BMW M3 vs. Audi S5

[footie]

Well it definitely looks like the board is split as to who makes the better interior. I happen to prefer the Audi inside and out but much prefer the driving experience from the M3, I just wished there was a way of combining Audi's style flair and choice of materials with BMW's driving pleasure.

I look forward to trying both the new RS5 with it's trick diff to see if it adds some of the driving pleasure I so like in the M3 and also the TT-RS which I reckon will trump both of them on the thrill of driving but ultimately lack the highend straightline speed.

Unless to are willing to move away from German products you options are very limited on improving what you get from either Audi or BMW, unless your pockets are deep and you can afford a Porsche or RUF.

[Georgeair]

Originally Posted by slammedm3

test drove the S5 right before ordering the M3.

It was slower, it felt unattached to the road like a BENZ (but better).
Beautiful inside and out, but so happy I went with M3.

And yes, they are going to 6cylinder Turbo next year I believe

This is my story to the letter. Loved the look and interior of the S5, but it just wasn't in the same league once the starter turned.

My research led me to understand the turbo S5 is slated for 2011 model year, so there's still another year of V-8 goodness available, I believe.

[jackolo]

Wow, it never even occurred to me to look at the S5 when I was doing my shopping. Definitely no regrets here after reading some of these comparisons.

Also, I guess I'm one of the few that thinks the E9x M3 is better looking then the Audi. I do like the Audi interior better though.

[hexadecim8]

S5 is a car you would rather ride around in

M3 is a car you would rather drive around in

[SoreHead]

I couldn't disagree more on the looks. Both cars are very colour specific though.
I find the A5 and S5 really bland to look at. The pictures of the RS5 are different. I think it's butched up enough to sort that. It's almost like an A4 has slightly melted or something. A little lip spoiler and some bigger wheels (that you can spec on the A5 too)

On the other hand the M3 coupe in the right colour (dark for me) is perfectly balanced shape with just enough pumping up to give it a nice purposeful look. In fact I've never liked the look of any BMW (M1 is the exception) until I went looking for a wagon for my wife and spotted my car in the dealership. I loved the shape.

Also the S5 is waaaay overpriced (66k compare to 72k for the M3). If they keep this pricing level the RS5 will be 15k more than the M3.

Audi have the best looking dash alright but the current M3 is way nicer than it was in the past. Mind you I have the Aluminum pieces instead of the black so maybe that brightens it up.

(I typed this yesterday then forgot to hit post. easily distracted apparently)

[zacbol]

Dunno how much it matters to most people, but irrespective of driving feel (or lack thereof), whether one car has a nicer interior, or price there is one reason I would not get an S5: Audis seem to have pretty bad reliability in general.

The few people I've known that have had Audis have had them at the dealer almost as often as in their garages. Not that BMWs are great in that regard compared to say Lexus (and the 6 and 7 series seem to be pretty terrible), but from what I've seen Audi is noticeably worse. A few other data points (Consumer Reports, etc) seem to support this.

I'm sure plenty of people never have problems, but there are enough data points to keep me away.

[footie]

Originally Posted by zacbol

Dunno how much it matters to most people, but irrespective of driving feel (or lack thereof), whether one car has a nicer interior, or price there is one reason I would not get an S5: Audis seem to have pretty bad reliability in general.

The few people I've known that have had Audis have had them at the dealer almost as often as in their garages. Not that BMWs are great in that regard compared to say Lexus (and the 6 and 7 series seem to be pretty terrible), but from what I've seen Audi is noticeably worse. A few other data points (Consumer Reports, etc) seem to support this.

I'm sure plenty of people never have problems, but there are enough data points to keep me away.

Any car or car brand is only as good as the work carried out to fix the fault you came in to get repaired. I don't agree that Audis are any better or worse than BMW on this front, but my experience is based on an extremely good/great Audi dealer, if the dealer is rubbish then chances are you will have an awful ownership experience.

Most of the bad comments on this board and others seem to center on Audi of America so clearly Audi have a lot of work as a company to bring them up to the level that Europe enjoys.

As for Audi's reliability, well I can only speak from my personal experiences of owning 6 Audis, 4 BMWs, 4 Porsches and a other mix of other brands. The Porsches were completely problem free, with the Audis I suffered two problems, one being a rear shock knocking and a rattle behind the dash and only both occasions the faults were fixed swiftly and professionally, of the 4 BMWs I have had 3 with faults, in one it had 2 ABS sensor failures that again were fixed quickly, in another there was sunroof leak that took a total of 3 trips and a replaced roof cloth, while the final one is on going and it's with the M3 and it's troublesome gearbox glitches that after 2 trips and 2 upgrades is as bad as ever. I will say that the BMW dealers (two) have always been helpful and professional in much the same way as either the Porsche or Audi dealers have so maybe in my neck of the woods with a premium brand you really do get a premium standard of service.

My opinion is done blame the brand for the failings of their dealers. Best voice your complaints to Audi direct and hopefully they will listen and make changes promptly.

[Sam12345]

lol current S5 and e9x M3 are not comparible perfomance....

looks is personal prefrence, i would take an m3 ANYDAY tho

[SoreHead]

Originally Posted by Sam12345

lol current S5 and e9x M3 are not comparible perfomance....

Exactly. And I don't think Audi intended it to be. I believe the S5 was to compete with the 335i coupe. Only problem is they've gone wayward on the pricing so that the RS5 will be a huge amount more expensive than the M3 and I don't think will help them sell it. It needs to be very similar pricing especially as it'll be switching to a 6cylinder with turbos. The V8 will be perceived as better I believe.

[footie]

Originally Posted by SoreHead

Exactly. And I don't think Audi intended it to be. I believe the S5 was to compete with the 335i coupe. Only problem is they've gone wayward on the pricing so that the RS5 will be a huge amount more expensive than the M3 and I don't think will help them sell it. It needs to be very similar pricing especially as it'll be switching to a 6cylinder with turbos. The V8 will be perceived as better I believe.

Almost ever magazine is now switching from the RS5 having turbos to now continuing to use a big N/A v8 motor, they also reckon that it will have at least 450hp (maybe more) and a minimum of 450Nm of torque.

It should be able to beat the M3 at most things, including cornering grip and thus entry speed, speed through the corner and exit speed all should be greater, all of which are great but if the RS6 is any indication of pricing then we can expect it to be at least 10% more than the equivalent M (europe prices) and probably a lot more in the US which is quite a sizable difference.

But none of the above really matter because the chances of us lot getting the RS5 is nil.

[Neil McRae]

Originally Posted by footie

Almost ever magazine is now switching from the RS5 having turbos to now continuing to use a big N/A v8 motor, they also reckon that it will have at least 450hp (maybe more) and a minimum of 450Nm of torque.

It should be able to beat the M3 at most things, including cornering grip and thus entry speed, speed through the corner and exit speed all should be greater, all of which are great but if the RS6 is any indication of pricing then we can expect it to be at least 10% more than the equivalent M (europe prices) and probably a lot more in the US which is quite a sizable difference.

But none of the above really matter because the chances of us lot getting the RS5 is nil.

I doubt it will beat the M3 at any type of corner or handling. Unless they make significant modification to the suspenstion from the S5.

[bim14]

Originally Posted by footie

I changed from a S5 to an M3 so I might be able to explain how each are good in their own way and which points are better for each.

I completely agree with you that on looks the S5 is better, if you didn't know much about cars I bet such people would place the Audi that more exotic and probably the quick car based on looks alone. Inside again it's the Audi hold all the cards, it's the one which feels the more expensive and special.

Driving each is remarkably similar below 6/10th, and if anyway I would rate the S5 the more enjoyable for the daily duties of urban/motorway driving, it's remarkably comfortable and has the better engine note until the M3 hits it's highs over 6.5k.

The real thing that separates the M3 is when you really start to push both cars, then the better steering feel is noticed, plus the connection between throttle and brake seems better balanced. We all know it's quicker but this again is only noticed when you use all of the revs in the M3 when it really starts to fly. The chassis in the M3 can cope better with bumps at speed and doesn't suffer understeer at anything remotely close to legal speeds, where as the S5 will start to understeer slightly but it counters this with much better wet weather ability.

Both are great cars but totally different but each are very appealing to own with the Audi better suited to the cruising and the M3 for the blast through the mountains.

lol....i changed from an S5 to an m3 also, the s5 was one cool car. I got so many looks in that car, but my m3 is melbourne so it does its fair share of standing out too

[footie]

Originally Posted by Neil McRae

I doubt it will beat the M3 at any type of corner or handling. Unless they make significant modification to the suspenstion from the S5.

Just look at the history of the RS model compare to an S model and you would know that the answer would be a definite YES. The last RS4 was difference from the S4 in that it had alloy bonnet and probably front wings, it used DRC suspension (brilliant idea) to keep in check such things as dive and lean in corners thus working the rubber more evenly. It was night and day different to the S4 as has been the case with every RS model.

The previous RS4 was quicker on the track than the E46 M3, the RS6 is quicker on the track than the M5 and the same will be true for the new RS5, it's called progress.

There's another thing, the torque vectoring diff which should bring the rear end into the action more than ever before and help turn-in.

All in all it will be a great car but at a price.

[SoreHead]

I don't think there's any doubt it'll be faster everywhere than the M3 but I still think they've gone off the rails with their pricing.

I would pay for the RS6 Estate though. Saw one in Ireland before I moved over here and it looks fantastic in the flesh. And 572bhp V10. Oh baby.

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by footie

I changed from a S5 to an M3 so I might be able to explain how each are good in their own way and which points are better for each.

I completely agree with you that on looks the S5 is better, if you didn't know much about cars I bet such people would place the Audi that more exotic and probably the quick car based on looks alone. Inside again it's the Audi hold all the cards, it's the one which feels the more expensive and special.

Driving each is remarkably similar below 6/10th, and if anyway I would rate the S5 the more enjoyable for the daily duties of urban/motorway driving, it's remarkably comfortable and has the better engine note until the M3 hits it's highs over 6.5k.

The real thing that separates the M3 is when you really start to push both cars, then the better steering feel is noticed, plus the connection between throttle and brake seems better balanced. We all know it's quicker but this again is only noticed when you use all of the revs in the M3 when it really starts to fly. The chassis in the M3 can cope better with bumps at speed and doesn't suffer understeer at anything remotely close to legal speeds, where as the S5 will start to understeer slightly but it counters this with much better wet weather ability.

Both are great cars but totally different but each are very appealing to own with the Audi better suited to the cruising and the M3 for the blast through the mountains.

Very well said Footy, +1!

[footie]

Originally Posted by SoreHead

I don't think there's any doubt it'll be faster everywhere than the M3 but I still think they've gone off the rails with their pricing.

I would pay for the RS6 Estate though. Saw one in Ireland before I moved over here and it looks fantastic in the flesh. And 572bhp V10. Oh baby.

A shame you didn't get to drive the RS6, never has a car's engine impressed me as much as that one. Also I'm an old-school Audi fan because I think all RS models should be Estate cars, anything else should carry the new R badge like the R8.

BTW what part of Ireland were you from?

[SoreHead]

Originally Posted by footie

A shame you didn't get to drive the RS6, never has a car's engine impressed me as much as that one. Also I'm an old-school Audi fan because I think all RS models should be Estate cars, anything else should carry the new R badge like the R8.

BTW what part of Ireland were you from?

Hey footie.
I'm from Dublin. Malahide. You?

I couldn't agree more on the estates. I'm in Canada 8 weeks or so now and you just don't see them. The wife ordered a 328xi Touring which we picked up yesterday. The whole dealership was out for a look because noone here specs up an estate. She had a cracking set of 17s and she wanted the sport pack and seats and no wood. They were all confused when she was listing what she wanted and now they all love it. There's no choice on engine with the estate though so it was 328 or nothing. It's nice. What I do like that we don't get in Ireland is the 4wd. It's great. I would love it on the M3. We drove back from the dealership in the pissing rain yesterday and there's a little twisty road before her parents place that I would have had no chance of losing her on. She loves it too. It's the dark grey with tints and a fucking huge sunroof. Nice car.

I used to think cars were cheap up North and over the water but jayzus they're nearly free here.

[footie]

Originally Posted by SoreHead

Hey footie.
I'm from Dublin. Malahide. You?

I couldn't agree more on the estates. I'm in Canada 8 weeks or so now and you just don't see them. The wife ordered a 328xi Touring which we picked up yesterday. The whole dealership was out for a look because noone here specs up an estate. She had a cracking set of 17s and she wanted the sport pack and seats and no wood. They were all confused when she was listing what she wanted and now they all love it. There's no choice on engine with the estate though so it was 328 or nothing. It's nice. What I do like that we don't get in Ireland is the 4wd. It's great. I would love it on the M3. We drove back from the dealership in the pissing rain yesterday and there's a little twisty road before her parents place that I would have had no chance of losing her on. She loves it too. It's the dark grey with tints and a fucking huge sunroof. Nice car.

I used to think cars were cheap up North and over the water but jayzus they're nearly free here.

I live between two towns up North (between Ballymena and Coleraine).

Yeah AWD is great in the rain and snow but like everything it has to be treated with respect because though you get mountain more grip and traction in acceleration you get zero advantage in braking with only a slight advantage in engine braking.

I don't understand why our fellow American can't see it's benefit, maybe they only drive these cars in the dry the majority of the time because cars are so cheap that they have another daily drive when conditions aren't ideal.

I love the M3 but it's pleasure is like a pendulum, ranging from brilliant in a sunny, bone dry day to OK when dull, cold day to 'why the F#@k did I chance from AWD' when it's chucking it down and the roads are greasy. I know I will change back to a Quattro of sorts when my time with the M3 is over but I won't have regretted my time with the car because it truly is a magnificent machine with a connection between the throttle, steering and brakes that you really need to look to a Porsche to find anything better.

[SoreHead]

Originally Posted by footie

I live between two towns up North (between Ballymena and Coleraine).

Yeah AWD is great in the rain and snow but like everything it has to be treated with respect because though you get mountain more grip and traction in acceleration you get zero advantage in braking with only a slight advantage in engine braking.

I don't understand why our fellow American can't see it's benefit, maybe they only drive these cars in the dry the majority of the time because cars are so cheap that they have another daily drive when conditions aren't ideal.

I love the M3 but it's pleasure is like a pendulum, ranging from brilliant in a sunny, bone dry day to OK when dull, cold day to 'why the F#@k did I chance from AWD' when it's chucking it down and the roads are greasy. I know I will change back to a Quattro of sorts when my time with the M3 is over but I won't have regretted my time with the car because it truly is a magnificent machine with a connection between the throttle, steering and brakes that you really need to look to a Porsche to find anything better.

Maybe a nice 997 Turbo. That's has AWD

[footie]

Originally Posted by SoreHead

Maybe a nice 997 Turbo. That's has AWD

I did get a C4S out for a weekend once and though it's a lovely car and all that, it just didn't hit the spot, maybe because it was a 996 and not the later 997 model which does feel better built with much better quality of materials but it's also much better tied down to the road, especially at the front end.

The brother has his heart set on a 911(997) and we have been looking around at some nice examples but I continue to come away from these test drives and step back into the M3 and feel I am in the better car, especially if it's a daily driver. Only one car really pulled my heart strings after a test drive and I wished I have bought it at the time and that car was the RS4, I hope the next one isn't much more expensive than the M3 because it's the car I happen to have my heart set on.

[SoreHead]

Or you could head down to traynors in Armagh and see what they have back on crashed but repairable. You could get something tasty as a second car

They had a cracking silver Noble the last time I was there with front wing damage. Looked around 10k to get done properly but the car was 25k less than market value.

[BMW750]

I personally would cop the m3