Buying for 16 year old son... decisions...

Whoops - actually forgot about this thread! Ok - for closure purposes, here it is… After months of trying to find a well maintained & cared for Honda Civic, all to no luck whatsoever (that’s a story for another post some day), I threw in the towel and started sending out emails to local Mazda dealers for best pricing on a new Mazda 3 hatchback.

…. And then, two days after sending out emails… a diamond in the rough popped up on a random search one night after some dialogue over family dinner… a last ditch effort if you will.

And here she sits… picked it up little over a week ago. Fantastic condition. All maintenance records accounted for.

EDIT: for those curious… 1 owner, 58K miles, just shy of $20K sticker.

Something semi modern and cheap. Honda with a manual gear box. That way he can learn a few things. Sign him up for BMW Teen driving school so he can learn the car at limits on a closed course. Expect it destroyed in 15 months or less. EDIT: Good bye 20K

M-technik-3 wrote

Something semi modern and cheap. Honda with a manual gear box. That way he can learn a few things. Sign him up for BMW Teen driving school so he can learn the car at limits on a closed course. Expect it destroyed in 15 months or less. EDIT: Good bye 20K

Actually- it’s a Touring, not an SI… so it’s an automatic. Every SI we found relatively close was beat to crap. Multiple owners, modded, etc. Couldn’t find a decent option.

Sensible choice but man, $20K USD for a small basic car with 100K KM on it, jesus H. Car prices are insane.

Alfisti wrote

Sensible choice but man, $20K USD for a small basic car with 100K KM on it, jesus H. Car prices are insane.

Yes they are… it’s nuts.

Has the head gasket been done yet? If not, budget $3500-4500 for it. It's not a matter of if but when, unfortunately, with these turbo 1.5 and 2.0 motors.

silvermanor wrote

16 year olds having their parents buy cars for them seems to be common these days. Sad.

My parents bought me a car at 16. They wanted me to concentrate on school. Granted, they got me a rusty old E21 that barely ran and I was active in sports and got good grades. This was in the 90's, so this is nothing new.

What's new is seeing 17 year olds with $80k BMWs.

jmg wrote

What's new is seeing 17 year olds with $80k BMWs.

That's not really new either.
In some segments of the population, your kid is an advertisement of your family brand. The car your kid drives is a manifestation of your own social standing, so you get what you see.

In other segments it's just the opposite. The higher parents net worth is, the more pedestrian cars they, and their kids, drive.

IMHO,
a

Alfisti wrote

Sensible choice but man, $20K USD for a small basic car with 100K KM on it, jesus H. Car prices are insane.

100% I didn't plan on spending more than $15k for my daughters first car six months ago but man at that price point we were finding a lot of POS cars. Maybe it was timing or the fact I was keeping a pretty narrow focus on RAV4s and CX5s (wanted small-ish SUV that was reliable, safe, low cost to insure (still insane there to since we are talking teen driver), and some basic safety tech like BSM).
Ended up with a Toyota CPO'd '16 RAV4 for a little over $20k out the door.

MSH_ wrote

100% I didn't plan on spending more than $15k for my daughters first car six months ago but man at that price point we were finding a lot of POS cars. Maybe it was timing or the fact I was keeping a pretty narrow focus on RAV4s and CX5s (wanted small-ish SUV that was reliable, safe, low cost to insure (still insane there to since we are talking teen driver), and some basic safety tech like BSM).
Ended up with a Toyota CPO'd '16 RAV4 for a little over $20k out the door.

Yep… I originally was thinking $10-12K a few years ago… that went out the window quickly.

MSH_ wrote

100% I didn't plan on spending more than $15k for my daughters first car six months ago but man at that price point we were finding a lot of POS cars. Maybe it was timing or the fact I was keeping a pretty narrow focus on RAV4s and CX5s (wanted small-ish SUV that was reliable, safe, low cost to insure (still insane there to since we are talking teen driver), and some basic safety tech like BSM).
Ended up with a Toyota CPO'd '16 RAV4 for a little over $20k out the door.

Toyotas and MAzdas are such poor used value. I understand the buy new, drive it 15K to 20K miles a year for 10 years argument as you use the reliability you are paying up front for.

With the huge caveat that I drive sub 4K miles a year, I went shopping for used DD and a half decent 2019+ Rav4 or CX5 was the best part part of $40K CDN, like fucking what? You can pick up a base Stelvio or as I did, a base Fpace, for $23K or so.

Alfisti wrote

Toyotas and MAzdas are such poor used value. I understand the buy new, drive it 15K to 20K miles a year for 10 years argument as you use the reliability you are paying up front for.

With the huge caveat that I drive sub 4K miles a year, I went shopping for used DD and a half decent 2019+ Rav4 or CX5 was the best part part of $40K CDN, like fucking what? You can pick up a base Stelvio or as I did, a base Fpace, for $23K or so.

well good for you. enjoy it

glad you did not get a BMW as those kids with one usually get into an accident, with speed being the cause.

Alfisti wrote

Toyotas and MAzdas are such poor used value. I understand the buy new, drive it 15K to 20K miles a year for 10 years argument as you use the reliability you are paying up front for.

With the huge caveat that I drive sub 4K miles a year, I went shopping for used DD and a half decent 2019+ Rav4 or CX5 was the best part part of $40K CDN, like fucking what? You can pick up a base Stelvio or as I did, a base Fpace, for $23K or so.

Sure, but there is a damn good reason why those cars are so cheap. They're unreliable as F (Alfa and Jag are bottom of line in terms of long term dependability) and you're far more likely to be staring down the barrel of mechanically totaling repair than most makes. Those cars are also extremely expensive to maintain and repair if you aren't a DIYer. I have an acquaintance that is the CFO of the local Benz/Alfa/Jag/Porsche dealer. She says Alfa and Jag are their biggest problem children for both owners and techs. My friend's husband has a 2022 F Pace. Sexy SUV for sure, but he questions the choice after about $12K in warranty repairs to it in the last 2 years plus about $5K in maintenance costs. I warned him.

Even me, an owner of two out of warranty and quite reliable German cars, has told my 17 and 21 kids ABSOLUTELY no German cars until they have the financial and/or DIYer means to repair one.

We paid $23K for my son's used, one owner, no wreck 2020 Mazda 3 AWD Premium hatch with 22K miles over 2 years ago from Carmax. That car is still worth $22k-24K on the used market. The only repair we've had to do since ownership is a auto climate control exterior temp sensor for $80 and about 1 hour of my time to replace. Otherwise, just oil changes.

This is a great first car...

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1999-porsche-boxster-276/

XutvJet wrote

Sure, but there is a damn good reason why those cars are so cheap. They're unreliable as F (Alfa and Jag are bottom of line in terms of long term dependability) and you're far more likely to be staring down the barrel of mechanically totaling repair than most makes. Those cars are also extremely expensive to maintain and repair if you aren't a DIYer. I have an acquaintance that is the CFO of the local Benz/Alfa/Jag/Porsche dealer. She says Alfa and Jag are their biggest problem children for both owners and techs. My friend's husband has a 2022 F Pace. Sexy SUV for sure, but he questions the choice after about $12K in warranty repairs to it in the last 2 years plus about $5K in maintenance costs. I warned him.

Even me, an owner of two out of warranty and quite reliable German cars, has told my 17 and 21 kids ABSOLUTELY no German cars until they have the true financial means to repair one.

We paid $23K for my son's used one owner no wreck 2020 Mazda 3 AWD Premium hatch with 22K miles over 2 years ago from Carmax. That car is still worth $22k-24K on the used market. The only repair we've had to do since ownership is a auto climate control exterior temp sensor for $80 and about 1 hour of my time to replace. Otherwise, just oil changes.

Some of this is true, some is not and some depends on circumstance. I can barely change a tire, get all my work done at a shop, we have owned the Stelvio since new for 7 years and it has been problem free other than a power draw that was solved pretty quickly. The troublesome alfas as 1st model year and also the quadrofiglio models, the base 2T is a solid unit.

The Jag is similar, the diesel engines are absolute rubbish and the shoe-horned V8 and V6's are packed in tight so there's issues like coolant hoses etc that need to be seen to. The 2T Ingenium engine, again after the first model year, has been a stout engine. I am booked for a service on Thursday, doing plugs, cabin filter, engine filter, oil change and general check on things and I am at $825CDN all in parts/labour at a very reputable shop. This includes the cabin filter which is a serious time suck to install.

Toyota reliability, no fucking way, but you need to navigate your way through the hysteria. It does also come down to miles driven, I will likely squeeze 10 years out of this car and only put another 50K KM on it so it is not getting abused. High mileage, long term ownership screams new car from a reliable marque. In my use case, I could not justify an extra $15,000 for an equivalent RAV4 (same miles/year) when it felt like a penalty box in comparison.

And just to be clear, I don't think these premium vehicles are a good fit for a teenage first driver, my comment was more in regards to the very high prices for used "reliable" cars vs buying new. A new RAV 4, out the door, medium/high trim (XLE), is about $50-52K CDN and 7 years old with 60K miles (not KM) is $40K CDN....... make it make sense.

Alfisti wrote

Toyota reliability, no fucking way, but you need to navigate your way through the hysteria..... High mileage, long term ownership screams new car from a reliable marque. In my use case, I could not justify an extra $15,000 for an equivalent RAV4 (same miles/year) when it felt like a penalty box in comparison.

It doesnt have to be new or super low miles when it comes to Toyota and planned long term ownership.
My daily to this day is a 2006 4runner I purchased in 2009 with 40k miles....I still have it...currently 230k miles and it's been a rock the entire way. I'm diligent with maintenance of course but man this thing just goes without a hiccup. Wife's Highlander almost 80k miles...not a a single repair outside of consumables (tires, brakes)
These examples as well as countless others are one of the primary reason these things hold their value so well on the used market.

The reliability (backed by personal experience) piece of the puzzle is the reason we were comfortable with a higher mileage RAV4 for our daughter with the intent of that being the car to carry her into college and beyond if she so chooses. We need her to have a car that's going to be bulletproof for her and not in the shop constantly when she is away.

Update for what its worth. Supporting the son to buy a E92 lci 330D as a first car has not been received on hear with overwhelming support. However its the journey we have chosen.

Licensed for 3 weeks and been dobbed in by another parent for speeding while overtaking coming into a corner.
Not good but if you unpack it; one has to speed to overtake in the given space provided for most part. Add you live in a community where "speed kills" has been bashed into punters all in the name of safety for the modern car with all its safety features. You do get so sick of following muppet doing 25mph in the 35 zone which could be easily be 45. He probably learnt that from me.
Yes he sped to overtake (legally zoned) and dropped it back onto his side well before the blind corner. My spin in a BMW no big deal, in a Corolla timing is more a dominating decider so perhaps sit and suck.

Issue 2,
He ran over a post. BUT was good enough to call and tell his parents on speaker phone. I said did it go mates in the car, wet car park, traction turned off, lets do a donut and it hooked up and you ran over a post. Something like that he said.
Thankfully the post gave way and he ran it over rather than it standing its ground and car totaled. Could have been a Corolla also, maybe, perhaps not if front wheel drive but that has its own learnings. Next day he leant how to jack and support, and pull the front bumper off. Ordered a new front bumper ($800 au) and under tray ($140 au), and I'm painting it for him (saving him $500 au). He almost lost his baby and the reality of the old mans waffling's has come home. I see it as he has learn some valuable lessons early and lucky enough to get away with it. I suspect job done.