high end of the S65 revs).

While my E90 was partially intended to be a fun weekend car, I found myself driving it to work pretty frequently and it was perfect for tossing customers in to grab a bite. New situation will have me in a company ride and puts the new toy as strictly being a fun car. So this is a big reason why I've been looking closer at the E92 over the E90 (as well as Z4M and RX-7). This will be a fun car to take around on the streets and occasional AutoX/track and something we can go take to dinner if we please.

I kind of feel that I want to have an experience while blowing off steam in the fun ride. Can a lightweight S54 driven car bring this to the table better than the S65? She is completely aware of the maintenance required with the S65 cars and that is a big turn off for her. "You just spent $xxxxx on buying this car and you're spending HOW MUCH on replacing these rod bearing things a few weeks later?!?"

And I'd love to give the GT350 a shot, but those are double in price to this market depending on where you look with a meh interior. I'd have a tough time selling that to her when we could get a fun car AND a boat for the same price.

My consideration with the FD RX-7 is to buy a pretty decent stock one and experience the high revving turbo rotor life for a while. If (when) the motor pops, I will have been building a high revving aluminum V8 to toss in. A perpetual project in other words

330indy wrote

I had to be fairly focused driving my Z4M in the roundabouts of Carmel IN
When I first drove the e9x it was immediately comfortable and intuitive. In a word easy.
But the responses were so quick as well.

Z4M was a fun and raw and visceral car.
But after saying goodbye for the M3 I never looked back.

That was my exact reaction when I first started shopping for an E90. Within a couple miles I felt exactly right. Hell, just sitting in it felt right. Good size and proportions. The hydraulic steering is a dream.

I wouldn't mind having raw, but I don't want to be tired of it after a year or so. If I were the only one in it I'd go buy this stripped Laguna Seca E46M race car that I know I could pick up at the right price. But then I know she would never sit in it! Gotta find a little balance.

The Z4M is awesome, but extremely focused. I get seat time in one pretty often and think it beats you up for little reward.
I do not like rawness for the sake of rawness. Both the E46M an the Z4M -Z4M much more- are very raw but do not handle well enough to compensate for that. The E9X is significantly better in that regard.
That said, when I see the Z4M I just love it. They'll never make something like that again. If I could have one with the S65...

I would sooner take a stockish E9X to the track for occasional use than a full E46 race car. I find the E9X chassis is way more playful and noble and then you get the V8 music in your ears.

The RX7 idea is a frankenstein. At the last AER race I was thinking it was quite interesting to have +90% M3s in the grid and none of them had LS swaps of any kind. People sooner build a stroker S54 -a ticking time bomb- than what the forums call a very cheap and very reliable engine into their car. Coincidence? I doubt it, any more than +90% of the cars are M3s and if you see a Porsche it is either in a slow run group or it blows up. Sometimes both!


In terms of maintenance: I don't think you'll find performance cars that are as reliable as the E9X M3.

SYT_Shadow wrote

The Z4M is awesome, but extremely focused. I get seat time in one pretty often and think it beats you up for little reward.

That is exactly what I was afraid of with this car. Are you working hard just to keep up? At that point it's not as fun. It's one thing to wring a Miata's neck and look down to see you're going 53 MPH, but I want some fruit with an M.

SYT_Shadow wrote

I do not like rawness for the sake of rawness. Both the E46M an the Z4M -Z4M much more- are very raw but do not handle well enough to compensate for that. The E9X is significantly better in that regard.
That said, when I see the Z4M I just love it. They'll never make something like that again. If I could have one with the S65...

I'll be honest and say that a big reason that I am drawn to the E86 is the styling. Something about a long nose and fat rear... Probably the reason I've always been giggity about a '65 Shelby Daytona Coupe

And yeah, I've been doing research on Z4 S65 swaps. When my car got totalled, I had considered buying it back to do something like that but realized I'd be in over my head all too quick.

SYT_Shadow wrote

I would sooner take a stockish E9X to the track for occasional use than a full E46 race car. I find the E9X chassis is way more playful and noble and then you get the V8 music in your ears.

The RX7 idea is a frankenstein. At the last AER race I was thinking it was quite interesting to have +90% M3s in the grid and none of them had LS swaps of any kind. People sooner build a stroker S54 -a ticking time bomb- than what the forums call a very cheap and very reliable engine into their car. Coincidence? I doubt it, any more than +90% of the cars are M3s and if you see a Porsche it is either in a slow run group or it blows up. Sometimes both!

In terms of maintenance: I don't think you'll find performance cars that are as reliable as the E9X M3.

At one point I had an FC Turbo II RX-7 that was gutted with a built up LS1/T56 in my basement waiting for transplant and TT with NASA. Posterity draws me to this to say that I finished it (with an FD this time), but I think I would go with a 5.3 and find high revs.

If I went back the E9x route, I feel that I'd rather go coupe and DCT than my previous four doors and three pedals. I always leave with a big smile on my face whenever I drive a friend's. Find me a carbon roof LCI and let's gooooooo

spazzyfry123 wrote

That is exactly what I was afraid of with this car. Are you working hard just to keep up? At that point it's not as fun. It's one thing to wring a Miata's neck and look down to see you're going 53 MPH, but I want some fruit with an M.

I'll be honest and say that a big reason that I am drawn to the E86 is the styling. Something about a long nose and fat rear... Probably the reason I've always been giggity about a '65 Shelby Daytona Coupe

The styling is, IMO, one of the best BMW will ever do. It's like a tiny Viper.

The Z4M is quite fast. Power to weight is probably around the E9X M3. And you can supercharge it with basically zero downsides. The one I drive is a 525hp ESS car and it's been wonderful all this time with massive track use.

I don't like the handling because I find the suspension is overly stiff but yet the turn in is not that great. It's probably missing a simple B12 Bilstein kit to feel better.

SYT_Shadow wrote

The styling is, IMO, one of the best BMW will ever do. It's like a tiny Viper.

The Z4M is quite fast. Power to weight is probably around the E9X M3. And you can supercharge it with basically zero downsides. The one I drive is a 525hp ESS car and it's been wonderful all this time with massive track use.

I don't like the handling because I find the suspension is overly stiff but yet the turn in is not that great. It's probably missing a simple B12 Bilstein kit to feel better.

If only the Gen II GTS wasn't so terrifying to drive...

spazzyfry123 wrote

If I went back the E9x route, I feel that I'd rather go coupe and DCT than my previous four doors and three pedals. I always leave with a big smile on my face whenever I drive a friend's. Find me a carbon roof LCI and let's gooooooo

i am a diehard 6MT guy. seriously. never owned a single AT before my M3. but...i think this platform is just plain better with the DCT. that's my .02.

SYT_Shadow wrote

I do not like rawness for the sake of rawness. Both the E46M an the Z4M -Z4M much more- are very raw but do not handle well enough to compensate for that. The E9X is significantly better in that regard.

This is exactly how I feel about anything with an S54 in it.

After about 10 minutes of flat out driving, I'm over it and want back in my E9x.

Not Sure wrote

i am a diehard 6MT guy. seriously. never owned a single AT before my M3. but...i think this platform is just plain better with the DCT. that's my .02.

I wouldn't say that I am a diehard manual guy, but I certainly prefer it. Just about anything with a bit of sport to it I generally leave out of it thinking it would be that much better if it were a manual.

But I get out of an S65 car with a DCT and always think that the transmission gearing and overall feedback and experience is better. It's like the S65 was designed with the use of a DCT. I fell in love with my 6MT E90 after I swapped in the AutoSolutions shifter, but the DCT still feels that much better paired.

tdott wrote

This is exactly how I feel about anything with an S54 in it.

After about 10 minutes of flat out driving, I'm over it and want back in my E9x.

From the lack of handling or the power delivery specific to the S54? I know after driving around that Z4MC for a bit before I sent it off for PPI that I wasn't "wowed." I did wish it had some more punch.

spazzyfry123 wrote

From the lack of handling or the power delivery specific to the S54? I know after driving around that Z4MC for a bit before I sent it off for PPI that I wasn't "wowed." I did wish it had some more punch.

I'd say both, I feel like the suspension beats you up more, if the bushings/balljoints/etc aren't in good shape, the back end can feel very unnerving. The rawness isn't rewarding, rather it just take a toll on you.

Powerwise yes, the S65 just has a bit more punch and feeling that it is something special. I haven't ever heard an S54 that I liked the sound of, if you could mute the exhaust and do a CSL airbox then maybe it would be okay.

tdott wrote

spazzyfry123 wrote

From the lack of handling or the power delivery specific to the S54? I know after driving around that Z4MC for a bit before I sent it off for PPI that I wasn't "wowed." I did wish it had some more punch.

I'd say both, I feel like the suspension beats you up more, if the bushings/balljoints/etc aren't in good shape, the back end can feel very unnerving. The rawness isn't rewarding, rather it just take a toll on you.

Powerwise yes, the S65 just has a bit more punch and feeling that it is something special. I haven't ever heard an S54 that I liked the sound of, if you could mute the exhaust and do a CSL airbox then maybe it would be okay.

That S54 vanos rattle around 3000 rpm
Really got on my nerves quick

For a weekend fun car ~$30k, there isn't really anything else to look at. How much are Cayman GTS going for these days? C7 Vettes?

Transfer wrote

For a weekend fun car ~$30k, there isn't really anything else to look at. How much are Cayman GTS going for these days? C7 Vettes?

And that's where I sit. I figure if I'm going Porsche, I'd rather go 911, but I'll wait for later in life at the given prices that I see them go for.

For a Vette, I think C6 Z06 would be my only route.

330indy wrote

I had to be fairly focused driving my Z4M in the roundabouts of Carmel IN
When I first drove the e9x it was immediately comfortable and intuitive. In a word easy.
But the responses were so quick as well.

Z4M was a fun and raw and visceral car.
But after saying goodbye for the M3 I never looked back.

Sorry to bring up this old thread.... can you dig into this a little deeper? I'm looking for a daily/weekend car..... Not sure between the M3 or Z4M.

I will still own a M340i

bese60 wrote

Sorry to bring up this old thread.... can you dig into this a little deeper? I'm looking for a daily/weekend car..... Not sure between the M3 or Z4M.

I will still own a M340i

Get m3. I had z4m and sold it for e92 m3 and never looked back. It's not that z4m is bad, m3 was more comfortable, and superior in all.

BMWs reputation for great driving cars doesn’t come from any of its 2 seaters - it comes from the sedans and sedan based coupes: think e46, e30s, e9x, all the early the m5s, 635s, etc.

The z4m is nonetheless a super cool, desirable car. Just not hallmark BMW, nor the last word in driving experience.

Like many, I have been on the hunt for a stripper spec e9x for awhile. In recent years i've had an NSX, e92 M3, M2, and a 991 in my garage. Last week on a complete whim I bought a low mileage garage queen e36 M3 coupe. After only a few days with it I'm pretty sure it is the most fun car I've ever owned. For a weekend b-roads driver it is pure perfection. I post this because it really surprised me how much i'm enjoying the e36. It is soooooo under appreciated.

JRF wrote

Like many, I have been on the hunt for a stripper spec e9x for awhile. In recent years i've had an NSX, e92 M3, M2, and a 991 in my garage. Last week on a complete whim I bought a low mileage garage queen e36 M3 coupe. After only a few days with it I'm pretty sure it is the most fun car I've ever owned. For a weekend b-roads driver it is pure perfection. I post this because it really surprised me how much i'm enjoying the e36. It is soooooo under appreciated.

Such a great car. My euro spec e36 in Mugello red remains my favourite car I’ve ever owned or driven (short of the 993 turbo I took for a spin once…).

bese60 wrote

Sorry to bring up this old thread.... can you dig into this a little deeper? I'm looking for a daily/weekend car..... Not sure between the M3 or Z4M.

I will still own a M340i

I have owned both, even owned them both together for about a year.

Depends on what you really want. The Z4M is a raw, analog, sports car with a short wheelbase, agile handling, and silky smooth S54 that makes decent power and sounds pretty good with an aftermarket exhaust. It's a sports car first, and although it has decent sound insulation and interior it is still a raw sports car at heart.

The E92 M3 is a different beast. It's a grand tourer with a a high-revving V8 that provides a completely different experience. It's not as torquey but has more hp and sounds like an Italian exotic. The car is nicer, feels softer, has a longer wheelbase, and eats up highway miles for days. It's a GT first, with some very good sports car characteristics.

Both cars are an absolute blast, and fill their niche extremely well. As I said earlier, depends on what you really want. Can't go wrong regardless IMO, and even better if you can experience both in your lifetime.

bananabun wrote

I have owned both, even owned them both together for about a year.

Depends on what you really want. The Z4M is a raw, analog, sports car with a short wheelbase, agile handling, and silky smooth S54 that makes decent power and sounds pretty good with an aftermarket exhaust. It's a sports car first, and although it has decent sound insulation and interior it is still a raw sports car at heart.

The E92 M3 is a different beast. It's a grand tourer with a a high-revving V8 that provides a completely different experience. It's not as torquey but has more hp and sounds like an Italian exotic. The car is nicer, feels softer, has a longer wheelbase, and eats up highway miles for days. It's a GT first, with some very good sports car characteristics.

Both cars are an absolute blast, and fill their niche extremely well. As I said earlier, depends on what you really want. Can't go wrong regardless IMO, and even better if you can experience both in your lifetime.

If you had to make that same choice today for a weekend car - what would it be?