Staggered vs. square

CSBM5 wrote

I recently bought another set of street use wheels for the M3 and decided on a staggered set from Apex, EC-7 in 9.5x19 and 10.5x19 sizes in their summer sale; also bought PS4S in same sizes (255/35, 275/35) I was previously running on the 220Ms with PSS'.

For general street driving these feel outstanding. I can tell right away the wider wheels giving a nice taught feel to the tires, especially out back where it's nice and taught in transitions. The wheels/tires feel great, are wider and significantly lighter than the 359Ms, and look good too imo (race silver). The perfect condition 220Ms are boxed and stored for now.

ApexRaceParts wrote

I will continue to build out this post with more extensive notes on each fitment, but here is a quick reference guide to proven E9X M3 fitments with their respective tire sizes.

Recommended Staggered Fitments

F: 18x9" ET30/31 - 240/40-18 or 255/35-18
R: 18x10" ET25 - 275/35-18

^ This staggered fitment is 1/2" wider than the OEM 219/220 M wheels, mirroring the M3 ZCP/GTS wheel widths and offsets. This is a direct bolt on solution with no modifications required.

F: 18x9.5" ET22 - 265/35-18
R: 18x10.5 ET27/22 - 285/35-18

^ This is our most popular staggered fitment, used amongst performance street and weekend track warriors alike. This configuration is 1" wider in comparison to the standard 219/220 M wheels, and grip is substantially increased without going overboard on tire widths. This is a bolt on solution with no modifications required, and perfect for E9X M3's that have remained naturally aspirated.

F: 18x10" ET25 - 275/35-18
R: 18x11" ET25 - 295/35-18

^ This is another popular staggered fitment that is just a touch more aggressive than the fitment above. These wheel widths are about as wide as the front and rear fenders will take without extensive modifications. For enthusiasts looking for a little more tire, this is typically a bolt on fitment with no modifications required. For staggered fitments, we typically do not recommend exceeding a 295 tire in the rear unless the car has a substantial bump in power (supercharged / stroker) as anything wider will likely be counter productive.

The front tires may lightly scrub the inner fender liners at full lock or at particular steering angles, and most of the time things will "self clear" over time (a little divot will form in the plastic liner). This is considered par for the course with wider wheels and tires, and enthusiasts shouldn't worry as no major damage will come from this.

* Please note, aftermarket suspensions that are known for reducing clearance in relation to the front wheels and tires will require 5mm spacers with the 10" ET25 front wheels. Examples are KW HAS, KW Variants, KW Clubsports and Ohlins R&T.

F: 18x10" ET25 - 275/35-18
R: 18x11" ET44 - 305/35-18
* 12mm spacers in the rear

^ This is the most aggressive staggered fitment out of the lineup, and would typically be reserved for either a serious track/race car or a car with a substantial bump in power (supercharged / stroker). The drivers goal is to maximize wheel and tire width under the front and rear fenders, and some planning to install slicks may even opt for a 10.5" front wheel for superior sidewall support. When running 305 tires out back (especially for r-comps and slicks), the 18x11" ET44 is recommended with 12mm spacers, giving us an effective offset of ET32. The higher offset in comparison to the 18x11" ET25 is advantageous for clearance purposes.

The front tires may lightly scrub the inner fender liners at full lock or at particular steering angles, and most of the time things will "self clear" over time (a little divot will form in the plastic liner). This is considered par for the course with wider wheels and tires, and enthusiasts shouldn't worry as no major damage will come from this.

* Please note, aftermarket suspensions that are known for reducing clearance in relation to the front wheels and tires will require 5mm spacers with the 10" ET25 front wheels. Examples are KW HAS, KW Variants, KW Clubsports and Ohlins R&T.

Recommended Square Fitments

F&R: 18x9.5" ET22 - 265/35-18 or 275/35-18

F&R: 18x10" ET25 - 275/35-18

F&R: 18x10.5" ET22 - 275/35-18 or 295/30-18


- Ryan

VCP wrote

after all these years this post is so useful to me now:lol:

gerikivan wrote

has anyone tried to go 285/35-18 all around or it wont clear that i would need to go for a 30 tire which either gonna be in between 275/35/18 or 295/30/18 is the sweet spot?

gerikivan wrote

has anyone tried to go 285/35-18 all around or it wont clear that i would need to go for a 30 tire which either gonna be in between 275/35/18 or 295/30/18 is the sweet spot?

macdude357 wrote

I'd say it greatly depends on your ride height. I'm lowered to about ZCP height and when I ran the Maxis RC-1 in 275/35/18, I got rubbing at full lock. The 285 tires will be even taller. If you are stock height, you might be able to get away with it.

gerikivan wrote

when i bought the car it came in with h&r race springs already and right now im on 19's stock wheels.. i just bought my titan 7 ts5 18x10.5 +25 and im planning to go square setup.. i might go for 275/35/18 all around for now till i get coilovers.. are you guys rubbing on the fender or rubbing on the struts? thank you.

ApexRaceParts wrote

gerikivan wrote

when i bought the car it came in with h&r race springs already and right now im on 19's stock wheels.. i just bought my titan 7 ts5 18x10.5 +25 and im planning to go square setup.. i might go for 275/35/18 all around for now till i get coilovers.. are you guys rubbing on the fender or rubbing on the struts? thank you.

18x10.5" ET25 is not a low enough offset to clear the front struts with most suspension designs, so you will likely need small spacers. That is precisely why we make our newest 18x10.5" wheels with an ET22. Tire brand and size is also a major factor, as not all are created equal.

I highly suggest purchasing adjustable camber plates, not only to ensure you do not rub the front fenders, but more importantly for more consistent tire wear and mid corner grip. You'll want to leverage that new wheel and tire package.

If you are going to upgrade to coilovers in the near future, than you will want to hold off on camber plates to do it all at once (camber plates built for the OE spring diameter will not work with 2.25", 2.5" or 60mm linear springs commonly found on most track oriented coilovers). In the interim you could pull the camber pins which will at least net you somewhere around -1.8 degrees.

- Ryan

gerikivan wrote

got it!! yea i just bought 12mm spacer on apexracing and if it doesnt clear it on removing the front pins then its time for coilovers..yea i just open a whole can of worms because once i get the coilovers i need to know what springs rates for a square setup...

ApexRaceParts wrote

gerikivan wrote

got it!! yea i just bought 12mm spacer on apexracing and if it doesnt clear it on removing the front pins then its time for coilovers..yea i just open a whole can of worms because once i get the coilovers i need to know what springs rates for a square setup...

We greatly appreciate the business. Please note 12mm spacers will be far too thick if you intend to use them up front with the 10.5" wheels, especially without adjustable camber plates. That would give you an effective offset of ET13.

Given your 10.5" ET25 wheel specification, your best bet would be a set of 5mm spacers (effective offset of ET20) with most suspension designs including JRZ, MCS, Ground Control, TC Kline to name a few. 3mm spacers could also work, but it is better to error on the side of caution if you have both spacer options available to you. Tires deflect under load, and you may go with a wider compound in the future so a few extra mm of strut clearance is worth it. Now you are currently running OEM suspension (with lowering springs), which takes up a little more room than the suspensions mentioned above, so you will definitely need a minimum of 5mm spacers to clear, and even with them it is going to be quite close.

Since you will be in the market for suspension soon, note that KW, Bilstein and Ohlins to name a few are not as friendly to wide wheel and tire fitments, actually taking up more room. In this scenario that results in the need for thicker spacers. Thicker spacers result in pushing the wheels further out towards the front fenders, which in turn requires more negative camber to prevent rubbing. It is very much a cause and effect relationship.

The bottom line is 18x10.5" wheels up front are best suited on a car equipped with proper suspension including adjustable camber plates, and one could argue that if you are the type of enthusiast looking for the marginal gain/benefit of 10.5" wheel over the common 10" wheel, you should have suspension addressed. I hope that makes sense.

Suspension is a whole other topic, but as you can see from above, it is important to consider how a potential suspensions will effect front wheel/tire clearance - something often overlooked. It is a slippery slope isn't it Give me a shout anytime if you would like to discuss further.

- Ryan

gerikivan wrote

thx for being helpful.. so if i use a 5mm spacer will it clear the 285/35 all around.. im planning to get a fortune auto 500 on my m3 soon if i cant clear it and yes im gonna use 12mm spacer front and back...should we just discussed in private since it looks like im jacking the thread lol

macdude357 wrote

It's a balancing act. While the spacer gives you more clearance on the inside, it takes away clearance on the outside.

I can fit the 10.5 Titan7's with 275 tires up front fairly comfortably (depending on tire brand) but I run -3.5* camber and have JRZ RS2 coils which have more clearance than stock.

I currently have my 18x10 ET25 ARC8's on my car with 265/35/18 tires. I have about 15mm of clearance on the outside. A 10.5" wheel would would push the sidewall out another couple of mm, then add another ~10mm on each side for the difference between a 265 and 285 tire and now I'd have about 3mm left. Not enough room for a 5mm spacer and I'm at -3.5* camber.

So, I highly doubt you'll fit a 285 tire up front with < 2* camber regardless of what spacer you run. You are going to start running out of room on the outside.

Best thing for you to do is to mount some tires on your Titan7 wheels, and do some measurements. Or measure your clearance with whatever wheels/tires are on your car now and do some calculations.

SYT_Shadow wrote

some of us do

Richbot wrote

lol

That was whiny, I ninja edited

nishfish87 wrote

I was planning on running Titan 7 TS5 18x10et25 275/35 in front and 18x10.5et25 285/35 in the rear in stock suspension. I think I'm good, hopefully. Do I need to pull the alignment pins?