KW Competition Installed and Tested... 2.8 Seconds Faster than Stock

rzm3 · 05-27-2011, 12:44 AM

Constructed from the same internals as the M3 GTS and 1M MotoGP Safety Car, the KW Competition system is built for M3s whose owners demand more than the one-size-fits-all, off-the-shelf coil over kits.

Designed using the 7-post rig and extensively validated on the track, each kit is customized and hand-built at KW Racing in Germany, and then FedEx'd over to the States.

Compared to the KW Clubsport, Competition uses upgraded competition quality parts for even higher performance and durability. For example, the already superb clubsport camber plate is reinforced, rubber bushings are replaced with full spherical bearings, the lower spring perches are now aluminum, and the rear shaft diameter is increased to 22 mm and available as a coil over.

This set up is designed specifically with the track day enthusiasts in mind. The adjustment range of the dampers allow the system to be comfortable on the street, and competitive on the race track.

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rzm3 · 05-27-2011, 12:46 AM

Since 2008, I've tried H&R, Dinan, Moton Street Sport, Moton Club Sport. This will be my 5th system in preparation for NASA Time Trail, so I wanted to do things the 'proper' way.

As I have a full data system on my car as well as access to MSR Houston, I decided to do a true apple-to-apple comparison -- same car, same modifications, same track, and same driver... the only thing that's changed is the suspension.

Car Specification:
2008 E92 M3 DCT
Yokohama AD08 265/35 & 295/30
CCW C14 Forged Wheels 18x9.5 & 18x10.5
Rear Seats Delete
StopTech BBK ST-60 & ST-40
GT4 Aero

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rzm3 · 05-27-2011, 12:47 AM

Driving Impressions

First, a little bit of the stock suspension.

It has been a while since I last drove with stock suspension. Overall, for a street set up it worked quite well on the track. Obviously the springs are soft which means you have to be patient, brake early, and let the car roll into corners. Or, in the words of a racing driver: "you turn the wheel and then a second later you realize 'oh shit' all the 3700 lbs are on the outside wheels."

The other noticeable attribute of the stock suspension is the mid-corner push as expected on most street cars. This is especially noticeable at turn 17/16/15 of MSR Houston. Some drivers will try to stab on the gas to get the rears loose and rotate the car, but during the process you transfer weight away from the front and understeer even more. In sum you lose a lot of time when the car understeers.

Anyhow, onto the main event – KW Competition.

I worked with KW and spec'd the kit specifically for a street legal weekend track car. KW has several set up combinations available based on their shaker rig testing and field experience. I chose rates which are about 15% stiffer than their Clubsport. This combination will give the car much quicker transition time vs. stock, and, at the same time, maintain a decent ride on the streets.

First impression is that the turn in is much, much sharper compared to stock. The stiffer springs combined with proper shock valving significantly shortens the transition time which allowed me to brake and turn in later.

Second impression is that there is much more grip in all four corners on the same tires. This is in part due to the front adjustable top mount will give you a max of around -3.5 degrees of camber. I've set mine to -2.8 degrees based on data from prior runs, but I can easily add/subtract if needed -- camber can be adjusted directly through the strut tower openings -- without taking the strut assembly off.

The balance: car is very neutral now at the limit. At turn 2 the carousel you can now be on the throttle for almost the entire duration. And at turn 17/16/15 I can easily get the car pointed at the right direction and power out of the exit.

The Results

1:48.3 is my fastest lap time on the stock suspension. 1:45.5 is my time on KW Competition. This is a delta of -2.8 seconds.

As you can see from the track data, through every corner the M3 is able to enter and exit at a higher speed. The most notable corner is 17/16/15, where the KW is 4 mph faster than stock. This is due to a much balanced chassis which allowed me to get on the gas pedal much sooner than when the car understeered on stock suspension.

The beauty of KW Competition is that it comes as an integrated suspension solution. KW has collected a tremendous amount of data on the M3 from KW’s shaker rig testing as well as racing experience, so the kits are truly tested and proven. On the other hand, most high-end dampers from other brands come as dampers only, and typically vendors who may not always have a lot of experience on the M3 are in charge of getting camber plates, spec’ing springs, setting shock valving, etc. Therefore it takes a lot of time and effort to tune a set up like that correctly (for me, I had two racing drivers help me tune my Moton set up).

Hope this has been helpful.

kitw · 05-27-2011, 02:56 AM

Wow, those struts/shocks are a lot shorter than stock! cool.

I get really leery of using spherical bearings in the top hats on the street, especially since they aren't sealed against getting crud inside them.

biglare · 05-27-2011, 03:09 AM

Great news Richard and really looking forward to seeing the times with this new setup.

Did you need to get an alignment after the installation as well?

klammer · 05-27-2011, 07:32 AM

Looks nice, looking forward to
the comparison and vids.

STALKER · 05-27-2011, 08:31 AM

Very interested to read your review.
Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing the info with the community here.

rzm3 · 05-27-2011, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitw

Wow, those struts/shocks are a lot shorter than stock! cool.

I get really leery of using spherical bearings in the top hats on the street, especially since they aren't sealed against getting crud inside them.

Should be no problem. You get lots of junk on the race track as well.

KW offers two top mount versions for Competition kits. The Competition version in the picture above, and the Clubsport version below. The Clubsport mount has boots for those who live in the snow belt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by biglare

Great news Richard and really looking forward to seeing the times with this new setup.

Did you need to get an alignment after the installation as well?

Yes sir!

flipm3 · 05-27-2011, 10:27 AM

Wow...these look incredible! Definitely looking forward to hearing your reviews and thoughts!

Thanks for always providing this forum with thorough and educational information!

kitw · 05-27-2011, 12:08 PM

Oh, I like the clubsport mounts! are they the same thing with boots or do they have some more rubber in them?

wwjd15 · 05-27-2011, 10:30 PM

Great stuff from Richard as usual! I'm in for result.

montreal red · 05-28-2011, 01:30 AM

wow thats a great looking suspension kit.

GewoW · 05-28-2011, 01:36 AM

why no love for JRZ?

rzm3 · 05-28-2011, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitw

Oh, I like the clubsport mounts! are they the same thing with boots or do they have some more rubber in them?

Neither has rubber in this area. The designs are similar in construction, but the Competition version uses more material around the spherical bearing for higher durability.

RickyBobby · 05-29-2011, 12:09 AM

Nice looking mounts. Do they have radial bearings in them?

Eugene-TAIWAN · 05-29-2011, 03:48 AM

wow i wonder how much these things go for

Maseroche · 05-29-2011, 04:16 AM

A friend of mine swears by these! he has them on several of his cars, even street-driven ones.

mastek · 05-29-2011, 05:48 PM

If your doing a true "apples-to-apples" comparison please make sure to post the compression & rebound settings of both coilover kits.

And please post an MSRP for this kit. Thanks

dawgdog · 05-30-2011, 07:25 AM

Just have to comment that I am so impressed with how you have set up your car.

STALKER · 05-31-2011, 04:04 PM

What ride height are you going to set these at?

aw335can · 05-31-2011, 06:19 PM

Im going to put those on my must have list...

rzm3 · 05-31-2011, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STALKER

What ride height are you going to set these at?

-0.75" from stock.

05-27-2011, 12:44 AM	#1
rzm3 Moderator Drives: 2008 M3 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: IL/TX Posts: 4,569 iTrader: (13)	KW Competition Installed and Tested... 2.8 Seconds Faster than Stock Constructed from the same internals as the M3 GTS and 1M MotoGP Safety Car, the KW Competition system is built for M3s whose owners demand more than the one-size-fits-all, off-the-shelf coil over kits. Designed using the 7-post rig and extensively validated on the track, each kit is customized and hand-built at KW Racing in Germany, and then FedEx'd over to the States. Compared to the KW Clubsport, Competition uses upgraded competition quality parts for even higher performance and durability. For example, the already superb clubsport camber plate is reinforced, rubber bushings are replaced with full spherical bearings, the lower spring perches are now aluminum, and the rear shaft diameter is increased to 22 mm and available as a coil over. This set up is designed specifically with the track day enthusiasts in mind. The adjustment range of the dampers allow the system to be comfortable on the street, and competitive on the race track. __________________ Powered by M-World / AiM Evo4 Data Logger / KW Competition 2-Way / Brembo GT 365 / Pagid Yellow RS-29 / Rear Seats Delete Previous Mods: RBM3 / StopTech 380/355 / Moton Clubsport & Street Sport / Dinan Stage 1 / H&R Sport / M-World GT4 Aero / Eisenmann Sport & Race / Akrapovic Slip-On
	Tweet

05-27-2011, 12:46 AM	#2
rzm3 Moderator Drives: 2008 M3 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: IL/TX Posts: 4,569 iTrader: (13)	Stock vs. KW Competition Since 2008, I've tried H&R, Dinan, Moton Street Sport, Moton Club Sport. This will be my 5th system in preparation for NASA Time Trail, so I wanted to do things the 'proper' way. As I have a full data system on my car as well as access to MSR Houston, I decided to do a true apple-to-apple comparison -- same car, same modifications, same track, and same driver... the only thing that's changed is the suspension. Car Specification: 2008 E92 M3 DCT Yokohama AD08 265/35 & 295/30 CCW C14 Forged Wheels 18x9.5 & 18x10.5 Rear Seats Delete StopTech BBK ST-60 & ST-40 GT4 Aero __________________ Powered by M-World / AiM Evo4 Data Logger / KW Competition 2-Way / Brembo GT 365 / Pagid Yellow RS-29 / Rear Seats Delete Previous Mods: RBM3 / StopTech 380/355 / Moton Clubsport & Street Sport / Dinan Stage 1 / H&R Sport / M-World GT4 Aero / Eisenmann Sport & Race / Akrapovic Slip-On

05-27-2011, 12:47 AM	#3
rzm3 Moderator Drives: 2008 M3 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: IL/TX Posts: 4,569 iTrader: (13)	Full Review Driving Impressions First, a little bit of the stock suspension. It has been a while since I last drove with stock suspension. Overall, for a street set up it worked quite well on the track. Obviously the springs are soft which means you have to be patient, brake early, and let the car roll into corners. Or, in the words of a racing driver: "you turn the wheel and then a second later you realize 'oh shit' all the 3700 lbs are on the outside wheels." The other noticeable attribute of the stock suspension is the mid-corner push as expected on most street cars. This is especially noticeable at turn 17/16/15 of MSR Houston. Some drivers will try to stab on the gas to get the rears loose and rotate the car, but during the process you transfer weight away from the front and understeer even more. In sum you lose a lot of time when the car understeers. Anyhow, onto the main event – KW Competition. I worked with KW and spec'd the kit specifically for a street legal weekend track car. KW has several set up combinations available based on their shaker rig testing and field experience. I chose rates which are about 15% stiffer than their Clubsport. This combination will give the car much quicker transition time vs. stock, and, at the same time, maintain a decent ride on the streets. First impression is that the turn in is much, much sharper compared to stock. The stiffer springs combined with proper shock valving significantly shortens the transition time which allowed me to brake and turn in later. Second impression is that there is much more grip in all four corners on the same tires. This is in part due to the front adjustable top mount will give you a max of around -3.5 degrees of camber. I've set mine to -2.8 degrees based on data from prior runs, but I can easily add/subtract if needed -- camber can be adjusted directly through the strut tower openings -- without taking the strut assembly off. The balance: car is very neutral now at the limit. At turn 2 the carousel you can now be on the throttle for almost the entire duration. And at turn 17/16/15 I can easily get the car pointed at the right direction and power out of the exit. The Results 1:48.3 is my fastest lap time on the stock suspension. 1:45.5 is my time on KW Competition. This is a delta of -2.8 seconds. As you can see from the track data, through every corner the M3 is able to enter and exit at a higher speed. The most notable corner is 17/16/15, where the KW is 4 mph faster than stock. This is due to a much balanced chassis which allowed me to get on the gas pedal much sooner than when the car understeered on stock suspension. The beauty of KW Competition is that it comes as an integrated suspension solution. KW has collected a tremendous amount of data on the M3 from KW’s shaker rig testing as well as racing experience, so the kits are truly tested and proven. On the other hand, most high-end dampers from other brands come as dampers only, and typically vendors who may not always have a lot of experience on the M3 are in charge of getting camber plates, spec’ing springs, setting shock valving, etc. Therefore it takes a lot of time and effort to tune a set up like that correctly (for me, I had two racing drivers help me tune my Moton set up). Hope this has been helpful. __________________ Powered by M-World / AiM Evo4 Data Logger / KW Competition 2-Way / Brembo GT 365 / Pagid Yellow RS-29 / Rear Seats Delete Previous Mods: RBM3 / StopTech 380/355 / Moton Clubsport & Street Sport / Dinan Stage 1 / H&R Sport / M-World GT4 Aero / Eisenmann Sport & Race / Akrapovic Slip-On

05-27-2011, 03:09 AM	#5
biglare Bulldog Drives: X6M \| 1M \| SOLD E90 M3 VT2-625 Join Date: May 2008 Location: CA Posts: 2,721 iTrader: (3)	Great news Richard and really looking forward to seeing the times with this new setup. Did you need to get an alignment after the installation as well? __________________ 1M ESS Stage 1+ Tune \| IND Grills - Sides \| Eisenmann Race \| HRE P43S \| KW V3 \| SOLD-M3 ESS VT2-625 \| IND/Challenge CF V-Weave Roof - LipSpoiler – BootLid – Diffuser - Mirrors - Brembo BBK Fiji-Green \| HRE P44SC \| MA Carbon – CF MatteSilver Trim \| Akra GT4 Mid-Pipe - Eisenmann Inconel \| 3.62Diff \| TopStitch Custom Interior \| KW Clubsport \| RD Sport Sways

05-27-2011, 07:32 AM	#6
klammer Colonel Drives: 11 spc gry m3 e90, 07 X5 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: chicago Posts: 2,722 iTrader: (0)	Looks nice, looking forward to the comparison and vids. __________________ mods: akra evo, dinan 3.45 diff, ess akra tune, dinan stg.3, Alcon bbk, HRE P40

05-27-2011, 02:56 AM	#4
kitw Colonel Drives: 2013 AW E92 M3 ZCP M-DCT Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 2,131 iTrader: (13)	Wow, those struts/shocks are a lot shorter than stock! cool. I get really leery of using spherical bearings in the top hats on the street, especially since they aren't sealed against getting crud inside them.

05-27-2011, 08:31 AM	#7
STALKER Brigadier General Drives: 2008 E90 M3 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 3,405 iTrader: (5)	Very interested to read your review. Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing the info with the community here. __________________ 2008 AW/FR E90 M3-SOLD 2013 991 C4S-Produced, but not delivered.

05-27-2011, 10:27 AM	#9
flipm3 E46 + E90 Drives: E46 M3 + E90 M3 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 2,470 iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 BMW M3 [0.00] 2002 BMW M3 [0.00]	Wow...these look incredible! Definitely looking forward to hearing your reviews and thoughts! Thanks for always providing this forum with thorough and educational information! __________________ 2002 E46 M3 6MT \| Jet Black . Black Nappa \| My Build Thread 2009 E90 M3 DCT \| Melbourne Red . Speed Cloth

05-27-2011, 12:08 PM	#10
kitw Colonel Drives: 2013 AW E92 M3 ZCP M-DCT Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 2,131 iTrader: (13)	Oh, I like the clubsport mounts! are they the same thing with boots or do they have some more rubber in them?

05-27-2011, 10:30 PM	#11
wwjd15 Drives: 11 E92 M3 MR Join Date: May 2009 Location: Orange County Posts: 1,235 iTrader: (6)	Great stuff from Richard as usual! I'm in for result. __________________ Build #1 NA: Big Willow 1:30.449 (NT01), Buttonwillow 13CW 1:56.634 (NT01), Autoclub Speedway Fontana 1:49.422 (NT01), Mfest2012 LMVS 1:59.002 (NT01+AD08), Streets of Willow 1:22.36 (RS3), Chuckwalla 2:02.46 (RS3), Laguna Seca 1:41.74 (R888), Infineon 1:50.346 (R888) Build #2 VF SC: Buttonwillow 13CW 1:54.037 (TD), Big Willow 1:29.63 (R888)

05-28-2011, 01:30 AM	#12
montreal red chris Drives: Green Frog Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Montreal Posts: 12,076 iTrader: (31)	wow thats a great looking suspension kit. __________________ 997.1 GT3RS 2009 WRX STI e92 M3 (gone)

05-28-2011, 01:36 AM	#13
GewoW #thatsanicemovebro Drives: E92 M3 LSB/Black 6MT Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 3,723 iTrader: (3) Garage List 2011 BMW M3 [4.63]	why no love for JRZ? __________________ vv Click for more pics vv Track Vids: http://www.youtube.com/gewow

05-29-2011, 12:09 AM	#15
RickyBobby Lieutenant Drives: M3 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NorCal Posts: 400 iTrader: (1)	Nice looking mounts. Do they have radial bearings in them?

05-29-2011, 03:48 AM	#16
Eugene-TAIWAN Brigadier General Drives: E92 M3 Coupe Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Taiwan Posts: 3,104 iTrader: (4)	wow i wonder how much these things go for __________________ Past: Gintani stage3 M3 present: Porsche 993, 964,997.1 GT3, Panamera Turbo waiting to be delivered 2015: Porsche 991 GT3RS

05-29-2011, 04:16 AM	#17
Maseroche Major Drives: '08 BMW M3 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bahrain Posts: 1,405 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 BMW M3 [0.00]	A friend of mine swears by these! he has them on several of his cars, even street-driven ones. __________________ Khalid '08 BMW M3

05-29-2011, 05:48 PM	#18
mastek Verified MyFaceTweet Status Drives: like an F1 pilot Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,273 iTrader: (14)	If your doing a true "apples-to-apples" comparison please make sure to post the compression & rebound settings of both coilover kits. And please post an MSRP for this kit. Thanks

05-30-2011, 07:25 AM	#19
dawgdog Colonel Drives: 08 e92 M3 dct Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Seattle, Wa. Posts: 2,075 iTrader: (0)	Just have to comment that I am so impressed with how you have set up your car. __________________ AW on Fox Red Extended, Alum trim, ZPP, ZTP, DCT, 19" wheels, Heated front seats, HD radio, Sat radio, I-pod & usb, Premium sound, AP racing BBK, 18 Volk Racing TE 37s, Akrapovic Evolution exhaust, AST suspension

05-31-2011, 04:04 PM	#20
STALKER Brigadier General Drives: 2008 E90 M3 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 3,405 iTrader: (5)	What ride height are you going to set these at? __________________ 2008 AW/FR E90 M3-SOLD 2013 991 C4S-Produced, but not delivered.

05-31-2011, 06:19 PM	#21
aw335can Private Drives: 2007-335i, 2009 AW M3 CPE Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Laguna Nigel Posts: 56 iTrader: (0)	Im going to put those on my must have list...

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