G87 M2 and G09 XM engine specs discovered - 455 hp / 650 hp

PLF69 wrote

Ibiza wrote

Donolotti wrote

Adding the carbon bucket seats in one of the most focused cars is a no brainer to me. Also the M2 is probably one of the most tracked cars so why would it not get the carbon bucket seats.

Otherwise the M2 would cannibalize sales of the M4 if it's pretty much the same specs. BMW needs to differentiate the M4 from M2 and not having CCB/bucket seats is one way.

"Market cannibalization is a loss in sales caused by a company's introduction of a new product that displaces one of its own older products."

Understand the concept but on the other side a customer who tracks his cars like me won't buy an M2 until it is available with the buckets and won't buy a bigger fatter pricier M4 because the M2 exists.

I don't see much loss of M4 sales "just" because of bucket availability..

+1

there would be no potential sale loss since I will never consider fat m3.

it's either m2 with the right options or P.

PLF69 wrote

Ibiza wrote

Otherwise the M2 would cannibalize sales of the M4 if it's pretty much the same specs. BMW needs to differentiate the M4 from M2 and not having CCB/bucket seats is one way.

"Market cannibalization is a loss in sales caused by a company's introduction of a new product that displaces one of its own older products."

Understand the concept but on the other side a customer who tracks his cars like me won't buy an M2 until it is available with the buckets and won't buy a bigger fatter pricier M4 because the M2 exists.

I don't see much loss of M4 sales "just" because of bucket availability..

BMW has been practicing market cannibalization for a while. For example, when they introduced 4-door coupes it cannibalized sales of their sedan versions. They didn't care about that because these buyers stayed within the BMW family. Instead, what they wanted was to steal sales away from MB & Audi who were were offering 4-dr Coupes, or at least not lose sales to them. It's market share that matters to BMW, not market cannibalization.

Therefore the M2 cannibalizing M4 sales isn't what matters. Rather it's not losing or taking market share away from competitors is what matters. In this respect, refusing to add the bucket seats will hurt market share, as Mavus said above that he'd get a Porsche instead. My guess is they will offer the buckets with a higher version of the M2 (probably the CS) as they did with the F87 M2.

PLF69 wrote

Ibiza wrote

Donolotti wrote

Adding the carbon bucket seats in one of the most focused cars is a no brainer to me. Also the M2 is probably one of the most tracked cars so why would it not get the carbon bucket seats.

Otherwise the M2 would cannibalize sales of the M4 if it's pretty much the same specs. BMW needs to differentiate the M4 from M2 and not having CCB/bucket seats is one way.

"Market cannibalization is a loss in sales caused by a company's introduction of a new product that displaces one of its own older products."

Understand the concept but on the other side a customer who tracks his cars like me won't buy an M2 until it is available with the buckets and won't buy a bigger fatter pricier M4 because the M2 exists.

I don't see much loss of M4 sales "just" because of bucket availability..

They will put the buckets in the CS model

ynguldyn wrote

Yes, the bizarro future dash will replace the traditional layout in all models (excluding niche things like G29 or G14/G15/G16) by the end of 2023.

What dash?
You mean that long weird piece of glass screwed on the dash with screws from Rona?
I would not own that crap even if I get it for free….

No bucket seats. 😒

Teutonic wrote

What dash?
You mean that long weird piece of glass screwed on the dash with screws from Rona?
I would not own that crap even if I get it for free….

Then you will have to choose another brand for your next car.

ynguldyn wrote

bucket seats seem to be missing

m20e3087 wrote

No bucket seats. I might have to steal from my M3 when I traded it in lol.

pz619 wrote

No bucket seats seems like a big miss to me.

Donolotti wrote

Adding the carbon bucket seats in one of the most focused cars is a no brainer to me. Also the M2 is probably one of the most tracked cars so why would it not get the carbon bucket seats.

PLF69 wrote

a customer who tracks his cars like me won't buy an M2 until it is available with the buckets

Tacoma wrote

refusing to add the bucket seats will hurt market share

jb001 wrote

No bucket seats.

Wayne Shorter in an interview about a piece of advice Miles Davis once gave him: "Miles said « Don't wear your heart on your sleeve - Don't give too much away. »".

There will be variants. Maybe called "a new stage in the development of the successful G87 M2" instead of "special model".

1989-1990:


By the way, in May 2021 BMW filed for trademark protection for "Evo Sport" and "Evo Track" (word marks) (see here).

2021:

Teutonic wrote

What dash?
You mean that long weird piece of glass screwed on the dash with screws from Rona?
I would not own that crap even if I get it for free….

This one from the i4. Confirmed for the start of the G87.

AlexFL wrote

Thanks for sharing this. Instead of that behemoth G09 XM, BMW should consider building a 'lightweight' 2-seater using the same hybrid S58 powertrain.

Z8/ Z8M to compete with the 911 and new SL and AMG GT? Sounds like a good plan, which is why it'll never happen.

ynguldyn wrote

Then you will have to choose another brand for your next car.

Yes, I agree. While I am sad, in a way I am very happy as it will be my pleasure to reject the monstruosities they came up with in the last years.
The new “design” (if I can call it like that) language is waaay too much for my level of acceptance (and a design should be exciting never accepted).
I’ve made my peace with myself over this and realized that I am not the customer they are targeting.

akkando wrote

They will put the buckets in the CS model

Lemetier basically confirmed in this thread 2023 G87 M2 Spy Pics/Videos: Competition (or Special Edition) Model Spotted that the G87 M2 Competition will be available with the optional carbon fiber bucket seats.

fanofbmwe46 wrote

Are those carbon buckets?

lemetier wrote

Ja

JTO24 wrote

The only hint we got was from Lemetier commenting that in the latest video it sounded like it was the special edition model they're testing... maybe there are some visual clues, too, but that's all I know of thus far.

lemetier wrote

14.10 update are just of a Comp.

IMO if they are testing the M2 Competition with the carbon fiber bucket seats then the competition model will probably have them as an option.

lemetier wrote

Artemis wrote

Spotted this G87 M2 version ?

lemetier wrote

Size doesn't increase dramatically with the exception of track/body width. G42 is as wide as current F87 with G87 increased even further. The G87 is going to be a rather special car. It will be the final non-hybridized ICE volume production model released, starting with a 450ps 6MT Pure.

Not complaining about a bump in output are we?

460ps Base
480ps Comp + Pure

That gives 338/339kW for the base G87 M2 and 353/354kW for the G87 M2C/M2P.

That's quite a bump considering that the base F87 M2 (2016) got 370ps, the F87 M2C (2018) 410ps and the F87 M2 CS (2020) 450ps.

455 hp is needed to get that new 1700kg cruise ship going forward.

Where is that entry level m car gone.

They had a 1m coupe. It was gold as a pure drivers car.

It is replaced by a bigger wider shell heavier/bigger wheels heavier brakes more weight and more expensive car. That is some piece of engineering going on at Bmw M.

They only had to take the 1m and put some modern led lamps in it maybe a new engine and a new interior it was gold.

Wrong way engineering at Bmw headquarters.

As long as people buy into marketing then bmw serves them with heavier cars and compensate with wider tires and more hp and heavier and bigger brakes and ask more money for all that extra weight.

Just want to add that if the "base"/"pure" manual M2 is not available with buckets but the "auto-only competition" is available with buckets it would be pretty stupid.

Good work, nice power...455hp for the base model

Hopefully the Comp will get the 6MT as well!

I wouldn't be concerned about the bucket seats not being consider as an option for now. The G80/82 bucket seats will fit the G87 so worst come to worst, pay for a new set and then pay again for your dealer or your workshop mechanic to install.

Karmic Man wrote

Good work, nice power...455hp for the base model

Hopefully the Comp will get the 6MT as well!

I wouldn't be concerned about the bucket seats not being consider as an option for now. The G80/82 bucket seats will fit the G87 so worst come to worst, pay for a new set and then pay again for your dealer or your workshop mechanic to install.

The CF buckets are $26-32k (parts only) after the fact and depending upon where you look. Unless you can find someone that is willing to swap or can find a G8x that's been totaled and get a deal on a part out that isn't a reasonable option.

SW19 wrote

akkando wrote

They will put the buckets in the CS model

Lemetier basically confirmed in this thread 2023 G87 M2 Spy Pics/Videos: Competition (or Special Edition) Model Spotted that the G87 M2 Competition will be available with the optional carbon fiber bucket seats.

fanofbmwe46 wrote

Are those carbon buckets?

lemetier wrote

Ja

JTO24 wrote

The only hint we got was from Lemetier commenting that in the latest video it sounded like it was the special edition model they're testing... maybe there are some visual clues, too, but that's all I know of thus far.

lemetier wrote

14.10 update are just of a Comp.

IMO if they are testing the M2 Competition with the carbon fiber bucket seats then the competition model will probably have them as an option.

Should consider the possibility that the Carbon Buckets in the G87 are not identical to those currently offered in other models. Would require a different option code.

Thanks for the information!

Serious bummer about the lack of carbon buckets for the M2 however if so.

I like the rest of the car from what we can see, but the dash is complete trash. Sigh.

ynguldyn wrote

I wonder what you'll say when it's replaced in a few years by a pure EV.

I see that this is the natural direction now, but having no V8 in the highest line of "X" cars, that is labeled as "M", seems strange to me. I am no expert of the automotive industry, but I was expecting a power train that will be shared with upcoming M5, which by expectation was V8 + electric drive, delivering around ~800HP. Makes sense for M5 and would also make sense to power a car that is a competitor of Tesla models delivering 1000+HP.

But on the other hand, I hope I will be able to put some more Ms to my garage before the era of ICE is over.

I'm glad everyone wants BMW to at least give us the option for bucket seats who cares if it pushes the cost to the M3 and M4! Also don't make the same mistake with the comp auto only

@ynguldyn

Really appreciate all this info.

Very excited about M2 as potential addition to my fleet or maybe replace F80 M3, a few questions.
- Do we know when there will be M2cs? I would imagine it would have the CF buckets.
- Will M2 also get rear floating caliper?
- Any chance of DCT?
- The dash is a real deal breaker for me. It just doesn’t fit a performance car. Any chance it will be different layout? I wish there was a analog cluster in center like Porsche does for 911 and Lexus for LC500.

Are there any special M models for 50th Anniversary or is it all just trim packages on the existing M cars?

Donolotti wrote

I'm glad everyone wants BMW to at least give us the option for bucket seats who cares if it pushes the cost to the M3 and M4! Also don't make the same mistake with the comp auto only

It's only like a what, $3500 option or so? Believe me, those seats are worth it. I looooved them.

I could of course love the M2 without them, but that dash....holy hell. I absolutely despised the digital gauges in my G82, I'm not sure I could go back to anything like that (which sucks because that's what everything is likely to be going forward).