2010 E63 vs. E92 M3/E60 M5 (merc quick review)

[!Xoible]

Well not reall a "vs." thread, but since i come from a E92 M3, E60 M5 my quick review is based on these 2 cars.

Exterior: i thought the car looks 100x better than the new 2010 regular E class without amg, doesnt say much because to me the E class looks like a Hyundai (that's an insult... to Hyundai). Exhaust tips from Acura TL, front LED's from Audi, headlights looking pretty lexus GS-ish (i believe), hyundai taillights etc. the first thing i said was the car is probably the ugliest Merc/AMG i have seen in a long time. this is my own taste tho...

Interior: very clean interior, very nice. you see buttons and knobs all over the place, on the driver seat (like old infiniti's), near the shifter (5 knobs), etc. the clock is next to the speedometer and just as big (wtf). the steering wheel has the nice german feel though (the wheel itself, parked, not moving).

what we know as comfort access: you still have 2 things that are visible on the door knob, a black spot, and another painted spot. they should have either had only one, or just be like bmw and make it invisible... oh well.

i got into the car, finally. started the engine, put in gear and started my search for the hand break release. and YES, it's the one u push with ur leg, and to release you pull like an old dodge truck! LOVE IT. pressed the 'AMG' button (that huge knob near the shifter is actually a button). it's set to put the transmission to sport+ (sounds familiar? lol) but other than that there's no indication on the knob or dash that the AMG button is turned on. so i was confused most of my drive

transmission:, what i was mostly interestd in: first of all when u take off in any of the 4 modes u feel the clutch working.
second is the goddamn shifter. u cant go to manual mode using the shifter, there's another knob for that! a knob that has the following modes:
- there's a 'c' mode (comfort) that starts it in 2nd gear, very slow to shift, and very smooth but does have the jerk of an automatic.
- there's a 's' mode (sport) which i didnt feel was significant enough to have its own category. shifts a tad faster and starts the car in 1st gear.
- s+ mode (sport plus, thanks for the name, BMW) which supposedly is the most aggressive, and it is.
- m mode (manual) which i found was the easiest to deal with, you're "in control" (u never are with software-controlled chick-tronic trannies)

i mostly played with S+ since the owner recommended it, then naturally got aggrevated and switched to M mode on the way back. here's what i found:

1. based on ur throttle input (there's also that little button under the gas pedal, again thanks BMW) the car shift gear to the gear you expect it to (no shit!). press 2/3 of throttle from 5th or 6th and u get 3rd, u floor it and u get 2nd
2. shift ups are quick but i cannot say they're like the GTR or the M3. they have a "automatic" feel to them, idk how to describe it but i didnt feel any sportiness or aggression. the only thing i felt was a little sound coming from the back just like when you do a not-so-smooth SMG shift
3. using the paddles if u want to shift from 5th to 3rd i naturally double tap the - paddle. well if u tap it 6 times or 2 times it will only downshift once. no matter in what mode or how fast/slow u do it. i found that very extremely disappointing. it should do what i want, if it's dangerous then restrain, that's how i would have wanted it
4. rev matches are good, but even any average car manufacturer got that now

ENgine: the engine is very smooth, almost too smooth like the M3's engine. and what i mean by that is speedometer goes to infiniti but u really do not feel any of it. feels like the acceleration of a camry except it's already 145 mph in like 3 seconds. all u hear is the tires every time there's a shift. that was my only indication there was something going on. i miss the previous E63 engine, that thing used to shove me in my seat.

Adjustable dampers: there's also 3 settings like the m3/m5 but it's very very hard to notice it. i had to go on super bumpy roads and really try to feel for it. tried taking curves but a boat is a boat i guess! i think they should have more work in this area.

steering: hello camry! literally. i found the older gen E63/E55 and even the C63 a lot more precise. heck even the older E320 had more precise steering. it's so light, wobbly, wiggly, u name it. i thought the 'AMG" button would fix it, but not sure it's adjustable or not. maybe it is.. idk i wanted to take the car to more challenging turns/curves but i didnt feel confident enough in it.

exhaust note: shut up and listen, it's just gorgeous! step on it or not, it's beautiful. but when u step on it be prepared to jizz ur pants. seriously if i see the car on the road ima shut mine off to listen to the merc haha.

overall: i can see why a 50 year old with kids would buy it, but in all honesty i felt bad for my cousin for spending the money on it. didnt tell him any of that though. the car simply make the m5 feel like a go-kart. dont ask me what packages he had, i have no idea. the guy's been getting E class for like 20 years, to him ordering a car is like going to in-n-out: "give me number 2 please"

[shchow]

I test drove the W212 E63 about a month ago.
My impression was quite different than yours. I found the steering was very precise, just about on par with my M5, better than the CTS-V. The acceleration was BRUTAL!
I thought the recent comparison between the E63, CTS-V, and XF-R was spot on.
However, I do agree that the exhaust note is to die for!
Since the F10 M5 won't be out for a few years, I most likely will be getting the W212 E63.

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by shchow

I test drove the W212 E63 about a month ago.
My impression was quite different than yours. I found the steering was very precise, just about on par with my M5, better than the CTS-V. The acceleration was BRUTAL!
I thought the recent comparison between the E63, CTS-V, and XF-R was spot on.
However, I do agree that the exhaust note is to die for!
Since the F10 M5 won't be out for a few years, I most likely will be getting the W212 E63.

wow that's very interesting. let's see... the car i drove was fully broken in maybe? there's no way i can say that steering was better than a toyota. the body roll in the car was like 2x the m5 (and i feel the m5 is a porker). the steering cant possibly be very precise, it's a huge car. there's no way i felt like the 'sport' mode of servotronic

[stickypaws]

Originally Posted by !Xoible

i miss the previous E63 engine, that thing used to shove me in my seat.

It's the same motor

Originally Posted by !Xoible

i found the older gen E63/E55 and even the C63 a lot more precise.

The C63 has a different suspension (no rear airmatic) and steering rack. The E55 has less precise steering over the W211 E63. The W212 E63 has a 14:1 ratio, +20% quicker over the W211 E63. So it's in your head.

Originally Posted by !Xoible

u cant go to manual mode using the shifter

Of course you can. But you have to set it on manual. There's a reason for that. Think about it.

Originally Posted by !Xoible

that starts it in 2nd gear, very slow to shift, and very smooth but does have the jerk of an automatic.

There is no "jerk of an automatic." It's not "slow" to shift, it simply shifts at lower rpm points.

Originally Posted by !Xoible

ere's a 's' mode (sport) which i didnt feel was significant enough to have its own category. shifts a tad faster and starts the car in 1st gear.

It doesn't shift 'faster' it simply shifts at higher rpms. The transmission is adaptive. You have to train it.

Originally Posted by !Xoible

and what i mean by that is speedometer goes to infiniti

Infinity? As in forever?

I took the W212 E63 on a test run on the El Toro Airfield (they put up a track with cones, so we were going WOT and hard cornering, etc.) in a special AMG invite and my impression is much closer to shchow's post.

But your description of the new body styling is correct. The rear end is awkward.

[footie]

I have to agree with both Stickypaws and shchow because the impression I got was a very precise handling car for it's size, better than the RS6 and on par if not better than the M5. Ride is another remarkable thing considering the handling, it's something that Mercedes seem capable of producing with their big models better than just about all others (possible exception being Jaguar).

I wasn't won over by the interior, not the flowing manner of BMW and Audi, nor as functional either.

P.S.
Great seats.

[MikeG_C63_AMG]

Originally Posted by stickypaws

It's the same motor



The C63 has a different suspension (no rear airmatic) and steering rack. The E55 has less precise steering over the W211 E63. The W212 E63 has a 14:1 ratio, +20% quicker over the W211 E63. So it's in your head.



Of course you can. But you have to set it on manual. There's a reason for that. Think about it.



There is no "jerk of an automatic." It's not "slow" to shift, it simply shifts at lower rpm points.



It doesn't shift 'faster' it simply shifts at higher rpms. The transmission is adaptive. You have to train it.



Infinity? As in forever?

I took the W212 E63 on a test run on the El Toro Airfield (they put up a track with cones, so we were going WOT and hard cornering, etc.) in a special AMG invite and my impression is much closer to shchow's post.

But your description of the new body styling is correct. The rear end is awkward.

Looks like the teacher taught the student a lesson here.

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by stickypaws

It's the same motor

it's not! it's slightly changed, torque and hp numbers arent the same. maybe it's the same but tweaked, maybe the feel comes from the difference in gearing.


The C63 has a different suspension (no rear airmatic) and steering rack. The E55 has less precise steering over the W211 E63. The W212 E63 has a 14:1 ratio, +20% quicker over the W211 E63. So it's in your head.



Of course you can. But you have to set it on manual. There's a reason for that. Think about it.
the point was there's no way to go to manual with the shifter! DOH. think how retarded that is dude


There is no "jerk of an automatic." It's not "slow" to shift, it simply shifts at lower rpm points.
it's slow to react to the paddles, there's a HUGE delay, even more than 335's steptronic delay.


It doesn't shift 'faster' it simply shifts at higher rpms. The transmission is adaptive. You have to train it.



Infinity? As in forever?
yah shit it's all screwed in my head now


I took the W212 E63 on a test run on the El Toro Airfield (they put up a track with cones, so we were going WOT and hard cornering, etc.) in a special AMG invite and my impression is much closer to shchow's post.

But your description of the new body styling is correct. The rear end is awkward.

inline.

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by MikeG_C63_AMG

Looks like the teacher taught the student a lesson here.

DOH! he owns one, what do you expect... your car is just as bad when it comes to handling/steering

[footie]

Originally Posted by !Xoible

DOH! he owns one, what do you expect... your car is just as bad when it comes to handling/steering

In the category that the E63amg is in I think it's probably the best balanced car with regards to handling and ride and that includes the Panamera which though is slightly better in grip is actually worse in ride.

If you are comparing to an M3 which you appear to be doing then obviously it won't match up, but then it shouldn't have to, after all it isn't a sports saloon/coupe weighing 400kgs less.

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by footie

In the category that the E63amg is in I think it's probably the best balanced car with regards to handling and ride and that includes the Panamera which though is slightly better in grip is actually worse in ride.

If you are comparing to an M3 which you appear to be doing then obviously it won't match up, but then it shouldn't have to, after all it isn't a sports saloon/coupe weighing 400kgs less.

yes, if you read the title and my post you will realize i said i am comparing it to the 2 cars i drive almost daily. the m3 and the m5...

[MikeG_C63_AMG]

Originally Posted by !Xoible

DOH! he owns one, what do you expect... your car is just as bad when it comes to handling/steering

Pass this guy another glass of Koolaid.

[stickypaws]

Originally Posted by footie

In the category that the E63amg is in I think it's probably the best balanced car with regards to handling and ride and that includes the Panamera which though is slightly better in grip is actually worse in ride.

If you are comparing to an M3 which you appear to be doing then obviously it won't match up, but then it shouldn't have to, after all it isn't a sports saloon/coupe weighing 400kgs less.

You're correct. It's an Autobahn comfort car. A cruising car with a softer and smoother ride but an under 13 (stock) car with plenty of real world usable torque. And with a chassis that still allows for good handling unlike many other comfort cars. (btw, I travel up to the Bay Area often and it's a well-behaved long distance car with 22-23 mpg on 80 mph cruise control.)

That's what it was designed as, nothing more and nothing less.

fwiw, TopGear pitted the M5 and E63 against each other and while (as we would all expect) the M5 came in as the better handling car, the E63 was picked as the better driver's car as an all around street car. They felt the M5 was a "bit of a pain in the arse" to drive as a daily in comparison. The tranny and the suspension was more comfortable in the E63.

Choose your poison. That's what it's all about.

I chose my poison only because it compliments a super stiff P-car and it works quite nicely as a DD. If I had a M3 I personally wouldn't get a M5 as a stablemate. M3 and a 7er sounds better to me, imho.

My next car may be the more civilized F10 version of the M5, we'll see. Lots of great choices out there (BMW, AMG, Jag, etc..)

[footie]

That Topgear test was not the latest E63. After testing it I came away with the impression that the new car was at least as good as the M5 in the handling department if not even better. And what a noise it makes, something that none of the others have quite matched yet.

I also think it's quite an attractive looking car from the outside, but the interior though well made is as welcoming as a coffin.

[stickypaws]

Originally Posted by footie

That Topgear test was not the latest E63. After testing it I came away with the impression that the new car was at least as good as the M5 in the handling department if not even better. And what a noise it makes, something that none of the others have quite matched yet.

I also think it's quite an attractive looking car from the outside, but the interior though well made is as welcoming as a coffin.

Yes, you're right, the test was with the W211. I imagine the W212 would get higher points with the new chassis (which is a bit more similar to the W204 C63)

You're right about the interior, too. It's not very inviting. The Napa leather on the W211 E63s is nicer than the W212 leather, too, imho. I don't mind the look and stance of the car, but I'm not enthralled with the rear tail lights.

fwiw, Clarkson bashed the W212 design.

The noise it makes is great and it has downshift blips. It also sounds nice during upshifts.

Here it is farting in AMG race mode:

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[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by MikeG_C63_AMG

Pass this guy another glass of Koolaid.

all im saying is you find it impressive because you're used to that kind of feel...

[footie]

Originally Posted by !Xoible

all im saying is you find it impressive because you're used to that kind of feel...

Don't agree, when put into context against it's rivals the new E63 IS impressive. You are simply basing your opinion against a car several hundred kilos lighter, smaller and with a lower centre of gravity and expecting it to perform the same way which simply it can't.

[shchow]

I was very impressed with the 2010 E63.
Arguably, it is the best sports sedan in its class right now, with maybe the Panamera challenging for that honor. It is better than the E60 M5...

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by footie

Don't agree, when put into context against it's rivals the new E63 IS impressive. You are simply basing your opinion against a car several hundred kilos lighter, smaller and with a lower centre of gravity and expecting it to perform the same way which simply it can't.

... and hence the disclaimer. get over it. the m5 btw is not several hundred kilos lighter than the E63, and if it is then

[graider]

don't feel the look of the e63

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by !Xoible

Well not reall a "vs." thread, but since i come from a E92 M3, E60 M5 my quick review is based on these 2 cars.

i mostly played with S+ since the owner recommended it, then naturally got aggrevated and switched to M mode on the way back. here's what i found:

i miss the previous E63 engine, that thing used to shove me in my seat.

steering: hello camry! literally. i found the older gen E63/E55 and even the C63 a lot more precise. heck even the older E320 had more precise steering. it's so light, wobbly, wiggly, u name it.

Nice review and thanks, but, you do mean old E55 engine (all 63 engines in the E are the same) and also, C55 AMG since there is no "old" C63, there is only the new one. Anyway, nice review although one thing I would add, I find Mercs at speed are the most stable platforms I have ever driven (and thank God I have driven a hell of a lot of nice exotics). I am also a tad surprised about the steering, I find it not to shabby in the C63, not quit the M, but not too shabby and for sure better than the older C´s etc... that suffered from absolutely abhorrent understeer.

[footie]

Originally Posted by !Xoible

... and hence the disclaimer. get over it. the m5 btw is not several hundred kilos lighter than the E63, and if it is then

The several hundred kilos different was directed at the M3 as you well knew. And in any case the members that have piped up who have the M5 all disagree with your opinion, as you I.

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by KonigsTiger

Nice review and thanks, but, you do mean old E55 engine (all 63 engines in the E are the same) and also, C55 AMG since there is no "old" C63, there is only the new one. Anyway, nice review although one thing I would add, I find Mercs at speed are the most stable platforms I have ever driven (and thank God I have driven a hell of a lot of nice exotics). I am also a tad surprised about the steering, I find it not to shabby in the C63, not quit the M, but not too shabby and for sure better than the older C´s etc... that suffered from absolutely abhorrent understeer.

i never said old c63.. if i did must have been a typo or something.

and it's a different engine in the new E63! at least it was tweaked. they got more hp and more torque now.