Max Verstappen reportedly ‘wants to leave Red Bull’ with drastic action not ruled out

Interesting perspective. Doesn't say Lewis should have been penalized, just that Max felt frustrated by it and struggled feeling the pressure of being hunted. Also states that Max was lucky to not be penalized for his driving later in the year.

dfox wrote

Your overall logic doesn't make sense. Following your logic, since Lando beat Ricciardo, and Ricciardo beat Max, therefore Lando beats Max.


Drivers skill varies from circuit to circuit, from year to year, it goes up and down across their career. It's not stagnant, ever. Sometimes they wake up on the wrong side of the bed and suck that day. These are just people, like you and I. At the end of the day, Lando is #2 in the WDC right now. Not Piastri. Not Hamilton.

This is true. What we do know is that when Max has a good car he wins something like 8+ races out of 10 when the car isn’t even dominant. When Ham had the most dominant F1 car with a material 80-100 hp advantage he was only able to win maybe 6 races out of 10 - partly why Max in first 200 GPs won nearly 8% more races in that same milestone. Sch won materially more than even Max and he is still the best of all time without question. Nor looks to only be able to win 1-2 races of 10 when he has a tremendously fast car.

As I’ve said, Ham’s stats are pretty bad when you take out the MB years and the years he has the fastest McLaren in which he only “won” (if you can call it that) due to a known cheating scandal.

HeelToeShift wrote

This is true. What we do know is that when Max has a good car he wins something like 8+ races out of 10 when the car isn’t even dominant. When Ham had the most dominant F1 car with a material 80-100 hp advantage he was only able to win maybe 6 races out of 10 - partly why Max in first 200 GPs won nearly 8% more races in that same milestone. Sch won materially more than even Max and he is still the best of all time without question. Nor looks to only be able to win 1-2 races of 10 when he has a tremendously fast car.

As I’ve said, Ham’s stats are pretty bad when you take out the MB years and the years he has the fastest McLaren in which he only “won” (if you can call it that) due to a known cheating scandal.

HAM won a WDC while Kimi and Alonso were in their prime. NEXT.

AmuroRay wrote

HAM won a WDC while Kimi and Alonso were in their prime. NEXT.

LEW drove the fastest car in the F1 history but still he was beaten by MAX.

AmuroRay wrote

HAM won a WDC while Kimi and Alonso were in their prime. NEXT.

Alo career went downhill after his 2 WDCs especially when they were giving ham upgrades that Alo didn’t get. Kimi also didn’t care after he won. Again, ham only won due to blatant cheating that was admitted to being covered up. After that he went on to win only a couple races while Vet made a complete mockery of him. Then it wasn’t until he got 80-100 more hp he could win races and still lost to a very bad Ros. He also lost to Max while having a much faster car. When skill is actually needed for Ham, there isn’t any. Again, he went 3 years without a win while having a car much more competitive than Max had (yet still won many races) through the 2021 season and more competitive than most drivers ever will get.

Next…

///M Power-Belgium wrote

LEW drove the fastest car in the F1 history but still he was beaten by MAX.

Ok - but it's peers were quick too. By 2017 the competition caught up, Ferrari and Vettel had caught up.

Max was winning by 1 minutes over his peers in 2023, and now in 2024 he went from podiums to mid pack, to being beat by Perez.

If Hamilton is bad, Max is terrible and hasn't beaten anyone worth a damn.

HeelToeShift wrote

Alo career went downhill after his 2 WDCs especially when they were giving ham upgrades that Alo didn’t get. Kimi also didn’t care after he won. Again, ham only won due to blatant cheating that was admitted to being covered up. After that he went on to win only a couple races while Vet made a complete mockery of him. Then it wasn’t until he got 80-100 more hp he could win races and still lost to a very bad Ros. He also lost to Max while having a much faster car. When skill is actually needed for Ham, there isn’t any. Again, he went 3 years without a win while having a car much more competitive than Max had (yet still won many races) through the 2021 season and more competitive than most drivers ever will get.

Next…

Ham was a WDC runner up in his rookie season, winner in season 2. Next.

In what race was Max beaten by Perez this year?

MAX reportedly wants ..to leave.. zzzzzzzz
Next.

Aston Martin would be delighted to read such articles but I don't see him leaving the Red Bull any time soon.

AmuroRay wrote

Ham was a WDC runner up in his rookie season, winner in season 2. Next.

Actually he was 3rd since Alo beat him on count back. And again, with the best car and preferential treatement he couldn’t didn’t win. Max would have won both seasons on merit on the same caliber car. Next.

HeelToeShift wrote

Actually he was 3rd since Alo beat him on count back. And again, with the best car and preferential treatement he couldn’t didn’t win. Max would have won both seasons on merit on the same caliber car. Next.

That incorrect, he was second - he beat Alonso on the countback. It's even officially listed on F1.Com, and it was also the statistically one of, if not the best rookie season.

https://www.formula1.com/en/results/2007/drivers

Max lost his first 2 season against a guy who never won a WDC.

It's useless to compare because there are to much variables. For instance, Hamilton was in a race winning car from the moment he joined F1, Verstappen was in a midfield car for his first 1,5 season in F1. The other way around, it's just as useless to compare with all the records Verstappen broke in 2023, simply because he had the fastest car and was superior to Perez in the same car.

In my opinion, in the current F1 line-up there are 3 drivers who stand out: Verstappen, Hamilton and Alonso. Some of the others are really good drivers, but just missing that one special thing. For now anyway, because I agree with the opinion that driver capabilities evolve during a career.

And on the subject, I don't think Verstappen leaves RB for another team any time soon.

fs1977 wrote

It's useless to compare because there are to much variables. For instance, Hamilton was in a race winning car from the moment he joined F1, Verstappen was in a midfield car for his first 1,5 season in F1. The other way around, it's just as useless to compare with all the records Verstappen broke in 2023, simply because he had the fastest car and was superior to Perez in the same car.

In my opinion, in the current F1 line-up there are 3 drivers who stand out: Verstappen, Hamilton and Alonso. Some of the others are really good drivers, but just missing that one special thing. For now anyway, because I agree with the opinion that driver capabilities evolve during a career.

And on the subject, I don't think Verstappen leaves RB for another team any time soon.

I think you can include LEC in that list because of the Ferrari factor. They screwed a lot of great drivers including Kimi, Alonzo and SeaBass.

I think Leclerc isn't there yet. Too many mistakes and not as clinical and ruthless as the ones I mentioned. Same goes for Piastri and Norris (maybe Piastri even more). The potential is there, but they haven't reached it yet.

fs1977 wrote

I think Leclerc isn't there yet. Too many mistakes and not as clinical and ruthless as the ones I mentioned. Same goes for Piastri and Norris (maybe Piastri even more). The potential is there, but they haven't reached it yet.

I still think LEC's problem is Ferrari. Most of his mistakes come from the car's persistent snap oversteer. And losses mostly come from #FerrariThings. He might not be overly ruthless but makes up for that with passion. You can hear it in his voice when things go wrong.

Mayby his passion is just the thing holding him back from reaching his full potential

AmuroRay wrote

That incorrect, he was second - he beat Alonso on the countback. It's even officially listed on F1.Com, and it was also the statistically one of, if not the best rookie season.

https://www.formula1.com/en/results/2007/drivers

Max lost his first 2 season against a guy who never won a WDC.

Villenueve actually had a better rookie season because he also went into the best car. If you have the best car, it makes things easy...
Ham lost to Rus when Rus was a MB rookie. Pretty laughable to lost to a guy who is not even close to being a top tier driver.
Max as a RB rookie matched Ric for podiums and wins. Beyond that, he hasnt needed the faster car to win a WDC - 2021, and even 2022 his car wasnt as fast as the Ferrari for most of the season, and if he wins in 2024 he will have 3 WDCs in slower cars. Ham has never been able to win unless his car was the very fastest - and we see his lack of performance in all other cars that arent.

fs1977 wrote

Mayby his passion is just the thing holding him back from reaching his full potential

IDK

HeelToeShift wrote

Villenueve actually had a better rookie season because he also went into the best car. If you have the best car, it makes things easy...
Ham lost to Rus when Rus was a MB rookie. Pretty laughable to lost to a guy who is not even close to being a top tier driver.
Max as a RB rookie matched Ric for podiums and wins. Beyond that, he hasnt needed the faster car to win a WDC - 2021, and even 2022 his car wasnt as fast as the Ferrari for most of the season, and if he wins in 2024 he will have 3 WDCs in slower cars. Ham has never been able to win unless his car was the very fastest - and we see his lack of performance in all other cars that arent.

So why isn't he winning now?

AmuroRay wrote

So why isn't he winning now?

Today (!)

///M Power-Belgium wrote

Today (!)

congratulations. He won that on Merit.