Will you cancel your BMW order if a 25% tariff is levied on it & you have to eat it?

mvigod wrote

Polls so far I've taken asking about tariffs across brands:

Porsche Cayman Poll (not across the entire brand): 61% would cancel. 39% would keep order

Ferrari (entire brand lineup): 80% would cancel. 20% would keep order

BMW(entire brand lineup): 79% would cancel. 21% would keep order

It is interesting how close Ferrari and BMW were in this poll among those who ordered vehicles with both sitting at about 80% cancellation. Porsche (I polled Cayman buyers only, not the full brand lineup) sits at 61%. I have to run a full brand poll on Porsche to see if it changes. I suspect it probably will rise closer to 80% once it includes their SUV's

Either way, this tells me that if tariffs are placed on the EU, the auto market & everything connected to them in the EU and the USA will suffer a great deal.

If the tariff drops below 25% I'd imagine the 80% would decrease along every 5% reduction as price elasticity would change. By the same token, I would expect it to rise higher if the tariff extended beyond 25%.

DrVenture wrote

What you are saying may apply to individual items/parts shipped here for assembly. But, a finished vehicle from a country subject to tariffs will be assessed the full amount. Whether or not any business chooses to absorb the added cost is yet to be seen. Let's be clear, if BMW "eats" it, that means their investors eat it. Lost profits have repercussions.

In 2023 the U.S. imported almost $600 billion in goods from the EU. The point is to make it hurt, not for it to make no difference. Consumers are losers in trade wars.

BMWCCA1 wrote

I understand sarcasm, but that's a pretty bold statement to post here among many who still think only no SUV can ever be considered a real BMW.

mvigod wrote

Polls so far I've taken asking about tariffs across brands:

Porsche Cayman Poll (not across the entire brand): 61% would cancel. 39% would keep order

Ferrari (entire brand lineup): 80% would cancel. 20% would keep order

BMW(entire brand lineup): 79% would cancel. 21% would keep order

It is interesting how close Ferrari and BMW were in this poll among those who ordered vehicles with both sitting at about 80% cancellation. Porsche (I polled Cayman buyers only, not the full brand lineup) sits at 61%. I have to run a full brand poll on Porsche to see if it changes. I suspect it probably will rise closer to 80% once it includes their SUV's

Either way, this tells me that if tariffs are placed on the EU, the auto market & everything connected to them in the EU and the USA will suffer a great deal.

If the tariff drops below 25% I'd imagine the 80% would decrease along every 5% reduction as price elasticity would change. By the same token, I would expect it to rise higher if the tariff extended beyond 25%.

DrVenture wrote

That suggests a vehicle that has yet to pass customs will be exempt. Not sure that I would consider a sales advisor the final word on that, but maybe BMW is planning to eat the tariff on orders already in the system.

Josh-PA wrote

It was pretty clear when I locked in my order that the BMW MSRP pricing was fixed (minus any dealership discounts, rebates, etc.). Basically my price couldn't go up after I put my order in. I re-confirmed that with my sales advisor last week and was told the same thing.

Josh-PA wrote

It was pretty clear when I locked in my order that the BMW MSRP pricing was fixed (minus any dealership discounts, rebates, etc.). Basically my price couldn't go up after I put my order in. I re-confirmed that with my sales advisor last week and was told the same thing.

BlkGS wrote

The idea that FERRARI buyers are worried about a tariff to the point that they're gonna cancel their order tells me your poll has zero value. The idea that guys who are waiting years for the opportunity to buy a Ferrari are gonna walk away because of a new price hike is laughable. I guess the triple years worth of other buyers will be happy though.

Again, this all goes away if the EU doesn't levy higher tariffs on US imports than the US levoed on them. It should be a warning that if you want to do business with the most powerful economy in the world, you have to play nice and don't try to screw us.

X5MnM3comp wrote

Don’t disagree on your comment about the survey result.

US is in no position to declare trade wars today if the government cares about its people. Just look at the interest rate, the high inflation. How many people are on the streets old and young. How many more are being added on daily basis. Not to mention government financial deficiencies as trump openly admits. Little history background, US became the wealthiest country from being the biggest trader in the world before. And today we are doing just the opposite. But timing of doing this will risk of driving even more people that are hanging for survival onto the streets because nothing will be affordable. And this forum will reduce in its population because less people will be able to own M cars. Those can possibly be you and myself. Also what if every country retaliates, our farmers will suffer as well. Yes the increase in tariffs does bring money in to pay off some debts government owes, but realize that money ultimately comes from your pocket. So are ok with payong high price goods on almost everything with limited choice, paying high rates of taxes every year while being afraid of people robbing you or your house because of the shortage in law enforcement forces, driving your M car on shitty roads constantly worry about running into potholes and wondering where your tax dollars were spent on? If the government really cares about their people, not the 1% 2% , the vast majority and keeps the economy running, let consumers enjoy variety of goods at inexpensive prices, put money back in their pockets. There are plenty of things to reduce bs spending. How about take a look at legal citizens that don’t contribute for shit but take advantage of government aid programs to cheat taxpayers contributions. How about not trying to be the world leader all the time spend crap loads of money that doesn’t benefit our own people? How about just negotiate in a civil manner? Making threats that won’t benefit anyone on the expense of own people is just childish

mvigod wrote

You may want to re-evaluate that statement after looking at the actual poll among Ferrari owners here that I took:

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/would-you-decline-delivery-of-your-ferrari-if-there-is-a-tariff-us-buyers.702697/

For context I own a Ferrari and have owned several for the last 20 years. After spending countless hours in the ferrari forums I can tell you one of the most popular discussions in there among owners/buyers every single day is price and depreciation. Sure some billionaires do not care about price and just buy no matter what. Price elasticity is meaningless to them.

However, for the MAJORITY of the 10,000 annual buyers of Ferrari's they are far more price sensitive than you think. For a portion of them this is a "reach" car and they extend themselves to obtain their dream. For others it is a luxury but they aren't so wealthy or stupid to just burn their cash up without regard for the depreciation. I could go on but you can read through the forums at Ferrarichat (the largest ferrari forum on the internet) and will clearly see that waiting for a Ferrari for years is far less a factor than a 25% bump on an already expensive car. An 296GTS might be 400K. Tariff would add 100k to that price plus thousands more for state sales tax depending where you live. Trust me that is quite meaningful to 80 to 90 percent of Ferrari owners

BMWCCA1 wrote

But ask yourself this: When an importer pays the US a 25% tariff, and you pay a commensurate price increase on the item, where does the 25% go?

1. Raise prices by 25% to offset the tariff-tax.
2. Discontinue selling cars in the US.

BlkGS wrote

The US didn't get rich by trading. The US got where it is by manufacturing and EXPORTING.

BlkGS wrote

The EU has the power to stop this by matching the barriers to trade that the US has with them, which means lowering their tariffs on the US

NickyC wrote

Good negotiations with Mexico apparently. They’re sending 10k troops to the border to help stop drugs and illegal aliens, and Trump paused Mexico tariffs for a month. Good start.

Trump supposedly speaks with Trudeau at 3PM today, hopefully they can make a deal as well.