AFE Stage 2 vs. AA Green Filter

MFL · 09-14-2014, 01:48 AM

7-8 WHP Improvement over my AA Green Filter and that's when my car is pulling timing due to it being so god damn hot.

In a much more reasonable temperature, I think a 10-12whp delta should be expected.

The lower run was done on 8/28/2014, the higher numbers were achieved on 9/13/2014. You can see the sizable temperature differences. It was so hot that my car wasn't even able to hit its' timing targets on todays runs. I had it sitting in the shade, hood open and a fan on it for a bit and was able to squeeze out these runs before heat soak kicked in even more.

STD Correction

SAE Correction

I have/had 0 complaints about my AA Green Filter. It's a fine option, but it just can't compete with a more complete solution from AFE.

I picked my AFE Stage 2 up from HP Autosport for $397, http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=460865 and I can honestly say that I highly recommend it!!!

Hujan · 09-14-2014, 12:11 PM

Interesting. I wonder what the gains are attributable to and how it compares to other intakes on the market (e.g., MS and Dinan).

Also, doesn't the correction adjust for the higher temps (but lower humidity) on the run with the aFe kit?

MFL · 09-14-2014, 01:48 PM

It does, but it can't account for my car pulling timing due to being so hot.

Hujan · 09-14-2014, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFL

It does, but it can't account for my car pulling timing due to being so hot.

Genuine question, not trying to be rhetorical or argumentative: What does it account for then? Lower air density from the higher IAT?

MFL · 09-14-2014, 02:34 PM

It's air temp correction, that doesn't translate into IAT/Heat Soak or people use methanol to cool their intake charge or run intercoolers/aftercoolers

Dave07997S · 09-14-2014, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFL

7-8 WHP Improvement over my AA Green Filter and that's when my car is pulling timing due to it being so god damn hot.

In a much more reasonable temperature, I think a 10-12whp delta should be expected.

The lower run was done on 8/28/2014, the higher numbers were achieved on 9/13/2014. You can see the sizable temperature differences. It was so hot that my car wasn't even able to hit its' timing targets on todays runs. I had it sitting in the shade, hood open and a fan on it for a bit and was able to squeeze out these runs before heat soak kicked in even more.

STD Correction

SAE Correction

I have/had 0 complaints about my AA Green Filter. It's a fine option, but it just can't compete with a more complete solution from AFE.

I picked my AFE Stage 2 up from HP Autosport for $397, http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=460865 and I can honestly say that I highly recommend it!!!

Can I ask you what octane fuel are you running?

BTW, I also have the AFE Stg.2 but with the CF elbow.

Hujan · 09-14-2014, 03:10 PM

That piece looks good, but it seems to have the same choke point as the OEM elbow. And the filter looks smaller than the OEM filter. Just judging by looks alone, I'm surprised this thing doesn't lose power compared to the OEM setup.

MFL · 09-14-2014, 03:35 PM

Realistically, in order to calculate the affect that hot air has on your car, they would have to be able to compensate for your computers IAT reading, timing targets and compare the timing advance, then do some math etc etc.

Since they can't do this, they have to make some assumptions and give everyone an even playing field based on those assumptions.

You can completely defeat these correction factors by cooling your air charge.

MFL · 09-14-2014, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

Can I ask you what octane fuel are you running?

BTW, I also have the AFE Stg.2 but with the CF elbow.

30 Percent Ethanol.

to///m · 09-14-2014, 06:34 PM

I was looking at getting the AFE intake but reading a lot on here I decided on the AA filter. I figured the majority of the gains came with the filter and the extra money for the pipe wasnt justified... This is interesting...

HP Autosport · 09-14-2014, 08:31 PM

Dyno looks good.

12-15 is about what we have seen in the past with some local M3 intake installs.

Dave07997S · 09-14-2014, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hujan

That piece looks good, but it seems to have the same choke point as the OEM elbow. And the filter looks smaller than the OEM filter. Just judging by looks alone, I'm surprised this thing doesn't lose power compared to the OEM setup.

Actually the filter is about the same size and it also offers air to be pulled from the top of the filter.

The AFE elbow is somewhat more open than the OEM piece.

Dave

FogCityM3 · 09-14-2014, 11:01 PM

Wow, had no idea AFE was doing a CF elbow. Looks awesome!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

Can I ask you what octane fuel are you running?

BTW, I also have the AFE Stg.2 but with the CF elbow.

MFL · 09-15-2014, 12:13 AM

It's also tucked down further into the air box.

SflBimmer8484 · 09-15-2014, 08:39 AM

Funny we actually found the opposite results on a race car we built - 10 whp. We were using a stage 2 plastic version though.

I suggest doing a dyno back to back to get an accurate reading.

kawasaki00 · 09-15-2014, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke

I suggest doing a dyno back to back to get an accurate reading.

to///m · 09-15-2014, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hujan

That piece looks good, but it seems to have the same choke point as the OEM elbow. And the filter looks smaller than the OEM filter. Just judging by looks alone, I'm surprised this thing doesn't lose power compared to the OEM setup.

What choke point are you referring to?
I believe this intake pipe is quiet a bit more "open" than OEM

MFL · 09-15-2014, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke

Funny we actually found the opposite results on a race car we built - 10 whp. We were using a stage 2 plastic version though.

I suggest doing a dyno back to back to get an accurate reading.

I'm a keyboard ninja, not a tuner. Feel free to post your own results.

SflBimmer8484 · 09-15-2014, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFL

I'm a keyboard ninja, not a tuner. Feel free to post your own results.

No sweat... Obviously sitting on a dyno and swapping intakes to is a not a feasible option for most people. Just as long as everyone understands a back to back dyno is needed for accurate results. Thanks for sharing your results though

MFL · 09-15-2014, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke

No sweat... Obviously sitting on a dyno and swapping intakes to is a not a feasible option for most people. Just as long as everyone understands a back to back dyno is needed for accurate results. Thanks for sharing your results though

It was done at an AA Authorized Shop/Dealer. Hit up Alex @ Carb Conn in Kirkland, WA if you want to sponsor a comparison, I still have my green filter.

Credit where it's due, the AA Green filter was a PEACH to install compared to the AFE. The boot that connects the intake to the plenum is a pain in the fucking ass.

Hujan · 09-15-2014, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by to///m

What choke point are you referring to?
I believe this intake pipe is quiet a bit more "open" than OEM

It appears to have the same "S" shape as the OEM intake elbow, both of which narrow near the junction for the (blow-by?) hose:

OEM

aFe

Compare that to the Dinan or MS intakes, which have a straight shape and a consistent width from filter to plenum:

Dinan

Macht Schnell

s85e90 · 09-15-2014, 05:58 PM

The interior of the OEM elbow is also corrugated while these intakes are smooth which helps too. The design of the AFE is very nice. I run a custom setup, stage II AFE that's been modified. Works great and is a nice 6" open cone filter. I'm sure it flows very well. I really didn't care for the OEM spring/tension fitment as it doesn't always seal the filter 100% IMO. All the aftermarker pieces are clamp on filters.

09-14-2014, 01:48 AM	#1
MFL Major 174 Rep 1,246 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Bellevue, WA iTrader: (3) Garage List 2010 BMW M3 [9.00]	AFE Stage 2 vs. AA Green Filter 7-8 WHP Improvement over my AA Green Filter and that's when my car is pulling timing due to it being so god damn hot. In a much more reasonable temperature, I think a 10-12whp delta should be expected. The lower run was done on 8/28/2014, the higher numbers were achieved on 9/13/2014. You can see the sizable temperature differences. It was so hot that my car wasn't even able to hit its' timing targets on todays runs. I had it sitting in the shade, hood open and a fan on it for a bit and was able to squeeze out these runs before heat soak kicked in even more. STD Correction SAE Correction I have/had 0 complaints about my AA Green Filter. It's a fine option, but it just can't compete with a more complete solution from AFE. I picked my AFE Stage 2 up from HP Autosport for $397, http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=460865 and I can honestly say that I highly recommend it!!!
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09-14-2014, 12:11 PM	#2
Hujan Brigadier General 569 Rep 3,742 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: . iTrader: (16)	Interesting. I wonder what the gains are attributable to and how it compares to other intakes on the market (e.g., MS and Dinan). Also, doesn't the correction adjust for the higher temps (but lower humidity) on the run with the aFe kit? Last edited by Hujan; 09-14-2014 at 12:17 PM..
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09-14-2014, 01:48 PM	#3
MFL Major 174 Rep 1,246 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Bellevue, WA iTrader: (3) Garage List 2010 BMW M3 [9.00]	It does, but it can't account for my car pulling timing due to being so hot.
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09-14-2014, 02:34 PM	#5
MFL Major 174 Rep 1,246 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Bellevue, WA iTrader: (3) Garage List 2010 BMW M3 [9.00]	It's air temp correction, that doesn't translate into IAT/Heat Soak or people use methanol to cool their intake charge or run intercoolers/aftercoolers
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09-14-2014, 03:10 PM	#7
Hujan Brigadier General 569 Rep 3,742 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: . iTrader: (16)	That piece looks good, but it seems to have the same choke point as the OEM elbow. And the filter looks smaller than the OEM filter. Just judging by looks alone, I'm surprised this thing doesn't lose power compared to the OEM setup.
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09-14-2014, 03:35 PM	#8
MFL Major 174 Rep 1,246 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Bellevue, WA iTrader: (3) Garage List 2010 BMW M3 [9.00]	Realistically, in order to calculate the affect that hot air has on your car, they would have to be able to compensate for your computers IAT reading, timing targets and compare the timing advance, then do some math etc etc. Since they can't do this, they have to make some assumptions and give everyone an even playing field based on those assumptions. You can completely defeat these correction factors by cooling your air charge.
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09-14-2014, 06:34 PM	#10
to///m Lieutenant 264 Rep 584 Posts Drives: 2023 M3 CX Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Jacksonville, FL iTrader: (3) Garage List 2023 BMW M3 CX [9.50] 2018 BMW X5 [0.00] 2018 Ford Raptor [0.00]	I was looking at getting the AFE intake but reading a lot on here I decided on the AA filter. I figured the majority of the gains came with the filter and the extra money for the pipe wasnt justified... This is interesting... __________________ 2023 BG G80 ///M3 COMP XDRIVE Dinan CF Intake \| Valvetronic SS Full Exhaust \| AST Adjustable Springs \| UNIT 17 Front Splitter \| UNIT 17 Sideskirts \| BC Forged HSC21 Wheels 20x10 et12 / 20x11 et12
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09-14-2014, 08:31 PM	#11
HP Autosport Supreme Allied Commander 3845 Rep 54,376 Posts Drives: F80 M3 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Santa Barbara, AP, Brembo, GIAC, Koni, Ohlins, Performance Friction, www.hpautosport.com iTrader: (36)	Dyno looks good. 12-15 is about what we have seen in the past with some local M3 intake installs.
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09-15-2014, 12:13 AM	#14
MFL Major 174 Rep 1,246 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Bellevue, WA iTrader: (3) Garage List 2010 BMW M3 [9.00]	It's also tucked down further into the air box.
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09-15-2014, 08:39 AM	#15
SflBimmer8484 Brigadier General 1469 Rep 3,157 Posts Drives: . Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Florida iTrader: (5)	Funny we actually found the opposite results on a race car we built - 10 whp. We were using a stage 2 plastic version though. I suggest doing a dyno back to back to get an accurate reading.
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09-15-2014, 05:58 PM	#22
s85e90 Brigadier General 192 Rep 3,633 Posts Drives: black e90 Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: everywhere iTrader: (2)	The interior of the OEM elbow is also corrugated while these intakes are smooth which helps too. The design of the AFE is very nice. I run a custom setup, stage II AFE that's been modified. Works great and is a nice 6" open cone filter. I'm sure it flows very well. I really didn't care for the OEM spring/tension fitment as it doesn't always seal the filter 100% IMO. All the aftermarker pieces are clamp on filters.
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