Comparison between tuned E92 M3, M4 with MT, M235i and Boxster S

[W///]

Had a chance to test drive all these cars back to back and came away with some pretty interesting thoughts. I drove my E92 M3 (full catless, Eisenmann Race, BPM tune ect ect) almost 2 hours to get to the dealership, then test drove M4 with MT, M235i with 8AT and Boxster S with 6MT in that order.

- Tuned E92 M3:
I've driven the M4 before with DCT and to be honest, I really enjoyed it. BUT, the S65 is still just such an awesome engine, especially the sound my setup makes. I know it's obviously no match in terms of performance compared to these new M3/4, but I've never felt like I was short changed, just because IMHO it has so much character. Brakes could definitely use more oomph though. You might think the you have pretty good brakes, until you drive these other cars.


- M4 with MT:
Took forever to find a car with MT. Quite honestly, I didn't really have much interest in getting a new car with DCT or AT. It's just not for me. Not to mention we don't have traffic like some of the bigger cities, so even less of an excuse. There's plenty of reviews some I'm not going to go over everything again. I thought the automatic rev match feature was pretty cool. Not sure how often I'd use it, but nice to have I guess. The transmission itself was pretty nice, although I will say that I'm one of the few that has never had an issue with how the E9x M3 MT felt. Having said that, the manual transmissions on Porsches are still better.

They also had this on the lot. DCT with CCB. Didn't bother test driving it, already knew what to expect


-M235i with AT:
I was interested in driving this car because I've never had a chance to yet. Journalists from Chris Harris to Carlos Lagos have just absolutely loved it and I had to see why. It is a hell of a car IMHO. Looks amazing, interior is improved to the 1er, and to be honest, on the streets, it doesn't feel THAT much slower than the M4. Of course, lap times will tell you a different story, and I know what I'm saying is kind of controversial, but that is a hell of a car IMO. Let's be honest, the steering is not as good as the M3/4 of course, nor are the brakes, but for a non M car, it's really good. It's actually one of the few non M BMW's I'd consider


-Boxster S:
Looks amazing, had full red interior (also amazing). Transmission and clutch is the best of the bunch. The car also had Sports Chrono and sport exhaust and it sounded great (still not as good as my M3 IMO, but of course I've got tons of aftermarket goodies). We all know that it's one of the best handling cars out there right now. It's amazing how small the car is compared to after driving an M4 (I guess you could switch that around and say the M4 is huge). The price tag on it was $85k. I would never be able to justify that to be honest. If I'm going to pay that much for a car, it's got to be able to do more than one thing. I realize this is completely dependent on your needs.

Conclusion:
-What a hell of a day. Special thanks to forum member Scott for helping me out with the test drives
- I'd still go with an M3 with MT over an M4. Can't think of many cars that can do so many things so well. BUT it is a huge car
- E92 M3 has nothing to be ashamed of. IMHO, it's still has a sweetheart of an engine (my favorite out of all the cars I drove that day). I really don't want to get rid of mine. It is in no way an irrelevant car anymore.
- I cannot wait until the M2. I lost interest when it was announced that it'll have an N55, but it's right back at the top of my list. The size of the car is damn near perfect (better than E92 for sure, yet alone M4). The M235i was probably the biggest surprise of the day, so I can't wait till it gets the proper M treatment.
- I'll be waiting for either an F80LCI or M2. Don't know which way I'm going to go yet.

I don't think there have been too many reviews where someone got to drive them back to back to back. It was an eye opening experience for sure, and they really are all great cars.

Bonus eye candy:

[JRV]

Nice write up. If you liked the M235i then the new M2 should be a gusher.

[W///]

Originally Posted by JRV

Nice write up. If you liked the M235i then the new M2 should be a gusher.

Yea I'm excited. Size wise, the 2er is the perfect platform IMO. Things change, so who knows what I'll be driving in 2017.

I've changed my mind about 100 times this week alone on whether I prefer an F80 or an M2 to add to the garage. I predict the prices will start in the low 50s for an M2. Do a European Delivery and you can have that car in the high 40s. Pretty enticing for sure.

[JPH704]

Looks like Hendrick Charlotte. I test drove the same M3 and M235i. Love the size of the 2 series. I'm also extremely excited about the M2. With all the production cars in the pipeline... It's hard to narrow down my next pick.

[Denk]

Cool, thanks for the review! Did the M4 seem as big as the f80? I got to test drive the f80 and it was too big for me. I noticed the size driving around but it didn't feel bigger which was cool at least. I haven't had the opportunity to get in an M4 yet, not really interested at this point because I really really liked the M235i I checked out. The M2 is what I'm looking forward to now.

[W///]

Originally Posted by DTM Fan

Looks like Hendrick Charlotte. I test drove the same M3 and M235i. Love the size of the 2 series. I'm also extremely excited about the M2. With all the production cars in the pipeline... It's hard to narrow down my next pick.

Yep, it was them. Cool bunch of guys.

I figured right now, just enjoy my E92 and E36 instead of looking so far ahead. Too many things could happen.

Originally Posted by Denk

Cool, thanks for the review! Did the M4 seem as big as the f80? I got to test drive the f80 and it was too big for me. I noticed the size driving around but it didn't feel bigger which was cool at least. I haven't had the opportunity to get in an M4 yet, not really interested at this point because I really really liked the M235i I checked out. The M2 is what I'm looking forward to now.

No problem! I didn't drive the M4 and F80 back to back, but I would say it does not feel smaller than M3. They aren't that different from the driver seat you know? It doesn't "feel" like a big car, but it is big. But I'm putting my foot down though. No doubt the next generation will be even bigger, and the F80 is as large of a sedan as I'd ever want.

Everytime I see an F80 on Youtube, I want one. But then I change my mind when I see the M235i, and then think of the potential that car has. I love that it was about the size of an E46 M3.

[Andy_H_E92_M3]

Originally Posted by W///

I predict the prices will start in the low 50s for an M2. Do a European Delivery and you can have that car in the high 40s. Pretty enticing for sure.

+1

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by W///

Yep, it was them. Cool bunch of guys.

I figured right now, just enjoy my E92 and E36 instead of looking so far ahead. Too many things could happen.



No problem! I didn't drive the M4 and F80 back to back, but I would say it does not feel smaller than M3. They aren't that different from the driver seat you know? It doesn't "feel" like a big car, but it is big. But I'm putting my foot down though. No doubt the next generation will be even bigger, and the F80 is as large of a sedan as I'd ever want.

Everytime I see an F80 on Youtube, I want one. But then I change my mind when I see the M235i, and then think of the potential that car has. I love that it was about the size of an E46 M3.

The M235i is arugably the best car they make right now. That said, I dont see much room for improvement on it. Its a low 13 second car with a 106.X trap speed. Not very fast by today's standards...its a bit underrated but is also quite heavy!
How much more power will they really be able to give it? How much weight can they shed. Much guess is not much on either of those aspects.

BTW - if you were impressed by the Boxster S, go drive a Cayman S or the new GTS...just unbelievable!

[W///]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

The M235i is arugably the best car they make right now. That said, I dont see much room for improvement on it. Its a low 13 second car with a 106.X trap speed. Not very fast by today's standards...its a bit underrated but is also quite heavy!
How much more power will they really be able to give it? How much weight can they shed. Much guess is not much on either of those aspects.

BTW - if you were impressed by the Boxster S, go drive a Cayman S or the new GTS...just unbelievable!

I think there's plenty of room for improvements on the M2. Will we get much more power? No. Will there be a ton of weight loss? Probably not, although I sure hope we lose at least 100 lbs (being conservative). But look at the things missing. The EPS system, brakes, electric diff, chassis bracing, seats from the M3/4 and of course the exterior bits (quad exhausts, giant flares, more aggressive bumpers). I wouldn't call those insignificant, and the fact that I already enjoyed the M235i that much (an automatic one at that) bodes really well for the M2.

As a 2 seater, under $100k, the Cayman is probably one of my favorites. I'd take a Cayman GTS long before I take a base 911 for around the same price. It's an exquisite car inside and out, but an M2 for 10s of thousands less with some practicality is what I'll be looking for. I'm excited to see what they do with the GT4 though, that should be a hell of a car.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by W///

I think there's plenty of room for improvements on the M2. Will we get much more power? No. Will there be a ton of weight loss? Probably not, although I sure hope we lose at least 100 lbs (being conservative). But look at the things missing. The EPS system, brakes, electric diff, chassis bracing, seats from the M3/4 and of course the exterior bits (quad exhausts, giant flares, more aggressive bumpers). I wouldn't call those insignificant, and the fact that I already enjoyed the M235i that much (an automatic one at that) bodes really well for the M2.

As a 2 seater, under $100k, the Cayman is probably one of my favorites. I'd take a Cayman GTS long before I take a base 911 for around the same price. It's an exquisite car inside and out, but an M2 for 10s of thousands less with some practicality is what I'll be looking for. I'm excited to see what they do with the GT4 though, that should be a hell of a car.

I agree with you there are some things missing, but adding those things will likely in an overall manner increase weight. Its a very heavy car despite its relatively small footprint. Its a shame BMW isnt good at cutting or keeping weight down. I do think the M235i is a bit overpriced and didnt feel the quality of the car nearly matched its price tag.
The Cayman since inception has been heralded as possibly the most balanced, best handling car at any price. The GTS was stunning in person and am looking forward to the GT4 as well. If they do that car the way they are saying, its the world beater we know that car could easily be done in typical Porsche motorsport fashion.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

I agree with you there are some things missing, but adding those things will likely in an overall manner increase weight. Its a very heavy car despite its relatively small footprint. Its a shame BMW isnt good at cutting or keeping weight down. I do think the M235i is a bit overpriced and didnt feel the quality of the car nearly matched its price tag.
The Cayman since inception has been heralded as possibly the most balanced, best handling car at any price. The GTS was stunning in person and am looking forward to the GT4 as well. If they do that car the way they are saying, its the world beater we know that car could easily be done in typical Porsche motorsport fashion.

I don't see how it would. Worst case scenario, it weighs exactly the same as the M235i right at 3500 lbs with 6MT. It's using N55, will have M suspension components which tend to be a bit lighter than the standard ones.

As for the GTS, I don't disagree that it's a hell of a car. BUT, right now, a base M2 is rumored to slot in between an M235i and M4 in terms of price (makes sense to me), which would mean it would start right at $54k. A Cayman GTS starts at $75k, so they aren't even on the same planet (for me anyway).

I have no doubts we'll see reviews pitting a Cayman S vs an M2 though. I expect to see similar results as when they did that against the 1M. Cayman is the much purer drivers cars, but the M2 will be better value and more practical, with more torque. Should be good though.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by W///

I don't see how it would. Worst case scenario, it weighs exactly the same as the M235i right at 3500 lbs with 6MT. It's using N55, will have M suspension components which tend to be a bit lighter than the standard ones.

As for the GTS, I don't disagree that it's a hell of a car. BUT, right now, a base M2 is rumored to slot in between an M235i and M4 in terms of price (makes sense to me), which would mean it would start right at $54k. A Cayman GTS starts at $75k, so they aren't even on the same planet (for me anyway).

I have no doubts we'll see reviews pitting a Cayman S vs an M2 though. I expect to see similar results as when they did that against the 1M. Cayman is the much purer drivers cars, but the M2 will be better value and more practical, with more torque. Should be good though.

Not a fan of the 1M at all. Did not like the oversteer happy nature of the car. Id rather have pin point scalpel like precision and feel than tq that is not easy to module esp on that car which was short and tall (i.e Cayman/Boxster). Plus the cayman looks far nicer than the M235/M2 and has much more road pressence than anything BMW except maybe an i8 (which IMO is attrocious looking).
I dislike talking value especially when a Cayman S/GTS or whatever model is far above bmw in terms of quality/fit/finish and production numbers are much lower than the 2 series line. Nor is practicality worth talking about bc the Cayman doesnt come with a back seat to you'd know that going into one. There isnt anything close under 100K in terms of what they cayman/boxster offer..and even over 100K, I can think of 1, maybe 2 cars that can match or beat it (GT3/Speciale), and those are still a big maybe.
And lets not forget sound...part of the reason why no matter how many new m3/4s ive seen and knowing its a car thats progressed to better performance, it will never sound anywhere near as pleasing as the s65.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Very nice and knowledge giving write up !
From reading your comments my conclusion is that you should wait for the ///M2 ,when it's on the market go for a test drive and more than once .
After take your time and make your choise ,and in the mean while don't forget.. you own one of the best cars for the moment....our ///M3 E92 .

[Ezio]

Would you ever consider buying something that wasn't a BMW ?

[W///]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Very nice and knowledge giving write up !
From reading your comments my conclusion is that you should wait for the ///M2 ,when it's on the market go for a test drive and more than once .
After take your time and make your choise ,and in the mean while don't forget.. you own one of the best cars for the moment....our ///M3 E92 .

Yep, that's exactly the plan. Will have to see if I need a 4 door in 2 years. But I think the M2 is going to be a blast.

Originally Posted by Ezio

Would you ever consider buying something that wasn't a BMW ?

Oh absolutely. Porsche is a very very close second when it comes to favorite car brands, just can't sensibly afford a new one.

In terms of Americans, I've always been a fan of the Viper (actually considered a GTS when I was cross shopping with the E92). New Mustang looks promising, and I've warmed up to the C7.

To be honest, there's just too many list of German cars I have to tick off first (such as first Porsche for example) before I consider American. One day

[fusionchicken]

Originally Posted by W///

Yep, that's exactly the plan. Will have to see if I need a 4 door in 2 years. But I think the M2 is going to be a blast.



Oh absolutely. Porsche is a very very close second when it comes to favorite car brands, just can't sensibly afford a new one.

In terms of Americans, I've always been a fan of the Viper (actually considered a GTS when I was cross shopping with the E92). New Mustang looks promising, and I've warmed up to the C7.

To be honest, there's just too many list of German cars I have to tick off first (such as first Porsche for example) before I consider American. One day

C7Zed

[Alpine F31]

Nice write up. Appreciate your perspective. There is definitely an M235i in my future.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Alpine F31

Nice write up. Appreciate your perspective. There is definitely an M235i in my future.

I remember we were talking about the 2er a while back because we both thought it was the perfect size, and it really is. You can really appreciate that when you behind the wheel of the M235i, it's exactly what I want out of a 2 door coupe.

If I were you, save up for an M2, I think it'll be worth it. Having driven the M4 and M235i, I can already imagine what an 2er with M3/4 parts on it would be like (i.e amazing). It really might become a cult classic like the 1M. I don't see why it wouldn't be. As a matter of fact, it is called Pyrat2 after all.

[Alpine F31]

Originally Posted by W///

I remember we were talking about the 2er a while back because we both thought it was the perfect size, and it really is. You can really appreciate that when you behind the wheel of the M235i, it's exactly what I want out of a 2 door coupe.

If I were you, save up for an M2, I think it'll be worth it. Having driven the M4 and M235i, I can already imagine what an 2er with M3/4 parts on it would be like (i.e amazing). It really might become a cult classic like the 1M. I don't see why it wouldn't be. As a matter of fact, it is called Pyrat2 after all.

Pyrat2 is going to be amazing. You can see by my avatar that I've been thinking about the M2... only time will tell what happens. I have a year left on my current lease.

Are you going to buy an M2?

[Vervain]

You've got me excited about the M235i! Thanks for the cool comparison.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Alpine F31

Pyrat2 is going to be amazing. You can see by my avatar that I've been thinking about the M2... only time will tell what happens. I have a year left on my current lease.

Are you going to buy an M2?

Most likely, although a lot can happen in 2 years. An F80 is still a remote possibility, and also started reading about the Porsche 718. The M2 is the most likely though. It's going to be so much fun.

Originally Posted by Anodite10

You've got me excited about the M235i! Thanks for the cool comparison.

You should be! I think it's seriously a hell of a car. I was seriously impressed, considering I drove some really great cars that day.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by W///

Yep, that's exactly the plan. Will have to see if I need a 4 door in 2 years. But I think the M2 is going to be a blast.



Oh absolutely. Porsche is a very very close second when it comes to favorite car brands, just can't sensibly afford a new one.

In terms of Americans, I've always been a fan of the Viper (actually considered a GTS when I was cross shopping with the E92). New Mustang looks promising, and I've warmed up to the C7.

To be honest, there's just too many list of German cars I have to tick off first (such as first Porsche for example) before I consider American. One day

i went the Porsche dealership few months back, very nice cars. although i am not about to drop 100k on a 911 anytime soon.

we may disagree on some things, but i still think your E92 is sick. i wouldn't sell it. If i had a 2008 i would hold on to it. My 2013 IMO not worth it. made mistake not getting one back in 2009.