Why everyone feels the 6MT as notchy?

[Pancho]

Originally Posted by GT3 Tim

I drove the E92 and did not think it was notchy at all. If you want notchy, try a GT3! I think those that felt it was notchy prolly like the butter soft clutch as well. lol

Yes. When I mentioned the notchiness of the M3 to a friend with a 997 GT3, he told me to get used to it, it is common on MT. Also, you have to become accustomed to the variability. Sometimes the notchiness migrates to 2nd gear from the 1st and then to 3rd from 2nd.

[!Xoible]

sportier clutches tend to do that. even my G35 was pretty damn notchy, it was like riding a mustang (like the horse, not Ford mustang)

[Pancho]

Originally Posted by mantis

sportier clutches tend to do that. even my G35 was pretty damn notchy, it was like riding a mustang (like the horse, not Ford mustang)

As Southlight has already mentioned, it is not the clutch what I am referring to Mantis but the shifter.

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by Pancho

As Southlight has already mentioned, it is not the clutch what I am referring to Mantis but the shifter.

gotcha. you feel like metal is kinda biting on each other, in other words a very light case of "grinding"??
coz i felt that even as the car was off when i was playing with the shifter

[Pancho]

Originally Posted by mantis

gotcha. you feel like metal is kinda biting on each other, in other words a very light case of "grinding"??
coz i felt that even as the car was off when i was playing with the shifter

Yep. That is the definition of notchy according to GregW. It is when gears collide against each other.

[omerfar23]

Originally Posted by Pancho

Yes. When I mentioned the notchiness of the M3 to a friend with a 997 GT3, he told me to get used to it, it is common on MT. Also, you have to become accustomed to the variability. Sometimes the notchiness migrates to 2nd gear from the 1st and then to 3rd from 2nd.

I do not have M3 but a 335 but I can relate to the 'notchiness' feel in BMW manual transmission in question here. Originally when I got my car I didn't like the 6sp manual gearbox because of the notchy feel along with long throws. I even thought maybe there some technical problems.

My previous car was a Honda and I have driving Subaru 5spd over the years. Honda’s is one of the best transmission makers in the world. I researched online and found that bunch of people felt the notchy feel from MT. I also read professional review but on the contrary found that most journalists actually liked the manual transmission and though it was excellent.

So I was a little perplexed at first but I thought it was too late to do anything so I moved on. Long story short, now my car has 2k miles and I know understand why the transmission is excellent. First of all, I think most people experiencing the notchiness feel in tranny are not applying the clutch properly or new to a sports car tranny. Personally the ‘notichiness’’ along with relatively long throws in a MT is a good thing because it gives more of driving car feel rather driving a go-cart. It took me a while to understand this but I now appreciate a solid and heavy gearbox versus a light and loose one.

Now when I drive I Honda MT (2008 Honda Accord 5spd) the transmission feels like amateurish, MT gears designed for a kid where all the gears within inches of each other you confuse which gear you are in and there is a lot of play in the gears themselves. Where as the 335 6sp tranny is very precise, no play in gears you always know which gear you are in and solid shift feeling (when done right). No doubt the BMW 6sp is harder car to learn manual transmission but once mastered it is very rewarding since it provides feedback with every gear change.

[corn on macabre]

I definitely feel an occasional "bite" downshifting from 3rd to 2nd...I'm sort of worried, it doesn't seem right. Also my tranny seems to rattle between gears (specificially 1st and 2nd), though I've seen others on this forum complain about this noise I am still concerned. Maybe the problem will resolve itself after my 1200 mile service.

[sayemthree]

the e46 trans is a bit notchy- some consider it a good thing- if you get over the feel it works just fine.

[Pancho]

Originally Posted by corn on macabre

I definitely feel an occasional "bite" downshifting from 3rd to 2nd...I'm sort of worried, it doesn't seem right. Also my tranny seems to rattle between gears (specificially 1st and 2nd), though I've seen others on this forum complain about this noise I am still concerned. Maybe the problem will resolve itself after my 1200 mile service.

These two observations have come up frequently on this forum. The 1st is the notchiness we have discussed in detail in this thread and the 2nd is the known "clunk". The 1st will get better with use but will never correct completely. Both can be minimized with proper clutch application. Don't worry, it is normal and will not affect performance of vehicle.

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by Pancho

These two observations have come up frequently on this forum. The 1st is the notchiness we have discussed in detail in this thread and the 2nd is the known "clunk". The 1st will get better with use but will never correct completely. Both can be minimized with proper clutch application. Don't worry, it is normal and will not affect performance of vehicle.

+1!!!

[gadget]

Originally Posted by southlight

On the other hand we don't have to know how to 'emergency-release' the parking lock with a screw driver.


Best regards, south

How often will this really happen, once in a blue moon... never... i can deal with that. The 6MT issue seems to be a far more common occurrence

[m3larson]

I feel my clutch being spongy. Is that a word? I grabbed second gear yesterday when i was getting on her and heard a grind. that was weird...

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by m3larson

I feel my clutch being spongy. Is that a word? I grabbed second gear yesterday when i was getting on her and heard a grind. that was weird...

Have you been using the clutch too much? Should feel light!!! A grind is not a big deal, it happens when you let the clutch out too soon, but clearly not good to do it all the time.

[GregW / Oregon]

One thing I do notice compared to the E46 M3 6-speed is there is a much stronger detent to the 5-6 slot, which is good; makes it harder top confuse 3-4 with 5-6 by feel.

[BobbieBrighto]

The notchiness and impreciseness seems to be a common trait of european design.

Honda shifters are smooth like butter.

[Pancho]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

One thing I do notice compared to the E46 M3 6-speed is there is a much stronger detent to the 5-6 slot, which is good; makes it harder top confuse 3-4 with 5-6 by feel.

GregW, I would like to hear your opinion on the E92 6MT. Do you feel it similar to the E46? Do you feel it notchy? The notchiness affects the transmission long term? Thanks for your views.

[!Xoible]

i just test drove the car at Crevier bmw. OMG the clutch is beyond horrible!!!! i thought it would be at least better than my old G35. i was thinking notchy as in Z4M. that thing is horrible. it's so light too, feels like super delicate. WTF is that all about??
worst clutch i've driven so far.

and you can definitely feel the annoying pull back of CDV. E46 clutch is much more forgiving than E92 for sure. i can drive e46 with no problems or jerkiness at all, but this?!!!

everything else in the car is

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by mantis

i just test drove the car at Crevier bmw. OMG the clutch is beyond horrible!!!! i thought it would be at least better than my old G35. i was thinking notchy as in Z4M. that thing is horrible. it's so light too, feels like super delicate. WTF is that all about??
worst clutch i've driven so far.

and you can definitely feel the annoying pull back of CDV. E46 clutch is much more forgiving than E92 for sure. i can drive e46 with no problems or jerkiness at all, but this?!!!

everything else in the car is

Totally disagree. I'm still getting use to the engagement action, but I LIKE the lightness compared to the E46. No way this is a delicate clutch. Making it easy to use is not a sin.

[!Xoible]

idk man, i didnt like it at all. i dont remember jerking in E46's at all, dang, i dont remember jerking in G35 that much and that was one of the most horrible clutches i've had.

i meant "less forgiving" or "high maintenance" more than delicate. like you either get it perfect or it jerks, not in between like 335's, or Z4M's clutches

maybe you either got used to it, or it improved after break-in?

btw, the car had 8.2 mpg WTF!!!

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by Pancho

GregW, I would like to hear your opinion on the E92 6MT. Do you feel it similar to the E46? Do you feel it notchy? The notchiness affects the transmission long term? Thanks for your views.

Well, My E46 had 58k on it when i sold it, so it's hard to compare new to new. The synchors were definitely exhibiting some wear. For many years I had the bad habit of downshifting through the gears when coming to a stop. That adds synchor wear without any real benefit, and I don't do that any more.

As far as I can tell, the new tranny/clutch setup is like 50% better than the E46. Not smooth as cutting through butter with a hot knife under all circumstances, but definitely better and just fine.

[!Xoible]

have you driven a 6mt 335 Greg? how do you compare it to that, after clutch is broken in?

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by mantis

idk man, i didnt like it at all. i dont remember jerking in E46's at all, dang, i dont remember jerking in G35 that much and that was one of the most horrible clutches i've had.

i meant "less forgiving" or "high maintenance" more than delicate. like you either get it perfect or it jerks, not in between like 335's, or Z4M's clutches

maybe you either got used to it, or it improved after break-in?

Clutches take a lot of learning to get right. You can't expect your reactions and inputs to be spot on a quick test drive. Smooth action comes with a few k miles of getting used to it.

btw, the car had 8.2 mpg WTF!!!

Well, then you know how it was being driven. One good reason not to buy a demo. Any V8, when driven to its potential, will have similar mileage. I'm only getting 13.5 taking it fairly easy, though. Economy is not the strong suit of this powerplant, but HELL, it sure is fun, and I haven't even gone over 6k Rs.