Completely shredded OEM Michelin @ 7600 miles. Now What?

10-12-2009

M3V8Driver wrote
This is what happens when you're sandwiched between two Porsche Cup cars during an open lapping day inthe instructor group... trying to catch the one ahead while keeping the one behind at bay

I know I need more negative camber, that's why I asked if the dealer will do it if asked. I won't have an issue getting the brakes replaced under the maintenance-free progream. Fortunately, I chose a dealer who understands the performance-minded customer, and won't question the early brake wear.

My immediate concern is replacing the tire. The other three tires on the car are not corded, so I could really use a used one for the left front just to get the brakes taken care of. But even my dealer has their limits. If they see the tire, they will be hard to convince it was just a fluke

Anyway, the R888s can't be worse than the Michelins in terms of grip. I plan to get the alignment issue taken care of before using them on the track.

The R888 and PS2s are not even in the same category in terms of grip.
The difference is like a F430 to a M3 in terms of performance :party0030:

10-12-2009

That will teach you to check your tire pressures carefully next time at the track. Go get yourself a IR temp gauge from Radio shack and optimize your tread temps & tire pressures. Also watch the triangles on the sidewall to indicate how much rollover is acceptable. If you see it wearing past the tip of the triangle, you need to add air.

When I bought my M3, I told them that I track my cars (haven't in the m3 so far, and probably wont), and I asked about the brake wear and maintenance plan. He said they didnt care about the track usage and would replace them. He did comment that if I was coming in every month for pads, that would be a problem, but otherwise, no problem.

Back to the tire, dont drive on that thing, replace immediately.

10-12-2009

I think the OP knows a lot more about track driving and equipment than some of you assume. Seems like he's had just a bit too much fun on his stock setup though. He's just asking for a spare tire and advice on how to deal with the dealer.

10-12-2009

von_zoom wrote
I would be interested in knowing this also, and secondly, how many events did you have on the tires? Surely this did not happen during or after just one session. Good luck on the brake issue. I hope that you will be sucessful in your effort to have them replaced under warranty.
vz

Pressures were 34psi "cold".

Now that I think about it, this was the fifth time these tires saw track use. That also translates into roughly 16 "sessions" between BeaveRun and VIR. BeaveRun is known for being abrasive on tires, so if you ever go there, be sure to check your treadwear after each session. When Hankook launched their first-ever R-compound tire, it was for the Pro Spec Miata Challenge back in 2004, which was run a BeaveRun. A bunch of us were cording new (shaved) tires after just practice and qualifying! Fortuneatley, Hankook did the right thing and provided tires free of charge the rest of the weekend. they also altered their compound as a result. Now that's direct involvement and first-hand customer care!

Anyway, sorry for the rant. Still haven't heard back from my salesman.

10-12-2009

M3V8Driver wrote
Whever the Forgestar wheels get here. I've had a set of Toyo R888s stacked up in my garage for two months now awaiting them! I'm thinking about cancelling my order and demanding my money back.

I would be rethinking about using the R888's on this car.I have had had 2 sets of 888's and the last rears lasted all of 3 hours of use with a total loss of grip after 3 or 4 hard laps.I tried a set of RA1's last time out and no issues after 15 hard laps.The 888's just do not work on a heavy moderatly powered car like ours and this problem is not unique to M3's by any means.

A couple pics here.

10-12-2009

lucid wrote
I think the OP knows a lot more about track driving and equipment than some of you assume. Seems like he's had just a bit too much fun on his stock setup though. He's just asking for a spare tire and advice on how to deal with the dealer.

Haha, right on, Lucid! I was trying not to let on to that so much because I didn't want the Moderator to move my thread to the track sub forum :lol:

Anyhow, I would also really like to know if anybody ever asked the dealer to dial in more negative camber. What does the car come with in relation to max OEM specs? In other words, if BMW calls for a camber range of, say, -.1 to -1.2, what does it arrive in the showroom with?

I did finally talk to my salesman and he said not to worry if I bring it in for brake pads with a corded tire and an AMB transponder hard-wired in

On an interesting note, he told me that BMW could find out everything I ever did with the car... what speeds were ever reached in each gear, what RPMs I shifted, etc. I said, "Cool... can they send me the telemetry data from the weekend?"

10-12-2009

Gearhead999s wrote
I would be rethinking about using the R888's on this car.I have had had 2 sets of 888's and the last rears lasted all of 3 hours of use with a total loss of grip after 3 or 4 hard laps.I tried a set of RA1's last time out and no issues after 15 hard laps.The 888's just do not work on a heavy moderatly powered car like ours and this problem is not unique to M3's by any means.

Wow, that's even nastier looking than what I did to my OEM PS2. I don't really have a choice at this point... the tires are bought and paid for, and sitting in my garage. FYI, three to four hours total is about right for an r-comp tire, so you probably got what they were designed to deliver. However, after seeing your pics, I will definatley keep a close eye on them. Thanks!

I'm more worried about the quality of these yet-to-be-seen Forgestar wheels. I read at least one person claiming one of their "iForged" wheels broke on the tire mounting machine, and they're made by the same company!

10-12-2009

M3V8Driver wrote
Haha, right on, Lucid! I was trying not to let on to that so much because I didn't want the Moderator to move my thread to the track sub forum

Anyhow, I would also really like to know if anybody ever asked the dealer to dial in more negative camber. What does the car come with in relation to max OEM specs? In other words, if BMW calls for a camber range of, say, -.1 to -1.2, what does it arrive in the showroom with?

I did finally talk to my salesman and he said not to worry if I bring it in for brake pads with a corded tire and an AMB transponder hard-wired in

On an interesting note, he told me that BMW could find out everything I ever did with the car... what speeds were ever reached in each gear, what RPMs I shifted, etc. I said, "Cool... can they send me the telemetry data from the weekend?"

Busted! Moving thread in a second... :laugh:

Seriously, since your post spans so many subjects (worn out OEM tires, brakes, suspension, dealer dealings), I don't know where it belongs, so I'll leave it here. (Just throw in a question about cup holders and navigation, and it'll be totally comprehensive).

The stock alignment specs are here:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192175

It seems like you can get a little over -1 if you ask them to max it out with the pin in. If they are fine with removing the pin, it seems like you can go up to -1.3 based on Radiation Joe's post there. IIRC, at least one dealer has denied an owner's request to remove the pin.

Also, there seems to be some agreement that this car does not need more than -2.0 up front (that includes comments from JamesC).

Good luck!

10-13-2009

Understeeeerrrrr. Get that baby rotated more.

10-13-2009

if your driving the car that hard, suck it up and buy specific brakes to counter your problems, aftermarket brakes usually have much thicker pads also. plus your going to have the same problem anyway, correct the problem now with better brakes. and not go back to OEM ones

10-13-2009

M3V8Driver
Thanks for the info on tire pressure. Hopefully, if TrackDaze runs their event at VIR in November, I plan to take both of my cars and track the E92 during the afternoon sessions - looking for as much track temp as possible. I will run with stock everything, brakes and PS2s, and depending upon track conditions, plan to push it hard at least during one of the periods. This will be its first time on a "real track," and I doubt I will run out of rubber or brakes, although fading is a very real probability.

BTW, very good news on your dealer reaction to pads. I plan to ask my SA about this soon.

As an aside, did you, or have you, had any power steering fluid issues?

Thanks, vz

ps - how do you like your cup holder?

10-14-2009

New problem... car is past due for inspection, so need tires anyway. So the plan is to find some good used tires to slap on and take it in for replacement brakes and inspection.

Will run Hawk DTC70 pads on track in the future, but to be honest, the OEM weren't too bad. They'd only fade a little at the very end of the day and only if you stood on them in every braking zone until then.

Von Zoom... I haven't had PS fluid issues since the one time I expereinced the first time I had the car on track. Just expect a little seepage the first time you track it. You'll be fine.

Still waiting to hear from anybody who requested more negative camber while having car services at the deler.

10-14-2009

Will run Hawk DTC70 pads on track in the future

You might want to ask Lucid about the Hawk pads. He evidently had some problems with a set. On my 525, I run the Hawk H10s on M5 brakes and have had execellent results, no problems whats so ever. Seems for the E9X the Pagid or Carbotect are a better choice. A conversation with J Clay at the track suggests the Precission System is also good.

Oh well, only money.
vz

10-14-2009

M3V8Driver wrote
Wow, that's even nastier looking than what I did to my OEM PS2. I don't really have a choice at this point... the tires are bought and paid for, and sitting in my garage. FYI, three to four hours total is about right for an r-comp tire, so you probably got what they were designed to deliver. However, after seeing your pics, I will definatley keep a close eye on them. Thanks!

I'm more worried about the quality of these yet-to-be-seen Forgestar wheels. I read at least one person claiming one of their "iForged" wheels broke on the tire mounting machine, and they're made by the same company!

Did you get the R888s shaved? I know that they perform a lot better when shaved compared to the RA1.

10-14-2009

Von Zoom: I believe Lucid had run a different HAWK compound, as the DTC70s haven't been out for our M3s very long.

King Tut: R888s were not shaved. I have access to a track any time, so I'll mount them, drive out, run about 5-6 laps with increasing speed (no sliding), then drive home and dismount them. Voila! Tires are heat-cycled and scrubbed-in

Update: Dealer SA said they will set the alignment to whatver I want for regular price of alignment, even if it takes a little more time. Things are looking up... Baby just needs a new set of shoes!

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