Wonderfull Upgrade!

jeff4598 · 03-08-2010, 08:39 PM

Who would have thunk it: I have realized a MAJOR improvement in sound by changing the connection for my I-pod. I had bought an "audiophile" $12 minijack wire for my daughter and borrowed it for my car and found you can leave the usb to I-pod wire in and remove the minijack plug from the car outlet and replace it with the new wire and plug the other end into the headphone jack of the I-pod.The I-pod is still controlled thru I -drive but the sound is transformed: midrange is much more clear and natural, treble is extended and has much more harmonic information and bass is not thump/thump impressive but is much more musical with much lower distortion. This is the kind of improvement I would expect from all new speakers. Of course it only benefits I-pod sound. I was VERY down on "premium" sound but now this is the best car audio I've ever had. Wow. So I my daughter needs her wire back so I ordered a wire that claims to sound great from RAM sound(on-line) and hope (for $17) it sounds even beteer.

koxal · 03-08-2010, 08:48 PM

can you post a picture...

jeff4598 · 03-08-2010, 09:02 PM

Sorry re pic ( don't know how to)but: unplug round plug from car-plug wire with round plug into that hole and the round plug on the other end of your new wire into the round hole on the top of your I-pod. Better wire helps the sound-may also help that audio signal does not pass thru OEM wire that has audio signal travel next to control function signal in USB portion of OEM wire.

jeff4598 · 03-08-2010, 09:19 PM

Sorry re pic ( don't know how to)but: unplug round plug from car-plug wire with round plug into that hole and the round plug on the other end of your new wire into the round hole on the top of your I-pod. Better wire helps the sound-may also help that audio signal does not pass thru OEM wire that has audio signal travel next to control function signal in USB portion of OEM wire.

roller · 03-08-2010, 09:31 PM

Hmmm.. sounds interesting I'll have to try it.

haze gray · 03-08-2010, 09:35 PM

Me too. I'd like to hear the improvement.

jeff4598 · 03-17-2010, 08:32 PM

As the cable breaks in it just gets more and more impressive-vocals are super clear great overtone quality in midrange and treble and esp on Reggae cuts it sounds at long last as if it has a SUBWOOFER! And the bass sounds like music not noise. Strongly suggest this before anyone spends money on components-RAM electronic on web ~$23 delivered-make sure to scroll down to order the one foot version for best sound and lowest cost.

kmarei · 03-17-2010, 08:50 PM

i just hope its not that you have an EQ setting activated (EQ only works on headphone, not line out)
as the signal coming from the headphone plug is significantly lower quality than the line out at the dock connector. First of all its being amplified to drive a headphone,
Line out is unamplified.
so i am very surprised at your results

lugnut · 03-18-2010, 12:00 AM

Hate to ruin this...

but it sounds like you simply are using the EQ feature of your ipod. Essentially, you are using your car as a pair of headphones. You could simply purchase a $3 male-to-male 3.5mm cable from radioshack and accomplish the same thing.

And FYI, cables don't break-in, no matter how long you use them.

Glad you enjoy the bolder sound though!

aajami · 03-18-2010, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff4598

As the cable breaks in it just gets more and more impressive

How on Earth do you break in an audio cable??

quality_sound · 03-18-2010, 05:22 AM

You don't.

jeff4598 · 03-18-2010, 09:46 AM

You made me check-NO the equilization on my I-POD is FLAT. I have played with the car's eqilizier and found nothing aproaching this improvement- it's not a tone thing it's a MASSIVE quality difference.

Why? Guess #1- keeping the audio signal seperated from the digital control signals. Guess #2- The stereo may do better with the higher level amplified output.

I know that people BELIEVE cables don't break in but as 35 year music lover and audiophile I can tell you from repeated personal experience that they most profoundly DO. Just go to a GOOD audio store and see if they will play a system with broken in cables and then replace ONE peice of wire (even an AC cord) with the same model fresh out of the box and you will hear a bright, muddled, unfocused, uncoordinated mess. Most wires take 100 hours and some much more. I realize it's like trying to argue religon: if a belief makes someone feel safer they will not give it up for logic or evidence so that's cool.

This post is not an ego thing for me I sincerely wanted to share a way to massively improve your M3's sound for a few bucks- trying to help the community. Anyone in NJ can come by and listen if they want.

kmarei · 03-18-2010, 09:49 AM

Break in is for car engines
not speakers or cables
unless you can show me otherwise
the only thing Audiophile about this cable is the name
and the effect it has on the buyers mind

quality_sound · 03-18-2010, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff4598

You made me check-NO the equilization on my I-POD is FLAT. I have played with the car's eqilizier and found nothing aproaching this improvement- it's not a tone thing it's a MASSIVE quality difference.

Why? Guess #1- keeping the audio signal seperated from the digital control signals. Guess #2- The stereo may do better with the higher level amplified output.

I know that people BELIEVE cables don't break in but as 35 year music lover and audiophile I can tell you from repeated personal experience that they most profoundly DO. Just go to a GOOD audio store and see if they will play a system with broken in cables and then replace ONE peice of wire (even an AC cord) with the same model fresh out of the box and you will hear a bright, muddled, unfocused, uncoordinated mess. Most wires take 100 hours and some much more. I realize it's like trying to argue religon: if a belief makes someone feel safer they will not give it up for logic or evidence so that's cool.

This post is not an ego thing for me I sincerely wanted to share a way to massively improve your M3's sound for a few bucks- trying to help the community. Anyone in NJ can come by and listen if they want.

Cables do NOT break in, they deteriorate. That's it. If someone thinks otherwise they're either selling cables or justifying buying overpriced cables. This does not apply to things like MIT cables with networks on them obviously but wire is wire.

jeff4598 · 03-18-2010, 12:28 PM

And Camry drivers think we are nuts cause "a car's a car". Wires have dielectric insulation that reacts to current passing thru as does the crystal structure of the conductors-And the stuff in MIT boxes...well those components are on an electrical level very small , very elaborate WIRES!

If the Camry driver TRIES an M3 and can't tell the difference fine but just believing... like I said.

quality_sound · 03-18-2010, 01:28 PM

Crystal structure? It's copper not crystal, there is no crystal structure. And the dielectric does react...at the same level all the time. It doesn't change over time and, despite what some would have you believe, skin effect occurs at frequencies WELL beyond our hearing limits so any effect would be moot anyway.

Trust me when I tell you it's bunk. I spent a great many years making a LOT of money selling overpriced cables to people that though they could equalize their system with their cables.

Keep this in mind, this is the same market that also sells "crystals" (read: bag of rocks) to put in your room to "absorb and redirect" sound and all kind of other such nonsense and a similar "product" to attach to the your signal cables.

I'll go with science on this one.

adc · 03-18-2010, 03:46 PM

I'll tell you what though, with my crappy stock HiFi system, perhaps using the iPod EQ modes is well worth it. I'll stop my my RadioShack and give it a shot tonight...

ScotyH · 03-18-2010, 06:47 PM

Perhaps we could use these to further enhance the iPod experience?

http://www.audiotweaks.com/reviews/c...ors/page01.htm

kmarei · 03-18-2010, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff4598

...as does the crystal structure of the conductors

would that be crystal meth?

kmarei · 03-18-2010, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff4598

Just go to a GOOD audio store and see if they will play a system with broken in cables and then replace ONE peice of wire (even an AC cord) with the same model fresh out of the box and you will hear a bright, muddled, unfocused, uncoordinated mess. Most wires take 100 hours and some much more.

so the cable you're saying made a huge difference was out of the box?
or had you already broke it in for 100 hours?

jeff4598 · 03-18-2010, 08:51 PM

The wire I borrowed from my daughter sounded way better than stock set-up. The one I bought subsequently sounded better in some ways less good in others and has improved steadily over the 12 or so hours I have used it. It now sounds quite a bit better than the first upgraded wire did.

I'm sure people sell expensive wire that is garbage but some is the real thing and most certainly good cable is NOT a tonal factor-differences include signal to noise ratio, dynamics both in intensity and cohesiveness ie do sounds change in the way they do in real music.In fact good cable design goes to great lengths to avoid influencing tone in any way. Metal IS crystaline, dielectrics change and they DO affect sonics- it is well understood that factors outside of the range of hearing inflluence what we DO hear. If that was not the case how could high resolution music sources sound better than CD's when CD's already span a frequency range at the outer limits of human hearing ?

People dont believe that the type of feet under a disc transport unit that outputs only ones and zeros to a DAC can have a sonic effect but they do as does the digital cable transfering the ones and zeros-several years ago I tested 5 or 6 such wires and they all sounded differently from one another.

I promised myself I woudnt argue so I'm done.

quality_sound · 03-19-2010, 06:56 AM

Of course the feet make a difference, they provide a more stable platform so there is less jitter.

I understand that signals outside the range of hearing affect sound, however since a 44.1KHz signal (normal cd) is low passed at 22.05KHz you're losing some of the top end right off the bat. If you sample higher then the LP filter freq gets moved up as well which is why DVDs and SACDs sound better. I'ts not because of the magic sand taped to your signal cables.

Here's a great article on skin effect:
http://www.audioholics.com/education...speaker-cables

And one on cable break-in:
http://www.audioholics.com/education...-psychological

Basically, cable break-in is a marketing tool, plain and simple.

03-08-2010, 08:39 PM	#1
jeff4598 Captain 172 Rep 676 Posts Drives: 2019 M2C HS, DCT, much Dinan Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: new jersey iTrader: (0)	Wonderfull Upgrade! Who would have thunk it: I have realized a MAJOR improvement in sound by changing the connection for my I-pod. I had bought an "audiophile" $12 minijack wire for my daughter and borrowed it for my car and found you can leave the usb to I-pod wire in and remove the minijack plug from the car outlet and replace it with the new wire and plug the other end into the headphone jack of the I-pod.The I-pod is still controlled thru I -drive but the sound is transformed: midrange is much more clear and natural, treble is extended and has much more harmonic information and bass is not thump/thump impressive but is much more musical with much lower distortion. This is the kind of improvement I would expect from all new speakers. Of course it only benefits I-pod sound. I was VERY down on "premium" sound but now this is the best car audio I've ever had. Wow. So I my daughter needs her wire back so I ordered a wire that claims to sound great from RAM sound(on-line) and hope (for $17) it sounds even beteer.
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03-08-2010, 09:02 PM	#3
jeff4598 Captain 172 Rep 676 Posts Drives: 2019 M2C HS, DCT, much Dinan Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: new jersey iTrader: (0)	Sorry re pic ( don't know how to)but: unplug round plug from car-plug wire with round plug into that hole and the round plug on the other end of your new wire into the round hole on the top of your I-pod. Better wire helps the sound-may also help that audio signal does not pass thru OEM wire that has audio signal travel next to control function signal in USB portion of OEM wire.
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03-08-2010, 09:19 PM	#4
jeff4598 Captain 172 Rep 676 Posts Drives: 2019 M2C HS, DCT, much Dinan Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: new jersey iTrader: (0)	Sorry re pic ( don't know how to)but: unplug round plug from car-plug wire with round plug into that hole and the round plug on the other end of your new wire into the round hole on the top of your I-pod. Better wire helps the sound-may also help that audio signal does not pass thru OEM wire that has audio signal travel next to control function signal in USB portion of OEM wire.
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03-08-2010, 09:31 PM	#5
roller Private First Class 10 Rep 164 Posts Drives: E92 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: OC, CA iTrader: (0)	Hmmm.. sounds interesting I'll have to try it.
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03-08-2010, 09:35 PM	#6
haze gray Second Lieutenant 5 Rep 264 Posts Drives: 2009 M3 Coupe / 2011 X5 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern Virginia iTrader: (0)	Me too. I'd like to hear the improvement.
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03-08-2010, 08:48 PM	#2
koxal Major 122 Rep 1,246 Posts Drives: 2015 LBB F85 X5M Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: North Jersey iTrader: (7) Garage List 2015 BMW X5M [0.00] 2010 BMW M3 [0.00] 2013 BMW M5 [0.00]	can you post a picture...
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03-17-2010, 08:32 PM	#7
jeff4598 Captain 172 Rep 676 Posts Drives: 2019 M2C HS, DCT, much Dinan Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: new jersey iTrader: (0)	update As the cable breaks in it just gets more and more impressive-vocals are super clear great overtone quality in midrange and treble and esp on Reggae cuts it sounds at long last as if it has a SUBWOOFER! And the bass sounds like music not noise. Strongly suggest this before anyone spends money on components-RAM electronic on web ~$23 delivered-make sure to scroll down to order the one foot version for best sound and lowest cost.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-17-2010, 08:50 PM	#8
kmarei Major General 689 Rep 6,845 Posts Drives: 2018 Audi RS5 coupe Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Reston, VA iTrader: (34) Garage List 2018 Audi RS5 [0.00]	i just hope its not that you have an EQ setting activated (EQ only works on headphone, not line out) as the signal coming from the headphone plug is significantly lower quality than the line out at the dock connector. First of all its being amplified to drive a headphone, Line out is unamplified. so i am very surprised at your results
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03-18-2010, 12:00 AM	#9
lugnut First Lieutenant 8 Rep 354 Posts Drives: 2008 E92 M3 Space/Fox Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Watchung, NJ iTrader: (0)	Hate to ruin this... but it sounds like you simply are using the EQ feature of your ipod. Essentially, you are using your car as a pair of headphones. You could simply purchase a $3 male-to-male 3.5mm cable from radioshack and accomplish the same thing. And FYI, cables don't break-in, no matter how long you use them. Glad you enjoy the bolder sound though! __________________ 18 XC90 T6 Inscription (Silver/Black) 16 981 GTS (All Black Everything) 12 E70 X5d Black Saphire/ Tobacco (RIP) 08 E92 M3 SG/Fox Red Gintani Race (sold), RG63 02 E46 M3 Cab Imola, E36 Z3 Atlanta Blue/Tan
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03-18-2010, 05:22 AM	#11
quality_sound 8 tracks of madness 62 Rep 2,735 Posts Drives: Slowly Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: At home iTrader: (1)	You don't.
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03-18-2010, 09:46 AM	#12
jeff4598 Captain 172 Rep 676 Posts Drives: 2019 M2C HS, DCT, much Dinan Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: new jersey iTrader: (0)	No, no, no.... You made me check-NO the equilization on my I-POD is FLAT. I have played with the car's eqilizier and found nothing aproaching this improvement- it's not a tone thing it's a MASSIVE quality difference. Why? Guess #1- keeping the audio signal seperated from the digital control signals. Guess #2- The stereo may do better with the higher level amplified output. I know that people BELIEVE cables don't break in but as 35 year music lover and audiophile I can tell you from repeated personal experience that they most profoundly DO. Just go to a GOOD audio store and see if they will play a system with broken in cables and then replace ONE peice of wire (even an AC cord) with the same model fresh out of the box and you will hear a bright, muddled, unfocused, uncoordinated mess. Most wires take 100 hours and some much more. I realize it's like trying to argue religon: if a belief makes someone feel safer they will not give it up for logic or evidence so that's cool. This post is not an ego thing for me I sincerely wanted to share a way to massively improve your M3's sound for a few bucks- trying to help the community. Anyone in NJ can come by and listen if they want.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-18-2010, 09:49 AM	#13
kmarei Major General 689 Rep 6,845 Posts Drives: 2018 Audi RS5 coupe Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Reston, VA iTrader: (34) Garage List 2018 Audi RS5 [0.00]	Break in is for car engines not speakers or cables unless you can show me otherwise the only thing Audiophile about this cable is the name and the effect it has on the buyers mind
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03-18-2010, 12:28 PM	#15
jeff4598 Captain 172 Rep 676 Posts Drives: 2019 M2C HS, DCT, much Dinan Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: new jersey iTrader: (0)	uh! And Camry drivers think we are nuts cause "a car's a car". Wires have dielectric insulation that reacts to current passing thru as does the crystal structure of the conductors-And the stuff in MIT boxes...well those components are on an electrical level very small , very elaborate WIRES! If the Camry driver TRIES an M3 and can't tell the difference fine but just believing... like I said.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-18-2010, 01:28 PM	#16
quality_sound 8 tracks of madness 62 Rep 2,735 Posts Drives: Slowly Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: At home iTrader: (1)	Crystal structure? It's copper not crystal, there is no crystal structure. And the dielectric does react...at the same level all the time. It doesn't change over time and, despite what some would have you believe, skin effect occurs at frequencies WELL beyond our hearing limits so any effect would be moot anyway. Trust me when I tell you it's bunk. I spent a great many years making a LOT of money selling overpriced cables to people that though they could equalize their system with their cables. Keep this in mind, this is the same market that also sells "crystals" (read: bag of rocks) to put in your room to "absorb and redirect" sound and all kind of other such nonsense and a similar "product" to attach to the your signal cables. I'll go with science on this one.
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03-18-2010, 03:46 PM	#17
adc Major General 2765 Rep 6,763 Posts Drives: 2018 F80 M3 ED Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: MD/DC iTrader: (12)	I'll tell you what though, with my crappy stock HiFi system, perhaps using the iPod EQ modes is well worth it. I'll stop my my RadioShack and give it a shot tonight... __________________ 2018 F80 Santorini 2019 Z4 3.0i 2022 X2 M35i
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03-18-2010, 06:47 PM	#18
ScotyH Bimmer me up 19 Rep 340 Posts Drives: 08 M3, 2010 GTR Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Edmonton,AB iTrader: (0)	Perhaps we could use these to further enhance the iPod experience? http://www.audiotweaks.com/reviews/c...ors/page01.htm
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03-18-2010, 08:51 PM	#21
jeff4598 Captain 172 Rep 676 Posts Drives: 2019 M2C HS, DCT, much Dinan Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: new jersey iTrader: (0)	The wire I borrowed from my daughter sounded way better than stock set-up. The one I bought subsequently sounded better in some ways less good in others and has improved steadily over the 12 or so hours I have used it. It now sounds quite a bit better than the first upgraded wire did. I'm sure people sell expensive wire that is garbage but some is the real thing and most certainly good cable is NOT a tonal factor-differences include signal to noise ratio, dynamics both in intensity and cohesiveness ie do sounds change in the way they do in real music.In fact good cable design goes to great lengths to avoid influencing tone in any way. Metal IS crystaline, dielectrics change and they DO affect sonics- it is well understood that factors outside of the range of hearing inflluence what we DO hear. If that was not the case how could high resolution music sources sound better than CD's when CD's already span a frequency range at the outer limits of human hearing ? People dont believe that the type of feet under a disc transport unit that outputs only ones and zeros to a DAC can have a sonic effect but they do as does the digital cable transfering the ones and zeros-several years ago I tested 5 or 6 such wires and they all sounded differently from one another. I promised myself I woudnt argue so I'm done.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-19-2010, 06:56 AM	#22
quality_sound 8 tracks of madness 62 Rep 2,735 Posts Drives: Slowly Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: At home iTrader: (1)	Of course the feet make a difference, they provide a more stable platform so there is less jitter. I understand that signals outside the range of hearing affect sound, however since a 44.1KHz signal (normal cd) is low passed at 22.05KHz you're losing some of the top end right off the bat. If you sample higher then the LP filter freq gets moved up as well which is why DVDs and SACDs sound better. I'ts not because of the magic sand taped to your signal cables. Here's a great article on skin effect: http://www.audioholics.com/education...speaker-cables And one on cable break-in: http://www.audioholics.com/education...-psychological Basically, cable break-in is a marketing tool, plain and simple.
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