What will it take to bring you back?

So after 10+ years and around 14 different BMW cars in the family, I've left the BMW family. I'm not going to get into the details of it but there were many factors that played a part in my decision. Now, the past couple of months, there has been talk about the new M3/M4. Many of you are saying either they'll be keeping the M3 for awhile, while others are saying that they'll be moving one once their lease ends.(Of course, everyone says this and ends up buying/leasing the new model anyway)

My question is, what will it take for BMW to keep you? Are their signs we're missing? BMW seems to be going in the right direction now with vastly improved interiors, cars that are somewhat lighter, and dynamically second to none in it's respective class. They're also somewhat better looking with the current F Generation. So, what will it take?

Personally, it will take 3 things(Doubt it will happen, though)

1.) Shed weight(Use of CF)

2.) Stop milking the M badge(Which has been somewhat done now that there is only 1 model that offers the M sport package)

3.)Stop copying other manufactures. Leave the identical looking cars across the line-up to Audi(Even they've recently reported they are going to stop this) and the different lines(sport,Lux,Modern) to Mercedes. BMW use to blaze it's own trail and stood out from the crowd.

How about you?

Everything said in post #1 pretty much sum up my feelings. If this M3 is my last BMW, it's a great ending. Porsche will most likely be the recipient of my business. I bond more and more with this M3 everytime I drive it. This is gonna make it a longer time 'til the guys from Stuttgart get a sale.

P car for me unless something amazing happens.

1. Agree with
2. Could care less about but doesn't mean I agree with it.
3. Also could care less, it's just another way of saying packages.

If I could afford and it was a bit more practical, I think I would go with Porsche but until then or until another brand comes with something close or better, BMW for overall package with emphasis on driving aspect.

Simple, really:

1) No turbo
2) Keep it below 3,200 pounds

Otherwise, I'll be in a used 997.2 GT3.

If the new M3/M4 is as good of an upgrade as the new M5.

There is a BMW "DNA" I really like. Never understood the appeal of what seemed like overpriced Bimmer's until I drove one. Now they seem like "values" to me.

I don't care so much about milking the M brand..... if it allows them to make profits and let M Division do its thing (with more money for research), great....

-=Hot|Ice=- wrote

So after 10+ years and around 14 different BMW cars in the family, I've left the BMW family. I'm not going to get into the details of it but there were many factors that played a part in my decision. Now, the past couple of months, there has been talk about the new M3/M4. Many of you are saying either they'll be keeping the M3 for awhile, while others are saying that they'll be moving one once their lease ends.(Of course, everyone says this and ends up buying/leasing the new model anyway)

My question is, what will it take for BMW to keep you? Are their signs we're missing? BMW seems to be going in the right direction now with vastly improved interiors, cars that are somewhat lighter, and dynamically second to none in it's respective class. They're also somewhat better looking with the current F Generation. So, what will it take?

Personally, it will take 3 things(Doubt it will happen, though)

1.) Shed weight(Use of CF)

2.) Stop milking the M badge(Which has been somewhat done now that there is only 1 model that offers the M sport package)

3.)Stop copying other manufactures. Leave the identical looking cars across the line-up to Audi(Even they've recently reported they are going to stop this) and the different lines(sport,Lux,Modern) to Mercedes. BMW use to blaze it's own trail and stood out from the crowd.

How about you?

I do agree the Bangle era departed way too heavily from the classic BMW styling, and I miss that. They do seem to be converging back on something better (new 5-series is nice IMO).

When I bought my first M3 (E46), I could always count on the dealership's service department to bend over backwards to make me happy. I had some intermittent problems that they replaced parts to address without being able to duplicate the problem. Nowadays, I get the old "if we can't duplicate it, it ain't our problem" routine. For $75K, I think we deserve a bit better...

-=Hot|Ice=- wrote

1.) Shed weight(Use of CF)


How about you?

I don't understand this. You require them to shed weight to get you back, but then you buy a car that is 400 pounds heavier than the m3 you had?

I also agree AMG milks the badge as much as the M brand so there is your second criteria not making sense to go to AMG.

To the poster who said they require an M to be 3200 pounds or less is not even reasonable. The e36 was heavier than that. I am not sure many people get it but the cool technology that comes with our cars actually has some weight to it. The trick suspension and diffs, required cooling pieces, DCT etc.

I do agree they could shed 200 pounds off the current m3 and put the next gen m3 at 3500 pounds. That would be a success if you ask me. They could use aluminum for all body panels, and some carbon fiber here and there. That is reasonable but any less is just silly to even think about.

A porsche 997 doesn't even weight 3200-it weighs more, closer to 3400 so saying you will go to a porsche due to weight also makes no sense

If BMW can milk the 6 and make it amazing (which they probably will do) that they are putting in the M3/4 I would consider staying. I'm not a fan of these different "lines" that are coming about with the new 3. Like the OP said, very much copying Audi and Mercedes with the Lux and sport, and Prestige etc. and I hope they aren't going to start doing this with all of the other Series. Also, I would think it would be bad on BMW's part to rename the M3 to the M4. Just gotta say, don't fix what isn't broken BMW.

Ateam wrote

I don't understand this. You require them to shed weight to get you back, but then you buy a car that is 400 pounds heavier than the m3 you had?

I also agree AMG milks the badge as much as the M brand so there is your second criteria not making sense to go to AMG.

To the poster who said they require an M to be 3200 pounds or less is not even reasonable. The e36 was heavier than that. I am not sure many people get it but the cool technology that comes with our cars actually has some weight to it. The trick suspension and diffs, required cooling pieces, DCT etc.

I do agree they could shed 200 pounds off the current m3 and put the next gen m3 at 3500 pounds. That would be a success if you ask me. They could use aluminum for all body panels, and some carbon fiber here and there. That is reasonable but any less is just silly to even think about.

A porsche 997 doesn't even weight 3200-it weighs more, closer to 3400 so saying you will go to a porsche due to weight also makes no sense

At this point, even if I were get an M3, it really would make no difference. The AMG only weights 100 pounds more. Also, the Cayman weights 3000 pounds so yes, it would make sense. The Carrera S weights in at ~3400. That's 1M weight. Do you understand now? Also, the weight of the C63 is nicely covered by 481 Horses and 444 ft lbs of torque all wrapped in a 6.2L V8 that will rocket the car to 60 in 3.7 seconds. Like I said, I'm not here to discuss why I jumped ship(You'd know that if you actually read the original post). I want to know what others think.

Where are you getting that a c63 weighs 100 pounds more? I have seen several weights listed as 4000 pounds. Often is compared to weight of the e60 M5. As I am sure you know several people have weighed their car and posted results and it is in the 3500-3575 range. That is 300-350 pounds heavier. Again if you require lighter weight your statement makes absolutely no sense.

The above poster said a 911, not a boxster so what does the weight of the boxster which is not even a comparison IMO matter?

To each his own but don't list criteria that you require but then do the opposite of in your decision. Sounds like no matter what bmw does you are gone but no need to complain. Go enjoy your new car and move on.

Ateam wrote

Where are you getting that a c63 weighs 100 pounds more? I have seen several weights listed as 4000 pounds. Often is compared to weight of the e60 M5. As I am sure you know several people have weighed their car and posted results and it is in the 3500-3575 range. That is 300-350 pounds heavier. Again if you require lighter weight your statement makes absolutely no sense.

The above poster said a 911, not a boxster so what does the weight of the boxster which is not even a comparison IMO matter?

To each his own but don't list criteria that you require but then do the opposite of in your decision. Sounds like no matter what bmw does you are gone but no need to complain. Go enjoy your new car and move on.

The M3 weights in at 3705 pounds from every publication I have read. The AMG weights 100 more due to the full glass roof. The car is heavy. 100 pounds really makes no difference. I've enjoyed BMW's for the past 10+ years(read the original post) and want them to start heading back in that direction. I've driven the e39 M3, the e46 AND the e92. I've had seat time in a E60 M5, an sDrive 35iS, a 335i, an X3, a 740i and these are just to mention a few. The cars today are heavy. The C63 is also heavy, yes. It also comes with a nice 6.2L V8 which has to do with some of the weight. If you don't like a thread and have noting constructive to say, move on. I'm simply asking people's opinions.

Back on topic. I want to add something to the list, but I think it's debatable. The e9x generation's interior was really sloppy. Poorly placed cup holders, materials there left you wanting more, interior design started to feel dated quickly. All of these problems can be addressed with a little R&D if BMW actually does it.

Clearly you are in denial and trying to justify your purchase as being better than the m3 but you are way off.

Here is an actual scale weighed m3 v. c63.

m3 WITH driver 3700 (driver was 160) therefore without-3540.

C63 WITHOUT driver was 4000. .

So its actually more than 400 pounds. There is nothing to debate, this was on the same scale, same day etc.

So in your quest for a light weight car, enjoy your 450 pound heavier car

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2864774&posted=1#post2864774

Next car for me is a P car no matter what bimmer does unless they bring back a m coupe !

i just want the M3 to be what it always has been. a comfortable, practical car that beats every other car out there when you take the "total package" into consideration (bang for buck and practicality included of course). NA vs. Turbo is not a terrible dilemma for me as i've owned one of the BMW turbos and they are very driveable for me.

as far as looks - i'm not too worried, since BMW has never, ever built an M3 that wasn't beautiful to my eyes. why would it change after 25 years?

Ateam wrote

Clearly you are in denial and trying to justify your purchase as being better than the m3 but you are way off.

Here is an actual scale weighed m3 v. c63.

m3 WITH driver 3700 (driver was 160) therefore without-3540.

C63 WITHOUT driver was 4000. .

So its actually more than 400 pounds. There is nothing to debate, this was on the same scale, same day etc.

So in your quest for a light weight car, enjoy your 450 pound heavier car

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2864774&posted=1#post2864774

Uh-huh. You were saying? You aren't laughing anymore are you? Also, I'm not justifying anything. Do I regret not getting the M3? Of course! The balance of the M3 is second to none. The DCT, chassis, M Diff set the car apart from everything else in the competition and it is a class leader, but I feel that the C63 is a better car for what I will be using it for. Day to day driving.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/new-car-buying/bmw/m3/# -Coupe

http://www.leftlanenews.com/new-car-buying/bmw/m3-sedan/# -Sedan

http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/m3/2012/features-specs.html - Coupe

http://autos.yahoo.com/bmw/m3/2011/coupe/specifications.html - Coupe

http://buyersguide.caranddriver.com/bmw/m3/specs#features - Coupe

O and here is the REAL kicker. BMW'S OWN WEBSITE

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Vehicles/2012/M/M3Coupe/Features_and_Specs/M3CoupeSpecifications.aspx - Coupe.

Ill take the info from a guy who weighed both at the same scale. If the coupe is that much lighter than great. I have seen the weight being the same for the coupe and sedan. If its not 4000 pounds I am glad as that to me is a pig.

Your comments still make no sense. You NEED bmw to drop weight to get you back. Yet you buy a car that weighs more than the current one:confused2

Why are you even on this board posting about your amg anyway? Its a m3 forum and your on the general page of the m3 forum. Why complain to a bunch of peoples what bmw needs to do to get you back? Do you think bmw cares if you never buy a car from them again? Don't get why people complain on a message board and then start to defend a different car. Even if one car is better-stick to the topic of the board you are on.

The m3 trashed the c63 in every test for 4 years now. If that is not enough to convince you that you are going in opposite direction from performance standpoint, I do not know what is. Again enjoy the new car!

I find it interesting that so many people are saying that after this "last good M3" they are switching to Porsches. Porsche has been around and making great cars for some time now, why didn't you buy one of those then? The M3 is pretty different from a 911 and both are very good at what they do - I happen to own both so feel somewhat qualified to say that. I really think all the current owners who are thinking of switching to a Porsche should just go ahead but (if financially feasible) keep the M3. They complement each other very well and do not feel duplicative at all IMO.

Also, on another point my 997.1 C2S weighs 3210 lbs with 2/3 tank, no driver no payload. I weighed it on corner scales.

Ateam wrote

Ill take the info from a guy who weighed both at the same scale. If the coupe is that much lighter than great. I have seen the weight being the same for the coupe and sedan. If its not 4000 pounds I am glad as that to me is a pig.

Your comments still make no sense. You NEED bmw to drop weight to get you back. Yet you buy a car that weighs more than the current one:confused2

Why are you even on this board posting about your amg anyway? Its a m3 forum and your on the general page of the m3 forum. Why complain to a bunch of peoples what bmw needs to do to get you back? Do you think bmw cares if you never buy a car from them again? Don't get why people complain on a message board and then start to defend a different car. Even if one car is better-stick to the topic of the board you are on.

The m3 trashed the c63 in every test for 4 years now. If that is not enough to convince you that you are going in opposite direction from performance standpoint, I do not know what is. Again enjoy the new car!

Ok, whatever floats your boat. You won't believe 6 different publications but you'll believe the the one that favors you? O man, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Your ignorance is amazing. You won't even believe the BMW website?


2.)This is an automotive forum and I have the right to be here. I will post what I feel will get people thinking. Why? because I have the right to do so.

3.)Open your eyes buddy! I'm not the only one complaining! Why are you so ignorant? There are M3 owners supporting me! Yes! That's right! The M3 ISN'T PERFECT! Oh my god! What shall we do!?!?! I've driven the car! There's 1 in the family! Read the original god damn post before replying. I am not complaining, and I'm done with you. I'm tired of repeating myself. Stop riding BMW's nuts.

RudyP wrote

I find it interesting that so many people are saying that after this "last good M3" they are switching to Porsches. Porsche has been around and making great cars for some time now, why didn't you buy one of those then? The M3 is pretty different from a 911 and both are very good at what they do - I happen to own both so feel somewhat qualified to say that. I really think all the current owners who are thinking of switching to a Porsche should just go ahead but (if financially feasible) keep the M3. They complement each other very well and do not feel duplicative at all IMO.

Also, on another point my 997.1 C2S weighs 3210 lbs with 2/3 tank, no driver no payload. I weighed it on corner scales.

I Really really really really really really really really really really REALLY want a 991 Carrera S. Yes, that badly. Hopefully in the next couple of years. Also, the M3 is a dream car for some. Owning one is a must.

At least 8,000 RPM.

And I could stomach the dilution of //M if it resulted in cooler cars for the more hard core BMW fans, but it doesn't. At least not in the US.